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New guy. Here is my Cat


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Take a new sharping stone "that is level / flat" and carefully smooth the rusted surface on the block. It will only take a minute to correct the surface. I use the same process around each of the block head bolt holes, that pull up slightly from the dock surface.  Dave W

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3 hours ago, fastg said:

There is a technique to this,  I don't want to see someone attacking a cylinder head with a bastard file, checkout 

 

 

A few concerns in that video. #1 is that I can't do full pass like that due to bolt tabs sticking out in areas to go into head. #2 the amount of debris that falls down into cylinders and bolt threads makes me very concerned. 

 

Went over to a machinist friend of mine and he gave me machine bars that worked pretty perfectly so far

 

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While there I discovered that my exhaust adjustable cam gear doesnt have the right hole size so also quickly machines that down too

 

Planning to get the head on tonight and get pretty far with reassembly barring other issues 

 

 

 

 

 

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Edited by Vovchandr
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Well tomorrow I'll get more oil and let it be judgement day. 

 

Had a moment of stupidity earlier

 

Cam gear was hand tight and I expected it to be spinning when we were rotating the engine to make sure on TDC. I shouldn't have had the bar in at all. My friend was curious that it was fighting him to spin and kept at it. 

 

I consulted with my other friend. He said it should be fine operationally. 

 

Just hope it runs without needing a tune 

 

 

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Edited by Vovchandr
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11 minutes ago, yellowss7 said:

We are pulling for you Vlad.   You deserve a bit of good luck.   Fingers crossed.   I’m buying your first round on Saturday night too.   Looking forward to seeing you on track.  Tom

 

Thanks. At this point I doubled down on the car working and kept my reservation at the villa. If I can't get the car sorted in time we might still go down and make a trip out of it. Im past the point of cancelation now on the room. 

 

I'm a bit anxious about the rebuild. Too many variables to go wrong for my liking and in my personal experience, statistically something always doesn't work quite right on first try. 

 

Even if I did all the labor perfect there are still a few wild cards. 

 

Is the timing being set at 0 going to work without a tune?

Will this sort my overheating issue?

Will the broken cam work fine?

Will this solve my problem of misfire/lack of power after decel?

Will my metal noise from cylinder one be resolved?

Etc etc. 

 

The amount of guesswork for parts between different Zetecs compounded with uncertain history of what exact parts are in it, even after contacting the original builder and engine builder contractor makes me feel uneasy. 

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When I replaced my entire engine I initially had to use the old tune (rushing to make USA7S event in ‘19). I did chassis dyno it to check AFR’s. It ran fine but a later tune added abt 10 hp and 6 lbs torque. So, assuming all is buttoned down, you will be able to participate, tho maybe not at full strength. Rooting for you!

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What did you decide regarding the head gasket?  Just curious.  
 

That photo that showed the small round opening sort of looked like a plugged channel, particularly thinking back to all the rust  removal efforts you went through.

 

Steve

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Update. I need hive mind help to form a think tank. 

 

Starts. Runs. Misfiring on cylinder #4. 

 

Not sure why. Cat was glowing red and sparks were coming out of exhaust. 

 

Checked the temp on the runners and 4 was drastically colder then rest. 

 

I'll grab a compression tester and leak down tester tomorrow and try test with those 

 

I feel like if misfire is solved I'll be in good shape

 

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@JohnCh and I have been texting back and forth trying to think this one through but I lost and have to type the response as he is off feeding his beloved white Persian house cats, specially cooked non-GMO chicken.  Big softy he is!  

 

Trying to put some order in this to allow you to test systematically....the cold cylinder #4 with a glowing cat and sparks would lead me to suspect that you have no combustion in the #4 cylinder.  Instead the unburned fuel is being sent to the cat where it is hot enough to get combusted there.  Sparks would be indicative of the cat being burned up - not a good thing for the record since they are really expensive to replace.  

 

Reinforcing this is your video.  Its stable revs (until the end), classic sound of a no combustion in one or more cylinders, plus a misfire.  Not sure what the noise was at the end?  John theorized microphone being moved?   Temp readings you took seem to imply that 3 cylinders are firing and 1 is dead.

 

My usual starting approach is think air, spark, fuel

  • Air - seems to be present
  • Spark - questionable - refer below
  • fuel - possibly yes since your cat converter is glowing happily.  

However, this is likely a timing issue so you may have all 3 pieces but they come into play at the wrong time/sequence.  This makes it tricky to solve by forum post.  

 

Things to start with:

  1. Swap your plug leads around and see if you can get #4 working.  You could be looking at something simple like dead spark plug or loose wire to plug.
  2. It could be a coil pack issue if you have wasted spark.  John thinks you are set up that way.
  3. John was not convinced you have correct cam timing.  Possibly right as we dont know if you retained the same slot angle on the back of the cams as you were running pre-tear down?  However,  my logic would then suggest all 4 cylinders would be off if that were the case?  But you only seem to be off only 1 (or 2?) cylinders?   Not sure - something seems important to this observation but need time to put pieces together.  
  4. You could have a failed injector that is over pumping fuel into #4 and that is coming out exhaust side.   

@JohnCh  When you have finished pampering your pets - have I missed anything?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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A few points on the phone before I get back on the computer 

 

1) pretty important point is that pre existing timing is not recreated. I couldn’t be certain whether pre existing timing was purposeful (tune) or accidental (slip/jump).
 

I have adjustable cam gears now so I could try to dial the cams close to what I’ve had in the picture before disassembly but I’m not quite configured that my timing is off if 3 of the cylinders appear to be running fine. (Could be all of them are off but something is else compounding. Im not ruling that out)

 

2) I likely have waged spark. Not sure how that effects my situation. 
 

3) just to get that out of the way - crank case only has 2 position. TDC (1 and 4 are up) and non tdc (2/3 are up). It’s not 4 separate positions like the cam right? Want to be cover the obvious and make sure I didn’t time #4 tdc instead of #1 (assumption is that they are equal)

 

revs are stable until the very end. Once it got warmer it wanted to stall and i needed to keep giving it throttle to keep it going. Idled very ok at first. Noise at the end of the video if I think what you’re talking about it me releasing the clutch and the it chattering. That’s normal for my sequential. 
 

 

I’m using a new Ford thermostat. I got very close to operating temp or right around it. 
 

I hope it’s not a timing issue because I’d be over my head but I’ll do this tomorrow. 
 

1) swap plugs. 
2) compression test

3) leak down test

4) I can swap injectors. Not ruling it out but doesn’t seem likely. 
5) I’ll double check I don’t have an air leak from ITBs 

 

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It would be good to know if something happened at the 20 second mark of the video.  Did the sound suddenly change or is that just a recording artifact?  When you write that #4 is colder than the rest, how much colder?  Dead cylinder colder or misfiring cylinder colder?  Given the history here, you might be looking at a few minor things being off rather than just one.  i.e. I don't think Occam's Razor applies to your engine.

 

 

The Persian house cats are now fed and they are rooting for you.

 

Vlad.thumb.JPG.14440c9b12596dfb1987f62fac58e385.JPG

 

-John

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2 minutes ago, Vovchandr said:

2) I likely have waged spark. Not sure how that effects my situation. 

We weren't sure if you were running a distributor or wasted spark.  If the former, then the question was ignition advance, if the latter, a failing coil pack could be part of the problem.  I've had two of the Ford units fail over the years.  

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3 minutes ago, JohnCh said:

It would be good to know if something happened at the 20 second mark of the video.  Did the sound suddenly change or is that just a recording artifact?  When you write that #4 is colder than the rest, how much colder?  Dead cylinder colder or misfiring cylinder colder?  Given the history here, you might be looking at a few minor things being off rather than just one.  i.e. I don't think Occam's Razor applies to your engine.

 

 

The Persian house cats are now fed and they are rooting for you.

 

Vlad.thumb.JPG.14440c9b12596dfb1987f62fac58e385.JPG

 

-John


the dogs might be into something. 
 

at around 20 seconds it’s Combination of clutch and me letting the car stall by no longer forcing idle with throttle. It held idle early and then needed help after. To be fair I haven’t adjusted the cable right yet and I still have no IAC turned on or connected. So idle is a little hard to chase down right regardless until everything runs fine. 
 

as I recall it was about 100 degree F different or more. 


It likely I have a few things going around at same times which is what I was afraid of. 
 

priority number one is figuring out whether timing is a problem as is and needs dial in or fine as is

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13 hours ago, Kitcat said:

When I replaced my entire engine I initially had to use the old tune (rushing to make USA7S event in ‘19). I did chassis dyno it to check AFR’s. It ran fine but a later tune added abt 10 hp and 6 lbs torque. So, assuming all is buttoned down, you will be able to participate, tho maybe not at full strength. Rooting for you!

 

Here is a video soon after the first start. Holding idle. A bit of shaking, you can see it in the overflow tank

 

 

 

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Today’s updates

 

Compression seems good

165 145 165 162. Dry test. 
 

Leakdown looked good too. 10% or less. 
 

checked for spark with a rudimentary method of a lawn mower spark tester and 3 and 4 were firing. 
 

moved the spark plug over to see if it would help cylinder 4. It did not. 
 

here is new video with thermal. Cold start

 


 

I’m likely going to try to play with cam timing next. Reading up on retarding the intake cam 5? 10? Degrees and see if that helps. 
 

Stock zetec is non interference. No idea if my cam work changed that. I don’t believe it would as to best of my knowledge it’s a stock Ford cam that has been ground and the lash caps compensate for work. Worst case scenario is a hard stop and messaging KitKat about his block?…

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I am not sure how cam timing will effect one cylinder only? Looks like you have a lost spark setup, have you tried swapping the plug leads on a single coil to see if the miss moves, If the miss moves you have a bad coil or a bad plug wire. 

 

Graham 

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I believe the Zetec SVT (like yours)  is an interference engine. Maybe one of the many differences from the standard Zetec? SVT has longer rods, different pistons, etc. All per notes of a chat with TurboTom a few years ago when he was building my new engine. 

Edited by Kitcat
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