Clarko Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 (edited) ....So I was wondering if anyone in the collective could share if they have any suggestions or have had a problem like this that they have overcome: My OMEX 600 Ecu will not switch “Stat Sync’d” from OFF to ON when cranking and will therefore not fire the injectors nor coil pack.... because the signal it is getting from the Crank Position Sensor does not confirm that it knows where TDC is....or at least that is my understanding of the problem. I wake every day for my 6.30 am call to OMEX in the UK to discuss where I am at.... The CPS is sending SOME sort of a signal as the Ecu sees the cranking revs150 to 400 depending on whether spark plugs are in or not. The newly obvious stuff has been checked... correct polarity on the stock CPS (I have bought a new one anyway) Its in a stock alloy housing ( for manual Zetec, looks like stock crank trigger on Fidanza flywheel....air gap I have measured as something ~1mm..... OMEX would like to see that at 0.5mm so I am working on shaving down one of my CPS sensors to narrow the gap.... Any thoughts or suggestion would be appreciated? Current thought is perhaps electrical interference from the starter motor or something similar ? I have an oscilloscope coming next week so that I can capture a scope wave file to send to OMEX to diagnose... pffft... driving me crazy.... talk about getting stopped in your tracks by something you didn’t know existed... Need to get Stat sync ON to even get fuel and spark!!!!! Shoot me and get it over and done with ? Edited October 22, 2020 by Clarko Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffee break Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 Is this a new installation issue or did it stop working? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarko Posted October 22, 2020 Author Share Posted October 22, 2020 It’s a new installation, so no previous working history to help;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnCh Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 What is the history of this engine? Was it previously running an ECU with the CPS in the back? If not, and I may be clutching at straws here, but did all Zetecs use the ring gear for the trigger wheel, or did some variants use a trigger wheel on the crank pulley? If there is a mix, then I wonder if your ring gear doesn't have some type of reference marker to tell the ECU which tooth corresponds to TDC? Second long shot; does the OMEX has an adjustment for the trigger wheel tooth count? If so, does it correspond the count on the ring gear? -John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashyers Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 Check the harness for any damage and check the pins to the ECU. Hopefully the ECU is programmed correctly for the trigger set up. Do you have the ability to access it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarko Posted October 23, 2020 Author Share Posted October 23, 2020 John and Andy, Thankyou for the responses . To the best of my knowledge: 2000 Focus engine with 1600 miles on it... I don’t know what the set up on it was before... but it seems now... 17 years after it was all fitted together to have the correct. CPS boss (manual Zetec) to give the stock crank trigger which I can see through the boss, onto the Fidanza flywheel which I have the receipt for.. ... I can only assume that in 2003 Dick Brink who sold the kit and the clutch and flywheel and gearbox helped with the decision process.. all the correct bits seem to have been picked? The Ecu has been programmed for the Zetec using a stock configuration of 36-1 for the crank trigger ... so the Ecu IS looking for the correct stuff..... I think... but doesn’t like what it sees.... I should say I don’t really know what ring gear is? I believe the non start decision tree for Stat sync not switching on is: 1) wiring... which I believe I have now proved 2) CPS it self... either fault in sensor or air gap is wrong or electrical interference from starter motor or other wiring... I believe the sensor is OK..... Tomorrow I am going to start stick pieces of tape onto the end of the sensor and spinning the motor til it clips the layers of tape... then I should know exactly what the air gap is... if it’s still too big... modify the sensor flange until it’s down at Next Tuesday I should have my cheap Chinese oscilloscope here to plug onto the CPS to capture a wave file while cranking to be able to perhaps diagnose what the issue is? It should show how clean the signal is ... if that doesn’t show a shitty signal then I suppose the ecubis on a plane back to old blighty for diagnosis... then if that doesn’t fixit .. I already have it in my mind there will be a new crank trigger going onto the front of the crank pulley unless someone has a better suggestion .... I don’t really fancy pulling the motor as I didn’t put it in their.... and I might have stretched my brain enough for one car:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnCh Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 Just did a little research. The only cars I'm familiar with that mount the CPS adjacent to the flywheel operate differently than the Zetec. I see now that Ford fits a separate trigger wheel, so my earlier comments are way off base. In addition to the wiring checks Andy suggests, make sure that the signal wires for the CPS aren't too close to the coil pack. That can be a bad combination for interference. -John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rzempel Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 Are you sure you have the right sensor housing for your car? The Zetecs had different housing for automatic vs. manual transmissions. See here, for example http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=66152 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarko Posted October 23, 2020 Author Share Posted October 23, 2020 Thanks John and Rzempel. Yes the CPS housing is the correct manual one... the difference between the two is about 20 mm so I am happy that I do not have the Auto one installed You have put a slight seed of doubt in my mind about how well the sensor fits into the housing as it’s a bit of a sloppy fit.. when I tighten the screw which holds it in, it always ends up in the same spot but there is a gap down the side of it as if the sensor hole is too big which is curious, almost as if the person who fitted it has tried to move the position slightly.. I shall do some more digging tomorrow.. and will post photos so that you know what I mean.... interesting... Electrical interference from coil pack is NOT yet a factor as I have to get stat sync to switch on before it will even fire the coil pack.... the main danger of interference at moment is from the starter I believe... but right now that “CPS” hole in the fitting is bothering me!!!! Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rzempel Posted October 24, 2020 Share Posted October 24, 2020 I'm re-reading all your clues, and am confused. You are using a stock sensor and Fidanza flywheel, yet your ECU is set to 36-1. Is your sensor on the flywheel or on a 36 tooth wheel (minus one) on the crankshaft? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnCh Posted October 24, 2020 Share Posted October 24, 2020 rzempel, I shared your confusion. After doing some research, I finally found this photo of the setup. Rather than use the flywheel teeth with a reference peg like some cars, there is a large 36-1 wheel that bolts to the face of the flywheel. -John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarko Posted October 24, 2020 Author Share Posted October 24, 2020 Yes John that is exactly what I THINK I have. I am going to get my wife to slowly spin the engine while I shoot a video through the CPS housing to verify missing tooth...but I think that will be OK.. I can see that their ARE teeth similar to your photo so that’s probably OK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnCh Posted October 24, 2020 Share Posted October 24, 2020 The fact you can see the teeth is good. The part that still confuses me though is the fact the ECU is reading an engine speed, but it's wildly off and seems to vary. Does the Omex have a setting for different sensor types (e.g. Inductive, Hall effect)? Perhaps that is set incorrectly? -John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarko Posted October 24, 2020 Author Share Posted October 24, 2020 Hi John, set correctly for VR stock Ford sensor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnCh Posted October 24, 2020 Share Posted October 24, 2020 Have you adjusted the gap yet? If not, that may be the answer. As per this post on WSCC, the person had the same issue with an Omex. Reducing the gap from 0.9mm to the recommended 0.3-0.5mm resulted in Stat Sync'd changing to on: https://forum.wscc.co.uk/forum/topic/130245-no-spark-intermittent/?do=findComment&comment=1385171 -John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashyers Posted October 25, 2020 Share Posted October 25, 2020 Chrysler used a neat trick to set sensor gap, they applied a piece of paper to the end of the sensor and you installed it with the paper hitting one of the teeth and tightened the mounting hardware. This set the gap. Once the engine turned the paper was knocked off and you were good to go. Simple and accurate. Maybe this would help to set the spacing for your car???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panamericano Posted October 25, 2020 Share Posted October 25, 2020 Chrysler used a neat trick to set sensor gap, they applied a piece of paper to the end of the sensor and you installed it with the paper hitting one of the teeth and tightened the mounting hardware. This set the gap. Once the engine turned the paper was knocked off and you were good to go. Simple and accurate. Maybe this would help to set the spacing for your car???? Back to the old ages. Supposedly one could set the gap on Triumphs with cigarette paper. Motor bike and breaker points though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarko Posted October 25, 2020 Author Share Posted October 25, 2020 Hi Andy and John, Thankyou. I am currently working on the gap right now. I screwed it up yesterday and took a chunk out of the end of one of my sensors currently working on my spare sensor ;-) I like the idea of the piece of paper or in my case tape on the end of the sensor I’ll let you know how I get on Clark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarko Posted October 25, 2020 Author Share Posted October 25, 2020 Also glad to say that I have verified Through the CPS hole that there is a tooth missing at 90 degrees below top dead center.... now back to the gaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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