Avon ZZR tires

[BlueBDA]

I have 13" Avon ZZR tires on my Caterham - 215-55-13 rear, and 185-55-13 front. All are A24 compound. I need new front tires before I can drive at all this season. Primary uses are track days and autocross. I am awaiting word from Roger Kraus Racing about two 185s that they are supposed to receive any day. However it's already 2 weeks beyond when they said they would be getting them, and when I search the web it looks like they are out of stock everywhere in the UK. So my questions are:

 

1. Does anyone know anything about availability of these?

 

2. Recommendations on other tires I could put on the front to use along with the ZZRs I have in the rear? Or would I really need to buy 4 new tires if I can't get the ZZRs?

 

Any thoughts would be appreciated. I want to get driving!

[sf4018]

Try Roger Kraus roger@rogerkrausracing.com, he had the ZZRs in stock a few months back.

 

Edit: Sorry didn't see you already did that.

 

Edit 2: I can sell my set of ZZRs if you don't mind buying used. I bought them October last year, used them for 1 day on track only so they are in good shape just not sticker.

Edited April 12, 2021 by sf4018

[BlueBDA]

38 minutes ago, sf4018 said:

Try Roger Kraus roger@rogerkrausracing.com, he had the ZZRs in stock a few months back.

 

Edit: Sorry didn't see you already did that.

 

Edit 2: I can sell my set of ZZRs if you don't mind buying used. I bought them October last year, used them for 1 day on track only so they are in good shape just not sticker.

PM set...

[Mark IV]

We have the 225 rears in stock but no fronts so no joy there.

[sf4018]

The ZZRs I'm removing from my wheels are lightly used (1 day on track) but the fronts are 5-6 years old from manufacture date, if anyone wants the set of 4 let me know otherwise I'm going to bin them.

[wxywb021254]

I just put some toyo r888r 195 width on my car. Based on my calculation, these tires can easily last maybe 6-10k miles, which is about 5 years driving for me. Well worth a new set. 

[BlueBDA]

16 hours ago, wxywb021254 said:

I just put some toyo r888r 195 width on my car. Based on my calculation, these tires can easily last maybe 6-10k miles, which is about 5 years driving for me. Well worth a new set. 

Are those 13" or 15"? Only R888Rs I see in 13" and widths for the front are 60 series, and are 185 or 205.

[wxywb021254]

You are right. Mine is 15. But 185/55 vs 185/60 is about 3% difference in diameter. I think many tire size has that much variance from manufacturer to manufacturer. 

[wxywb021254]

And @BruceBemay have zzs for sale. 

[BlueBDA]

So it's been a while and still no 185/55/13 ZZRs from Roger Kraus (or anywhere else). They are in a container in San Francisco Bay, which currently has lots of container ships backed up. No idea when the ship will dock, the tires get to Roger Kraus, they ship to me, and they arrive at my house. As it's May this weekend, and I want to get out on tracks, I'm now considering my other options. (My wheels are 6" and 7" widths):

 

1. Put new 185/60/13 Toyo R888Rs on the front, along with my slightly worn 215/55/13 ZZRs in the rear.

 

2. Put new 185/60/13 Toyo R888Rs on the front, and new 205/60/13 R888Rs on the rear. 

 

Opinions on these two options? I'm leaning towards option 2.

[Kitcat]

Try option 1 first and save some $ if it works. I have run mixed brands front and back with no adverse effects, as long as grip is equal. You will know instantly if it's not. And I suspect the ZZRs will have better grip than the Toyos, so you will have understeer, which is easier to cope with than oversteer. 

 

Consider having the seller (Tire-Rack?) heat cycle the Toyos. If you are feeling adventurous, have them shaved as well. Grip is vastly increased, tho they wont work in the rain.

 

I have an old set of well-worn Kumos  for the back of my Cat that are still  the equal of any new tire I put on the front.

[BlueBDA]

1 hour ago, Kitcat said:

Try option 1 first and save some $ if it works. I have run mixed brands front and back with no adverse effects, as long as grip is equal. You will know instantly if it's not. And I suspect the ZZRs will have better grip than the Toyos, so you will have understeer, which is easier to cope with than oversteer. 

 

Consider having the seller (Tire-Rack?) heat cycle the Toyos. If you are feeling adventurous, have them shaved as well. Grip is vastly increased, tho they wont work in the rain.

 

I have an old set of well-worn Kumos  for the back of my Cat that are still  the equal of any new tire I put on the front.

 

Thanks Kitkat. Any concerns about going from 185-55 to 185-60 in the front? Still lower profile than the 215-55 in the rear, so I think it's ok?

 

[BlueBDA]

p.s. (I think I'm allowed to hijack my own thread  ): Interesting that we have/had a similar collection of cars: Seven, hot hatch, Miata. How do you like your 2019 Miata? Been thinking of making the NA to ND move, thought the NA can't leave the family, as I've had it for 28 years.

[Kitcat]

I had a ‘94 Miata which I stripped out and made into a track rat. With every conceivable mod, short of turbo/supercharger and on fat Hoosier slicks it was 3seconds a lap slower than my less modified’19 on wide Bridgestone R71R’s. The Bridgestonees were worth 7” a lap over stock tires at Mid Ohio(my times there in my ‘19 are 2-3” a lap slower than my Cat). Ditto at Putnam Park.

[Kitcat]

1 hour ago, BlueBDA said:

 

Thanks Kitkat. Any concerns about going from 185-55 to 185-60 in the front? Still lower profile than the 215-55 in the rear, so I think it's ok?

 

No informed opinion. But I run 15x 45-225 on  the back and 13x60-185 on the front and it works well, but that’s how it was set up for track, with needed mods, by Beachman Racing.

[BlueBDA]

Sounds like I should just go for the front R888Rs as you say, and see how it feels before spending for the new rears.

 

My 91 Miata is supercharged, but still less HP than a new ND. I have Xida race suspension, and autocross it. Never had it on a track, since it's in awesome original condition and I've never wanted to cut it up to put a roll bar in. Also I drive it on the street, and I prefer to not have a rollbar on that car for street driving (I'm in the camp that believes a rollbar makes it less safe for street driving, in a rear-end collision. I never drive that car on the street in a way that it could flip over anyway.) For autocross I've done pretty well with it, and it's very fun, but it'll never be competitive as the supercharger puts it in SM class. It's a fun car, but a new ND would be better for both street and autocross. And have modern conveniences like power steering and air conditioning .

[Kitcat]

I loaded up my rollover bar in both cars with foam padding. The ‘19 is very nice, it seems luxurious in comparison but the driving experience is very similar. Great audio, gets 30-40 mpg on the interstate. And is about as fast to 60 as my Honda Type R was. And the Miata is as fast on the track as the Honda was(and I had it on R71Rs also).