rider

I had a great opportunity to meet with Jim @kayentaskier and Gregory @Silber in Park City, UT. Gregory's Birkin had an issue possibly due to high altitude; so, he couldn't join the drive. We met at a mountain ski place, with a stunning view of the city along the route. Jim drove his 420R one way; I drove on the way back. Jim is a gentleman, a Sports Car Purist and a Seven Connoisseur! I appreciate his gesture a great deal. I took the road trip from Minneapolis in the Miata. Here are my observations and thoughts. Steering: Wow! This is how a sports car's steering should feel! A standard production car with assisted steering can never feel like this. Just incredible. This alone is worth the price of entry! Jim noted the bigger wheel option would be a better choice; so, will go with that. Transmission, Shifter: No surprise here: I got what I expected since they come from Miata! Miata's 5-Speed was and is the best ever! I still remember the transmission and the shifting feel from my Gen 1 (NA) Miata. However, I was shocked how badly the shifter was positioned, directly below, at the edge of the dash! I couldn't place my hand on the top of the shifter as I usually do, being blocked/hindered by the bottom edge of the dash. They could have simply moved the placement toward the driver by an inch. Even more shocking, I've never heard this from anyone before! I have read and watched a TON of reviews of Seven, over many years. Not a single reviewer mentioned this. But, it was the very first thing I stumbled on when I put my hand on the shifter! It just reminds me, regardless what everyone says, unless you get to experience it, you will never truly know! You got to touch and feel! Ingress/Egress: Not as bad as some have made them out to be. Just takes a bit of practice. Since i plan to spec Trackday Roll Cage, it should help with getting in and out. I was actually meaning to try getting in and out a few times so that I can memorize the feeling. Forgot. Missed opportunity! One thing I need to answer myself is, can I still be able to get in and out in my 80s, assuming I stay fit as I do now? Windscreen: Jim's 420R has Aero Screen with no doors. I'll have Windshield and Side Doors with Arm Rest. Got hit a couple of times with tiny stones/pebbles! These days, I'm over-conscious about minimizing/eliminating wind noise in open-top cars and motorcycles. Standard Floor: Jim has Lowered Floor. I'm a short dude (5'8"); and, I couldn't see out over the opaque Aero Screen!! So, he had to prop me up with a big towel placed on the seat. So, yeah, no Lowered Floor for me! But, would I have been fine with a standard Windshield as opposed to opaque screen which blocked a crucial few inches? Need to find out. Seat Position: This is bit of a bummer. With the seat moved all the way forward, I couldn't depress the clutch pedal all the way down to the floor. Just short by an inch or less! So, he had to find another rug to place behind my back to help out this short dude! An inch of pedal extension would help. Jim mentioned about Pedal Blocks. If anyone here tried them? Not sure if these would help: - Pedal Rubber for Brake, Clutch Transmission Tunnel Cover: This got to be in Alcantara! Leather (Jim's has Vinyl on custom Tunnel Cover) just wouldn't work. The parts of the cover exposed to sun got super hot. So, placing the hand for support when getting in and out or moving the arm a bit when driving was not doable due to heat. 'evo' magazine's 420R has Alcantara, which is exactly what I plan to do. Seats: These need to be Alcantara as well. evo magazine's car has Houndstooth/Pepita seat covers. I would go further and make the entire seating area in Alcantara. Need to check with Caterham. Road Grip and Feel: Wow! This totally lives up to the reputation of being the Purist's Sports Car! Don't know if any other road car can even come remotely close! Just phenomenal! Sports Car of Sports Cars! Everything in it is alive and telepathic! Clutch, Brake Pedals: The unassisted pedals will need a lot of mental re-calibration! I'll get used to it. However, when switching between regular Sports Cars and the Seven, re-calibration is critical. As it happened, after just about 15 minutes of drive in the Seven, watched Jim drive away, I got back in the humble Miata. I left the parking lot and when I braked for the first time at the end of the parking drive way, I applied more pressure on the brake pedal than needed! Yeah, the brain was still living in the Seven World!! General Notes: - It was a visceral and sensory overload: An elemental Sports Car with unassisted controls, Light Weight Flywheel, having to adjust the shift pattern (grip on the side as opposed to top as I'm used to) due to shifter placement issue, unfamiliar and challenging mountain road (with no guardrails at some sections), not able to see behind or sides (due to unadjusted mirrors), lack of windshield and doors and the resulting wind buffeting, etc.! - As if the visceral and sensory overloads weren't enough, I was stung by a bee at the start of the drive!! So, for the entire drive, I was in sharp pain, distracting me! Never been stung by a bee before; so, that was another first! The pain lasted all the way into the night! At least, it added to the story! - During the later part of the drive, my hat got dislodged to the back of the head due to heavy wind buffeting. It caused the chin strap to land on the neck and started cutting into! Yeah, should have expected it! Another distraction! Summary: LOVED it! There are few caveats, as explained above. They are likely solvable. Very addictive. I can drive this at every available opportunity! In the age of highly sanitized Sports Cars, Seven is an anachronism. Sticking a middle-finger to posers! For the masses focused on turbo low-end torque and 0-60 times, Seven leads the way and stunningly demonstrates you can have more fun and feel alive at street-legal speeds! I need to have a car like Seven in my driving life! Questions: - Shifter Position: This is an issue to me; may not be to others. Jim mentioned shortening the shaft. Has anyone tried any other mod? How are you dealing with it? - Ideas on moving the seat further forward or the pedal extensions, by an inch? - Fuel Filler Issue? Jim mentioned some of you have had an issue inserting the fuel pump into the tank at the gas station (he doesn't have the issue).

Yeah, Jim mentioned it. He personally could be responsible for adding to the Seven-Owners count! He warned I might become a victim and end up getting one...! :-) Hope it goes well. If you're able to get it registered, you could come along; you've a month! :-) Nice track rides! That's what I call a royal treatment, Jim! Could be the easiest and painless way to register a Seven! I should move into your county.....!

@Silber: Gregory, you could join us on 8/12 if you can. We're meeting at Brighton Store & Cafe, 8302 South Brighton Loop Road, Brighton The exact time isn't set yet. If the weather isn't good, we could move the date around a bit.

Congratulations, @Frankie. I'm in the process of evaluating my thoughts on getting a Seven. I'm meeting up with Jim, @kayentaskier, on 8/12 Saturday, in Park City. I'll be driving from Minneapolis. Would be cool to have you along. If you're able, send a message to me and Jim. Of course, we'll watch the weather forecast. If it isn't dry, we'll move the schedule around for a nice day.

I here ya, @slowdude. Seven and bikes have a lot of parallel. Especially, if you consider finicky, temperamental Italian Super Models aka old school Superbikes! Good to know the simplicity of the underlying platform. Will learn along the way. Just need to be proactive and super vigilant. Thanks for the encouragement.

Learning a skill set is not a problem. As a Software Architect, I'm always learning; new tools, processes, methodologies, etc. I'm reading and training constantly. Every project is different. So, I'm conditioned to learning constantly. And, I'm self-taught. It comes down to time. I live in an apartment building; so, space is limited. But, underground parking spot could be used for minor issues. Yeah, avoid klutzy software guys to buy from.....! As I type this response, a crazy idea just popped in! I've just been exchanging private messages with @kayentaskier/Jim regarding the dealer. Let me analyze my thought further, then share for feedback. Wow! Must have been one hell of a shock at high speed!! I don't think anyone would have expected a 3-year old car would have such a failure. Might be, the parts are built for light weight and just to meet the specs, not for longevity. Yes, that's why it is imperative to check and replace ahead of suggested life span. Will read through that thread; thanks for sharing. Yes, some bikers work on their rides; but, not this guy....! Though I have the chain cleaner and lube, I usually let the tech do that during annual service. My bike, F4, is extremely sensitive to chain tension (else, the Rear Hub will detonate!!), among a bunch of other stuff! It is a two-wheel equivalent of Seven!! No exaggeration!

@Croc: Mike, didn't think of this to ask earlier: did the A Frame fail due to incident on the track or the track incident was caused by the failure of A Frame? @KnifeySpoony: This is a question I'm really struggling with! Mechanically, I'm a klutz; I'm a software guy! Having said that, I can learn a bit. You guys are awesome and resourceful; so, I can rely on the collective wisdom of this great forum. Having said that, my plan is to buy a couple of sets of the Shop Manuals, hand a set to a local indie Porsche shop who will do all the maintenance. I have a bunch of other questions and thoughts on this issue; will make another thread. @Vovchandr: Vlad, I'm currently reading through your thread ("New Guy Here ....."); read up to page 6. Frankly, I'm shocked by what I read thus far! I don't have the skill set to deal with the problems you have endured. I might understand more after finishing the thread; are the problems due to lack of close maintenance by previous owners? At 17 years of age, the components seemed beyond beat up. The coolant hoses for example, looked terrible. I suspect each of those components may have specific life span and replacement schedule. For Seven, I would halve the life expectancy of a component as specified by the Factory! Nonetheless, I take my hat off for your patience and skills!

Oh, hell no!! I can't even be trusted to assemble an IKEA furniture!! If you thought never met a klutz, mechanically, you just have! I'll be asking for suggestions on a dealer, final tranny builder, etc., as I go through my process. Thanks. I'm just a bit worried that I need to make sure my passenger doesn't get a burn! Had it been on the driver-side, I can be mindful at all times. It should become part of my ingress/egress routine to my passenger.

I wanna thank every one of you for the feedback, suggestions and great level of details. Highly appreciate it. This forum is awesome! This is a close-knit community as expected considering the nature of Seven, it's hardest of hardcore status and the commitment it takes to have one! I'm glad to know my major concern of cabin heat is put to rest. It's a step closer than before. I'm gonna work on the next step in the process....! cheers.

Interesting; thanks. This is great; thanks, Mike. You just touched on my only other major issue of discussion which I alluded to Jim (kayentaskier). I've got a few questions, thoughts and mitigation options. Will make another thread to ask about those. Thanks; will look it up. Thanks, Bruce. So, with the exhaust being on the right, it is now incumbent on the driver to make sure the passenger gets in and out without burning the leg!! And, make sure she wears an earplug! And, good to know heat insulation helps which 420 has out of the box. That's a relief! Yeah, you can quickly outgrow and get acclimated with the power levels if you're tracking...! For the street, my driving use cases, 420 seems right as you and others conclude.

Forgot to address; actually, this comment deserves its own response! This is the first time I'm reading this phrase attributed to a Seven! Actually, it is very reassuring to hear the word "reliable" to describe the 420!

I've been around the block, Mike! Thanks for the details. Wonder why the CSR flopped. Is it because Seven Purists didn't entertain a "friendly" version? Thanks. Will add to my list of possible mods. Will evaluate how the stock performs out of the box before making any change. This (highlighted by me) is one of the data points in my consideration. From now, I'm letting my brain make a decision as opposed to heart, unlike in the past! ICE will be gone in a few years; or, the kind of cars we enthusiasts want to buy would be changed dramatically. So, no time to experiment. A 911 or Spyder can possibly be driven till the last day of your driving life. At a recent PCA (Porsche Club of America) event, I saw a gentleman with his mother in a wheelchair. At the end of the event, I saw her on the front passenger seat of his 911 and he was loading up the folded wheel chair in the back! Kid you not! Didn't see how he executed the whole process. That was impressive! I wanna be able to drive my Sportscar at ripe old age even if I were walking with a cane or walker! Good to know; thanks. I'm still bit unclear about this unanswered question: does LHD (US-spec) car have exhaust on the passenger-side? Every picture I've seen, the exhaust is on the driver-side, whether LHD or RHD. Thanks Christopher. Is there a commercially available product? Though it is now confirmed 420 has insulation for firewall and tranny tunnel, I still wanna explore options to possibly increase the insulation. Of course, I'll evaluate the stock, as-is spec before touching it.

Thanks KnifeySpoony. Great to hear 420 has added insulation. That's a relief. I'll ask about the possibility of doubling the insulation. Yes, will post the build specs and solicit feedback in a separate thread. Ouch! Getting your shoe sole melted sounds serious! I actually wanted 620S, just because....! But, I learned it only comes in RHD which is no-go for me. Hearing your feedback illustrates why 620 is a bad idea; more power, more heat! You might also have the heat-soak from supercharger. No Thanks! Good to know 420 works right out of the box. Thanks, Mike. Thanks for the details, IamScotticus. - I'm a shorts, t-shirt and sandals kinda guy when out for a spirited/casual driving. Prefer to leave the protective clothing to motorcycles! - Isn't the exhaust on the driver-side (left) on 420? If it is on the right, passenger-side, then, would the passenger feel the heat? - I'll be spec'ing SV chassis; so, I don't expect an issue in the pedal box. Street shoes/sandals should work; but, correct me if my understanding is incorrect. - Ahh, the niggles! Yes, I've read through past five years of postings here, Piston Heads and few other places! I've a separate thread coming! - Why 420? Bit long-winded response: I'm in my mid-50s. ICE is going away soon; at least, ICE-only specs will be gone. I've very limited financial resources; wish I didn't blow up few opportunities along the way. But, working intensively to make up for them! In the meantime, going forward, I only want buy cars and motorcycles that I want to keep for good. I got just one shot. In a few years, we won't have cars that we care about buying! So, to me, 420 is at a good spot: highest spec NA model. If I flush out all the details and convinced that Seven is "go", then 420 is the only spec I want. I've a self-imposed limit of 3 or 4 cars and 2 motorcycles. So, will have to shuffle through and complete the cars list in 4-5 years. I do like to rest the right knee on the tunnel when just cruising. Padding sounds like a good idea. Noted. Glad to hear heat isn't much of an issue in yours. And, yeah, Nut House is right....! Hope to get in there....! Interesting! That's a better problem to have, I suppose! Thanks. Thanks, Kitcat. As Mike and KnifeySpoony indicated, the observations you mentioned aren't applicable for 420, right? Getting burned isn't good! Yeah, you don't repeat that! Sensory Overload is one of the reasons I want a Seven! You can get a Porsche and call it a day! But, to make every drive an experience, we need a Seven or Atom or BAC Mono, et al. So, you have 2 or 3 Sevens? Interesting thoughts. Insulating the tunnel sounds more rewarding. KnifeySpoony mentioned above 420 comes with factory insulation. I'll ask about doubling or tripling, if spacing allows! I hear ya! If I manage to burn myself the second time, then, I would deserve it......! Thanks, Bernie. I would follow the mitigations you've done. 420 is reportedly comes with insulation in tranny tunnel. The picture you shared, showing transmission tunnel? As for the shoes, I'll spec the SV chassis. Hoping I wouldn't have to worry about pedal spacing. Interesting idea, MV8. I'll add to the list for possible consideration. Thanks. Thanks, Jim. I'm super relieved to hear that 420 has insulation. Will explore about adding more insulation in other hot spots (pun unintended!) as well. Hope to make it as normal, with respect to cabin heat, as a standard Roadster. Need to make my girl comfortable to ride in!! Ahh, the next issue....! You saw through me! I've just one more major issue to discuss with you guys. It's for another thread! I really do wanna get in a 420R. Based on everyone's feedback, I feel 40% better than yesterday! Here is my only audience/encounter with a Seven, at a local meet. Wish I met the owner! It was a love at first sight....!

Hello gentlemen. I’m Henry; a long time lurker and a massive fan of Seven. I've watched possibly every YouTube video on 420R (my target). Read a ton of reviews. So far, read through past 5 years of discussions on this forum! My goal is to keep going back in time for a few more years of discussion!! Documented highlights of many reviews and problem areas. Have spent a lot of time spec'ing the car in the Configurator; many times over! So, I won't be asking any silly or noob questions even though I've seen a Seven in the wild just once! There is one major issue I want to start with. This has come up a lot and many of you have done some mitigation. I'm trying to confirm the mitigation options and if they actually make a difference. The issue is cabin heat! The heat radiating from or felt in or due to: - Engine firewall - Transmission Tunnel - Footwell - From side-mounted exhaust - Full windshield and doors trapping the heat in the cabin Mitigations done by some of you (sorry, I can't credit anyone since I didn't document who did what): - Powdercoat the header - Wrap parts of the header - I'm not sure if this is reliable as some bikers have tried wrapping exhausts and reported issues with moisture trapping, etc. (I'm a rider) - Heat Insulation materials on: - Bulkhead - Transmission tunnel - Firewall - Footwell - Side panel along the exhaust - Reflective material on the footwell - Remove a part of Ali Sheeting (I don't know what this means!) - Remove the trapezoidal section of Ali plate that covers the rear of the transmission tunnel/diff area. - Remove the rivets and leave it open. Air now flows through the tunnel freely and the tubes are a lot cooler. (This sounds like a brilliant idea. If "you" are reading this, 'thanks'!) Questions: - Based on what I listed and your own experience, what are your thoughts? - Is the heat manageable to a comfort level? - It could get bit warm in stuck/stop-and-go traffic. But, not uncomfortably warm, let alone hot. - Do listed mitigations (and others I'm not aware of) work? - Or, am I being unrealistic? Appreciate your feedback and thoughts. Thanks.