DSK Seven (David Kaplan)

[GregM]

35 minutes ago, DSK said:

Hi GregM and others, David Kaplan here.

 

 

Hey David, Nice to hear from you directly!

If you look at the post right above yours you can see how people claim they are in possession of a "DSK" seven. I do not know (yet) if it is true or not as I do not have the car here with me. A friend of mine who lives close to the seller has inspected the car for me and gave me the green light to purchase it. Now I am in the middle of the logistics phase to have the car transported to NC where I live. Once I have the car here, I will be able to assess myself all that. I would be very interested to continue this conversation when I get there.

[DSK]

On 3/28/2022 at 4:09 PM, SevenAmerica said:

Once I found that a previous owner of my Seven had been in touch with DSK about the car, I tracked down Davis himself and started a conversation, which turned into the mini-website abbot DSK cars, all with his blessing -- he write most of it!

 

BUT, here is the abbreviated story of the DSK Seven...

 

DSK (David S Kaplan) worked in a shop that supplied race parts, and Lotus Seven parts.

They eventually took a car in to disassemble and measure for the purpose of building "replacement chassis".

These were (more or less) indistinguishable from a genuine Lotus chassis (as built by Arch Motor, Universal Radiator, or one other company back in the day!) and get this -- these frames were accepted by the SCCA as 'replacement parts' for genuine Lotus Sevens.

DSK then decided to build his own, "improved", version of that chassis, most notably including an integrated roll hoop that ran from the bottom perimeter frame on one side, up, over and down the other side. This is not a hoop that can be "added" to an original spec frame without literally cutting that frame in half to do it. Oh, there were other additional tubes as well.

DSK built up, if I recall correctly, exactly three complete cars on this new frame, which included turbocharged engines, and beautifully sculpted leather interiors.

 

DSK also took in other Sevens (Lotus and otherwise), refurbished them, and sold them with added I.D. plates indicating that they had been updated by DSK Cars.

 

My little DSK website also included all of the 'Technical Bulletins' one of which details all of this... I promise you'll be able to see it all again before long!

 

Cheers,

jd

 

I founded a company called RaceWare with Norman Marx. We sold Formula Ford and other racing car parts, I suggested that we also sell Seven parts to help fill in sales during the off season. Norm agreed, but later we split up and I took the Lotus Seven parts business with me, along with a prototype chassis I had begun on my own.

 

DSK Cars never built any chasses that "were (more or less) indistinguishable from a genuine Lotus chassis (as built by Arch Motor, Universal Radiator, or one other company back in the day!)" We only ever built chassis of our own, very different and upgraded design. We did buy chassis from Caterham and sell them. We were one of two US Caterham Dealers.

 

As to "these frames were accepted by the SCCA as 'replacement parts' for genuine Lotus Sevens." The SCCA actually accepted the DSK Chassis - a heavily modified redesign to replace stock chasses on Lotus Seven racecars. Why, you ask?  BECAUSE the stock Lotus chassis was frail to begin with, not designed for the loads that racing slicks put on them, had no internal rust protection and broke without warning, and failed during too many race events 

 

I got interested in building my own DSK Chassis before I even started selling Lotus parts. Our own redesign is what started DSK Cars from Day 1. 

 

DSK Cars built a number of DSK Sevens while I was still at the company, the subsequent owner Clayton Seitz built several more, and the ditz who he sold the tooling  to built others. More "kits" were sold than whole cars. The total was around 40 DSKs, last time I had an estimate that I thought reliable. But way lots more than three.

 

Yes, Caterham Cars was a tad paranoid that DSK would take some of their market share, but that was silly. We were a tiny shop and never had aspirations to compete with Caterham. We built DSK Sevens largely because I wanted to build one. We thought they were better, stronger, safer, and faster and so did a few other people who bought them. My personal goal was to have a road test of the DSK TurboSeven design published in a major sportscar magazine. After that test was completed, I sold the company. Car & Driver finally published the article in May 1982. 

 

John Donahue's SimpleSevens website does have quite a comprehensive story about DSK Cars. John does a fabulous service to Lotus Seven enthusiasts by maintaining the site. It's a lot of work.  I do caution readers of the DSK history on that site that some of the later commentors added ridiculous misinformation and mere rumors. Especially Pat Prince. 

 

[anduril3019]

David and Greg, while respecting your privacy, I, for one, would love it if you continued this conversation online. I'm building a Locost with a chassis design inspired by some of the DSK info I've found online. 

 

David, I thought I read somewhere that you had some connection with Dave Bean, is that true?

[SevenAmerica]

Thanks for correcting me David! I guess it has been a little while since I read through that portion of my website :-)

[GregM]

Honestly I don't mind if the conversation continues here.

It is what it is. If the car I purchased is a DSK or not, it won't change the fact I wanted one. I will soon find out if there are any DSK bits in it or none.

Edited April 1, 2022 by GregM

[DSK]

3 hours ago, GregM said:

Honestly I don't mind if the conversation continues here.

It is what it is. If the car I purchased is a DSK or not, it won't change the fact I wanted one. I will soon find out if there are any DSK bits in it or none.

Sevens are quite amenable to personalization. They're mechanically simple, relatively economical, and pay big rewards in performance and pride. You should enjoy ample opportunity to make this car the GregM Seven with or without other credentials or inspiration from dsk, Arch, Caterham, Dave Beane or any others of the scores of suppliers and enthusiasts smitten by  Chapman's minimalist ultralight. 

[GregM]

Just now, DSK said:

Sevens are quite amenable to personalization. They're mechanically simple, relatively economical, and pay big rewards in performance and pride. You should enjoy ample opportunity to make this car the GregM Seven with or without other credentials or inspiration from dsk, Arch, Caterham, Dave Beane or any others of the scores of suppliers and enthusiasts smitten by  Chapman's minimalist ultralight. 

Absolutely agree. I grew up in Europe where sevens are a dime a dozen and always wanted one.

I had designed and built open wheel race cars back in the mid 2000’s and currently work in this field, so I am very familiar with designing, building, developing and improving vehicles in general, high performance ones in particular.

I am still curious to find out what DSK is there on that specific car I’m getting (if anything).

The friend who checked the car for me in Arizona (former Local Motors) did mention that this seven looked professionally built (yet needs some TLC) and he is very familiar with kit cars for obvious reasons.

[DSK]

My business partner at dsk cars, Clayton, flew a Cessna. When we bought used Sevens around the US, he'd fly me to the airport nearest the car with a dealer plate and a tool box. After a thorough inspection, I'd drive those flimsy beaters back to our shop in Marblehead MA. Lots of adventures repairing on the side of the road. 

[NSXguy]

10 hours ago, DSK said:

Hi GregM and others, David Kaplan here.

 

 Back at DSK Cars, we:
1.  Sold Lotus Seven replacement parts 

2.  Designed and built DSK upgraded parts that fit Lotus Sevens

3.  Designed and built DSK Seven and TurboSeven models of our own

4.  Restored Sevens (our Magnificent Sevens program) 

5.  Built SCCA production and vintage Sevens

 

I mention these various products and services to avoid confusion when talking about your particular car.

Here's why:

 

Not sure what you meant by "I just purchased the DSK that was on sale in Arizona" 

Back in the day, we only refer to a car as a "DSK" if it was built on a DSK chassis 

So I don't think that your Seven is a DSK Seven in that sense

 

It could be a Seven that passed through DSK Cars for service - or one that we built from Lotus Seven parts 

Is that what you mean by "I just purchased the DSK ...?"

 

I saw something in the string about an Arch Motors chassis

So could be that it was a wrecked Lotus Seven that needed a new chassis where either DSK Cars or a customer did the work

Does it have a Lotus Chassis plate? Any chassis plate?

 

My guess, based on the scant information and the pictures:

We sold someone an Arch Motors chassis and they built this car, not DSK Cars

It just doesn't look like the parts and fabrication work are typical of a DSK build

 

It is definitely not Lemonade!

Lemonade had an original Lotus chassis plate and was a fully race-prepped car when we bought it

We rebuilt it and made it suitable for street use, retaining much of its race performance

I have a large color picture of Lemonade in my office - I am looking at it as I write this

I cannot see how your car could be the same car

 

I'd be pleased to discuss any or all of these thoughts with you. 

Can discuss any of this on this forum, or by phone

 

dsk,

dsk744@gmail.com

 

 

@DSKIt's really great to have you chime in here. I will be contacting you in case you have any additional info on mine. All the documentation i received on my car (from around Aug 1981) from the archivist was undersigned by Clayton Seitz, as DSK president. 

Des. 

[DSK]

Send me copies so I can get some background

[GregM]

Today I found out that the yellow Seven I purchased does, indeed, have a Lotus manufacturer plate. Perhaps like David mentioned earlier, it has been rebuilt from a wrecked Lotus?

 

photo taken by the seller:

Edited April 3, 2022 by GregM

[GTIspirit]

On 3/28/2022 at 7:36 PM, sltous said:

https://web.archive.org/web/20200222194640/http://www.simplesevens.org/dsk/history/dsk01.htm

 

Happy to remove at any point.  It looks like some of the files don't link properly but the majority come through nicely.

 

Interesting read!  Sounds like some good thought went into frame stiffness improvements, 10. Skin Deep.  How do the current frames from Caterham or Birkin compare?

[SevenAmerica]

Hello friends, just a note to say that SimpleSevens his back up and running thanks to a local Series IV Seven owner and technical wizard!

 

I'm not sure that this content: https://www.simplesevens.org/dsk/bulletins/index.htm was stored in the web archive referenced above, but here you can have a look at several of DSK's Technical Bulletins, which describe many of the special parts he provided. It's a good reference for determining if your car is wearing any DSK bits!

[GregM]

38 minutes ago, SevenAmerica said:

Hello friends, just a note to say that SimpleSevens his back up and running thanks to a local Series IV Seven owner and technical wizard!

 

I'm not sure that this content: https://www.simplesevens.org/dsk/bulletins/index.htm was stored in the web archive referenced above, but here you can have a look at several of DSK's Technical Bulletins, which describe many of the special parts he provided. It's a good reference for determining if your car is wearing any DSK bits!

Thanks for getting simplesevens back online! David has confirmed the Seven I just got is a DSK but it was put together under Pat Prince.

[DSK]

Hey GregM. I confirmed that the chassis was constructed by Pat Prince. I have no idea who your Seven was "put together under." This is the second time you have attributed to me an erroneous assertion about your Lotus.  Please extend the courtesy of taking greater care in using me for a reference without my permission.

[DSK]

Great news JohnD! If people wish to ask questions about any of those Tech Bulletins, I'll try to answer. 

Please do bear in mind, however, that I wrote them decades ago and may be a little rusty, 

[DSK]

On 4/1/2022 at 2:22 PM, anduril3019 said:

David and Greg, while respecting your privacy, I, for one, would love it if you continued this conversation online. I'm building a Locost with a chassis design inspired by some of the DSK info I've found online. 

 

David, I thought I read somewhere that you had some connection with Dave Bean, is that true?

Sorry for the delay in answering. I am all too easily distracted. DSK Cars and Dave Bean Engineering had no official connection, except perhaps that we were the two Caterham dealers in the US back them. We did cooperate with one another and pick each others brains, I bought some engine parts from Dave and he bought some chassis and suspension components from us. I admired his expertise and enjoyed his friendliness. 

[GregM]

On 4/16/2022 at 2:45 PM, DSK said:

Hey GregM. I confirmed that the chassis was constructed by Pat Prince. I have no idea who your Seven was "put together under." This is the second time you have attributed to me an erroneous assertion about your Lotus.  Please extend the courtesy of taking greater care in using me for a reference without my permission.

Hi David,

I apologize for misquoting you and I do genuinely appreciate that you looked into the details of the car I purchased and confirmed that the chassis was constructed by Pat Prince.

To be perfectly honest, I am still trying to wrap my head around about who did what in the construction process of this specific vehicle while I am also learning bits of history about DSK, company I have not heard about prior to now.

Speaking of, who is Pat Prince and what was his role in the DSK story?

 

Edited April 21, 2022 by GregM

[SevenAmerica]

I was told that at some point, that Pat Prince produced the parts that David specified, perhaps with Tom Robertson's input (see the bottom half of this page in the DSK history: https://www.simplesevens.org/dsk/history/dsk11.htm)

[GregM]

1 hour ago, SevenAmerica said:

I was told that at some point, that Pat Prince produced the parts that David specified, perhaps with Tom Robertson's input (see the bottom half of this page in the DSK history: https://www.simplesevens.org/dsk/history/dsk11.htm)

Thanks John, very interesting interviews. So you actually had a chat with Pat Prince as well?

Edited April 21, 2022 by GregM