Considering radiator replacement

[ok7]

My first Post!

The car is an unfinished 2005 Brunton Stalker. 3800 SC engine.

 

I’m not fond of the radiator that is on my car. In replacing, I hope to be able to shorten/improve hoses routing and clean up the appearance maybe flow air better.

 

I know at one point Stalker Cars had a custom one designed and built, but through google searches, the company who built the radiator does not seem to be in business.

 

This is a radiator from a 80’a Hyundai Excel. Looking from the front the lower tank is very visible. Not very attractive. I think by using a side tank radiator, I can clean this up and open options for inlet and outlet locations.

 

 

 

The radiator sits at about a 25 degree angle. It seems this this was due to clearance on the lower outlet. Guessing I can easily get it to 15 degree. Maybe 10…

 

Not sure if I can, but I would like to bring the radiator top forward enough to allow for a rear mounted fan. I might even be able to mount the radiator perpendicular…

 

 

 

 

I’ve been trying to figure out how to measure and consider different radiator sizes. I’ve only come up with cutting blocks of Styrofoam and test fitting… do you have any suggestions?

 

I would like to stay away from a fully custom radiator. Looking online at Summit and Jegs for standard sizes. Where else should I look? Any manufacturer recommendations?

 

Looking for any input/suggestions/considerations

 

TIA -- Stan

[MV8]

I think the 04-06 Scion XB vertical flow racing 2 row radiator is going to be the best cooling for that nose. Make a cardboard pattern the overall size to test fit. Fab mounts from 2x1/8 steel strip drilled to accept grommets. The uppers can bolt on to the chassis with two 1/4 inch screws through a lapped 1/8 strip to weld to the chassis on each end of the radiator. Use a vw or other expansion (pressurized-not an overflow) tank as a fill point near the firewall, connected to the engine via a heater hose fitting on the engine.

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/374394348564?fits=Year%3A2004|Model%3AxB|Make%3AScion&hash=item572ba46414:g:fwMAAOSwakRjkYfR&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAA8NAJIzcEU7V0LQR3D%2FzaL81zBzoHmqtp%2B1ENxhLeBtGQr8f0LnmBqcPNJp53Z8VshuT1kxIMjZmLMbHy3ixC7RwFBI2ah0K5BgloW7Oa8HuqAkC1EOOzWi0oB0o61I0MqCUHcia4%2Fv%2Fl54mZoqSKTkpxdJcuoMA%2FH7bficinZxPrSSFrUN1s8u3angnuOxpnOX%2BwUjbcMnjSD4OYZv31iLDrqTiZaN1AM0fMKFwGurm7tGziJMUgxSXX2y3HQ1qaQg8orNR%2FurOnhkAisA9ch5SAOCnD4SV7akbIGttaSbfIsvZBSGY0FtCH30VOwolYQQ%3D%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR_iB9vCiYQ

[MV8]

Just noticed your outer tie rod/sphericals are missing spacers to prevent binding against the eye bolted to the spindle in bump and droop. Just fyi.

[ok7]

3 minutes ago, MV8 said:

Just noticed your outer tie rod/sphericals are missing spacers to prevent binding against the eye bolted to the spindle in bump and droop. Just fyi.

not ready to start on that puzzle yet! I have several concerns about spaces used... 
I will add this to my "list"...

THANK YOU

[ok7]

1 hour ago, MV8 said:

04-06 Scion XB vertical flow racing 2 row radiator

this may work, but on initial consideration I think that it will need the top corners "knocked off" but wont know till I make a template

 

[speedwagon]

I have the same radiator trimming problem with my superformance s-1.  But i plan to put a couple of bubbles in the nose cone since it is already in need of work after having an encounter with a cowboy welfare cow.  Just a thought that would make future replacement "off the shelf".

[MV8]

18 hours ago, ok7 said:

this may work, but on initial consideration I think that it will need the top corners "knocked off" but wont know till I make a template

 

That is the 08-15 XB cross flow and much wider. I don' think that will fit even if you modify the tank corners. If you completely remove the existing lower radiator frame mount, that should allow for a better, more vertical fit of the 04-06 radiator.

[S1Steve]

Speedwagon and Others, Finally packing my Superformance S1 away for the winter. So I see we’re talking radiator’s, I went to the S1 drawer and found a parts list send to me 20 years ago by the selling dealer, when Superformance actually cared about the S1 and their owners.. maybe this info will help..

Edited December 16, 2022 by JohnCh
rotated photo

[ok7]

I had found Griffin Radiators. They have some measuring instructions and a form to get a quote. I may use rough measurements to get some idea of cost.

Thanks!

[anduril3019]

Here's a manufacturer that list by size. Something I've been trying to find for a long time. If you click through on the dimensions, it will also give you the original application it's from.

 

Champion Cooling Systems

[MV8]

I used a champion radiator for a '60s ford econoline in my geo tracker with an v6-60/700r4 swap.

Generally core size does not include the tank dimensions.

[MV8]

What are the red horizontal (highest straight line inside nose) and the blue vertical (red line to bottom of nose) dims?

[ok7]

I took some measurements yesterday. I measured in the yellow plane thinking that a slight angle would give the largest height.

 

allowing for some clearance (about 1/2 to 1")  on all sides 16" high 20" wide. My plan is to go get some  rigid foam board insulation sheathing and cut a 16x20x? block to test fit.

 

After studying the inside shape of the hood, I doubt that knocking off the corners is really going to allow any gains in size. Again hoping test fit of foam board will tell.

 

Looking at fans, there are a lot of 16" ones. I've feelin that radiator needs to be at least 16" tall.

 

Reading about fans, the round fans do not take advantage of the full area of the radiator. I would really like to build sheet metal duct and mount the fan behind the radiator. This may be a real challenge with the tube frame basically in the same space... but I think something like this would work. I also find this radiator interesting in that it is a double pass and inlet and outlet are on the same side. My engine was originally transvers mounted, so both water pump inlet and outlet at back of the block are on the driver's side.  

 

[ok7]

On 12/15/2022 at 12:33 PM, MV8 said:

Use a vw or other expansion (pressurized-not an overflow) tank as a fill point near the firewall, connected to the engine via a heater hose fitting on the engine.

So originally, I was going to use a simple over flow tank. The coolant water outlet (near firewall) is the highest point of the cooling system. My plan WAS to put a filler like this on the engine outlet, and use an overflow catch can.

 

 

Been reading, and working on a NEW PLAN to use a pressurized expansion tank. A port near top of radiator, a second in the filler (above)  I'm a little confused on how to  plumb the expansion tank return line. 

 

It seems like the expansion tank return line needs some vacuum / suction. It also sems like this may be a delicate balance. Maybe just the restriction in the small diameter of the supply lines balance everything out... I'm a little unclear. The heater core and plumbing have been removed and ports freeze plugged. So going to need to find an alternate point to plumb the return line.

 

Also unclear if the expansion tank has to be the highest point of the system? If not there are lots of options. If it does, then the fire wall is probably the best option.

 

Guidance would be much appreciated!

 

[MV8]

Aftermarket metal shrouds restrict the airflow. Oem type shrouds typically have rubber check valves/doors that close when the fan operates creating a low pressure in the shroud and open when pressure is greater from higher speeds in the shroud to prevent restricting flow.

 Fans are usually smaller in one dimension than the advertised size so check the actual dims. The amp draw is much more important for determining capacity than the fan size or advertised cfm. Look for at least 20 amps and/or two-speeds.

The 04-06 scion still looks like the best fit, has both fittings on the same side and can be flipped upside down if the fittings are needed on the other side, though you could run them either way.

Tilting the rad can create an issue with the bottom frame tube in trying to get the rad as low as possible.

[MV8]

The expansion tank needs only one hose as it is all part of the pressurized system. Since you have the high point covered, an overflow would be fine without an expansion tank.

[MV8]

The expansion tank is typically the high point since it is also the filler but it does not have to be the high point if you have another filler.

[MV8]

The overflow can be low mounted.

[ok7]

37 minutes ago, MV8 said:

expansion tank needs only one hose

I'm under the impression that the expansion tank needs some flow to assist in bleeding air from points that might capture air. I can see the top of there radiator as having potential to capture air. That said a port near the top could be incorporated to evacuate air while filling the system.

[MV8]

Pockets caused by a particular application are a separate issue that can be addressed a number of ways, but an expansion tank is just an air pocket attached to the pressure side that gives expansion space for heated coolant without leaving the pressure side. Oems do not always have extra ports on the tank but some have many.