jqpix Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 Hello all. After a few years wanting a Lotus Seven, I found this little S3 powered by a 1600 Xflow and 4 spd tranny that looks promising. However, being the first time I'm face to face to one of them, I cannot even tell if it's real. According to the current owner (and I have no reasons to doubt) this is probably the lowest mileage, most authentic S3 out there. After some talking I learned that the exhaust pipe is not correct, the rear fenders are not original (see the square taillights), the windshield brackets might be not, and the hood... I'm not sure... it looks like a different material but it might be because someone tried to clean it with a brill-o sponge. Another thing that caught my attention was that the rear wheels are not centered under the rear arches, is that normal? The front cone and probably other parts were recently painted, so I don't know about the actual condition or originality of those. Other than that lights, instruments, wheels and tyres seem to be original and Made in UK. So, look at the pictures (http://flickr.com/gp/69489576@N04/y4Avi1/) and tell me what do you think... should I bit the bullet? Is it as original as advertised? Thanks all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 I would say that with out doubt the car is real, however the exhaust is incorrect as are the front indicators, the front nose cone, the suspension is not the correct color, wheels are correct but wrong color, the frame is supposed to be grey not silver, That concerns me. The frame was painted grey before it's skinned. The car has caterham rear fenders, the front wings are Lotus. The car has clearly had a major rebuild and although it's low millage its not that low. If you are looking for an original Lotus 7, walk away. We may have coming in th enxt few weeks a correct 69 Lotus 7 done 1800 miles from new. The car has been garaged from new one owner and never touched. its 100% original. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MHKflyer52 Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 (edited) jqpix, One thing to remember is all most any 7 you find on this side of the pond have been assembled by an enthusiast from a kit or has been rebuilt at some point in time. As Terry says there are some things that are not the norm from looking at the photos to me such as the color of the suspension parts and such but no two 7 are identical as they are all hand built and most owners have personalized them to their own taste even if they had someone else build the car for them. I would suggest that you shop around and look at more than one 7 and try several different ones on as they are like buying a pair of shoes and are unique and different than any other car you have ever looked at or bin in and that is just one of the things that make them special. What is important is if you like the car and the price is correct then go for it or shop around and find the car that fits your needs and price point. Again remember no two 7 are the same even the ones that Caterham builds today as they are all hand built and that is one of the things that makes them such a special and unique car but that is just my belief. Nice looking car but again that is just my belief. Have fun with your quest and ask all the questions you might come up with as there are a lot of knowledgeable folks out there that know these cars. Edited May 28, 2012 by MHKflyer52 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jqpix Posted May 28, 2012 Author Share Posted May 28, 2012 Thanks guys. I heard the car was built by lotus and came to america as a complete built LHD from the factory. The rear fenders where replaced after some damage to one of them. Terry, why do you say the front is not correct? How can you tell? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
75TwinCam Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 Did you check for the Arch Motors stamp on the frame? It will be on the top piece of the left hand footwell near the bracket for the clutch and brake pedals. Every frame is stamped by Arch with "AM ## ##"; the first numbers are the year produced (68, 69, or 70 for a genuine Lotus), and the second is the sequence number (where it is in that years production.) This page has some links that might help with identification and inspection. http://7faq.com/owbase/ow.asp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 Thanks guys. I heard the car was built by lotus and came to america as a complete built LHD from the factory. The rear fenders where replaced after some damage to one of them. Terry, why do you say the front is not correct? How can you tell? The side of the nose cone has to much shape in it. What color is the frame, it should be grey. An early none tampered and correct Lotus 7 S3 is worth in the region of $40k, most cars are not correct an have been messed around with, which detracts from their value. I would walk away from this car, it has 2 many issues. My advice is look at lots of cars before you jump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeanG Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 For all things related to Lotus Sevens see the email reflector lotus@se7ens.net http://www.simplesevens.com and the Historic Lotus Register John Watson. If it is a real Lotus Seven someone will likely have information on it. There is a lot of outright fraud in selling these cars as well as a lot of "fudging" for registration. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manik Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 What do the auction notes say? And did it sell? http://okotokscarauction.com/detail-page.php?1969-Lotus-7-12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverfox Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 Couldn't find the price but it looks like a genuine 1970 S3 1600 GT as was my third seven. Whether it has been restored to different colors and all is another topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jqpix Posted May 30, 2012 Author Share Posted May 30, 2012 Manik: you are good, but I'm trying to protect the seller's ID. Didn't sell, reserve was 30k, highest was 22. Silverfox: was originally plain with red wings. Another think that caught my attention was then serial number on the Lotus plate, it was poorly engraved by hand... Seemed to be correct though (LSB 25 something) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverfox Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 No comment on reserve but......30k ouch. I sold mine to California in 1973 for $800 - the buyer wanted it so he could join the half-time show which I understood included a parade of sevens around the football field at a big game - 49ers??. It does have the S3 GT features of hood scoop for down draft weber, no louvers, wheels, recess/dimple for front lower A-arm etc even the tires look like the original dunlops Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jqpix Posted May 31, 2012 Author Share Posted May 31, 2012 I know, for a car that costed 500 quids when released in 1957, is amazing it can reach those prices after 55 years. One has to question the issue of historical cost vs. Actual material cost. Is the bunch of nuts and bolts in a seven really worth that much if you remove the historical value? Probably not... And then... How can you put a pricetag on its historical side? And how much of that value is lost by having Caterham rear wings etc? And yes, I'm pretty sure the tyres are originals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danilo Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 Odd rebuild IMO. Beyond the previous observations. The side (of the engine compartment ) skins seem attached with Very Few pop rivets whereas OEM was every inch or so. As general indicator/window into the cleverness/skill of the rebuilder, NOT an encouraging purchase. Wayy Too Many $$ as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jqpix Posted June 1, 2012 Author Share Posted June 1, 2012 Danilo: In which picture # do you see the rivets issue? I think this car had a short, hard career in autocross. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danilo Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 And unfortunately rebuilt by an idiot intent on resale $$ ONLY. #JQ 267 Note that the wrap of the Ali skin over the top most Square frame tube has only 2? rivets visible. That's Definitely a build problem Mate. Again: I wouldn't touch it it with your Member let alone mine :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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