Blown reverse today

[andrew7]

Turned the car around to make it easier loading on the trailer, pulled the lever to engage the electric reverse to back into the driveway, first time worked and second time just made noise. I thought the chain jumped. I pulled the motor off to find the all 12 teeth on an Aluminum hub were broke off. I was packing so I figured I'd fix it after I got back from the rally. My dad started playing with it ended up fileing the hub to a hex and the spline to a smaller mating hex with a castle nut as the intermediate pc. I put it back together and it works.:hurray: The internal gears are aluminum and showing wear so I think a winter project will be in order, probably will try a starter motor. I started thinking what if it was an English reverse box, I don't think BROWN ships that fast. At least this system is still drivable if reverse goes away.

 

While planning route found out SR 441/71 from Knoxville to Sevierville is Chapman Hwy.

 

 

[slngsht]

without a reverse gear, how will you go back home? :jester:

[BusaLoco]

Hi Andrew.

One of my winter projects will be to make an electric reverser.

I do like your winch idea (operating on the power output shaft) , but I am investigating the idea of a starter drive at the half shaft.

What size (diameter) are your 2 "gears" (1 on the winch and 1 on the output shaft of the R1)?

Cheers!

Busa

[andrew7]

Hi Busa,

The starter is a great idea and is heavy duty. My winch inside is all aluminum gears. There are four gears; the one on the R1 output shaft and its mate are used camshaft gearset minus the chain. The crankshaft gear just happened to fit the R1s shaft. The other 2 gears from the jackshaft to the winch motor are from an old mountain bike gearset with a bicycle chain. I made it about 1:1 from the winch to jackshaft and the cam gearset is 3:1. I personally wouldn't build it this way again(a little to light) but it worked for my needs and PennDOT inspection.

 

I have a picture of what you want to build but can't find it now.

A 8" gear bolted to one half-shaft and a starter motor mounted on top of the diff unit is what I would build if I had the room and an independent rearend.

 

If you look at my first post date about the reverse, you'll notice it was broke and repaired before the rally but while unloading the 7 from the trailer down south some errand teeth locked up the winch motor. I still drove 324 miles touring Tenn. and N.C. in 2 days but without reverse. I could get a reverse box but don't like the idea that all the hp has to be transfer through the box to the drive wheels, when it goes, your waiting for parts.

When you make your system make sure that if it fails you don't need a flatbed. Check the U.K. forums for electric reverse and pics, they are years ahead of us. All my pics are blurry but I'll see what I can find.

[BusaLoco]

Here's a (very bad) pic of a chain drive diff with a "starter" reverser acting on a half shaft.

I'm thinking that something similar can be created for my Tbird halfshafts.

 

http://www.usa7s.com/aspnetforum/upload/1147725560_electic reverse for BEC Mini.jpg

[BusaLoco]

This one's really for Andrew but I thought I'd post it for everyone's mutual laughter.

Andrew I'm obsessed with reverse (as you know) and I still like your ATV winch idea. ... In fact I've gone out and gots me one!

But here's a twist for you to ponder.

I've been considering mounting 2 equal sized bike sprockets. One at the output shaft and one mounted on a (free wheeling) pulley on an AC Clutch (Electromagnetic Clutch) which will have the AC hub attached (welded) to the output of the winch.

 

http://www.usa7s.com/aspnetforum/upload/425670548_AC Clutch.jpg

 

The output shaft sprocket and AC Clutch Sprocket will be chain driven (and will free wheel) and the winch will be permanently mounted.

 

The winch will engage simultanious to the (E/M) AC Clutch. The question is do you think the AC Clutch has enough balls to stand the torque?

 

If this will work, I won't have to mess with cables and such! ... Also I think I can lock out the switch (only engages in neutral) so that I can't mess with reverse while vectoring forward.

 

What do you think?

 

OK, everyone can start rolling in the aisles now!

[drew...]

BusaLoco -

Rather than a AC clutch consider the 12 V PTO clutch off of a John Deere or Cub Cadet garden tractor, something in the 18-25 HP range. I would think it would handle a higher load then the AC clutch.

[andrew7]

Hi Busa,

I been a little preoccupied, see picture.

You have a 50/50 chance... it will or it won't. I think the AC clutch would hold up for AWHILE, its only going along for the ride so to speak. My concern is spool-up(rapid acceleration), plus the extra drag of the chain,sprockets and AC clutch. I personally don't like the always engaged(when your driving the sprockets and chain are turning).

I think it could work but I like the picture you posted with the starter mounted near the diff, I'd make that plan A. I've seen pictures of English BECs that were similar.

 

I'm going to invite someone from Yahoo Locost over here to share photos, he's building a BEC locost, in the same boat as us and from Pa.

 

http://www.usa7s.com/aspnetforum/upload/909077404_DS 026.jpg

[BusaLoco]

Hi Andrew,

Thanks for the posts! ... I can see you've been busy! ... You rule!

 

I've been looking at some British (Busa) Fury Build posts and one of them uses a DC motor with gear reduction and the gizmo looks something like this.

 

 

http://www.usa7s.com/aspnetforum/upload/762424906_reverse_mechanism_01.jpg

 

It uses a Starter Ring at the diff like this.

 

http://www.usa7s.com/aspnetforum/upload/1703272399_starter_ring_gear_at diff 01.jpg

 

The motor gets tucked in the tunnel like this.

 

http://www.usa7s.com/aspnetforum/upload/976356911_reverse_fitted_01.jpg

 

The mechanism works like this.

 

http://www.usa7s.com/aspnetforum/upload/917482754_reverse_fitted_02.jpg

and

http://www.usa7s.com/aspnetforum/upload/766525618_reverse_mounting_01.jpg

 

I've writen Tim Hoverd and he says it works fine.

 

Cheers!

[Hank]

Young, green, redneck engineer here. If I opt for the starter/ring gear above would I simply replace the two (2) driveshafts and reverse box with a single driveshaft for my Megabusa? My kit hasn't arrived yet, so I don't know what angles I am working with between the reverse box, engine, and rearend.

[BusaLoco]

I'm pretty sure you won't be using a straight drive shaft.

As you know the output shaft on the Busa sits on the starboard side of the engine and a straight drive shaft just won't fit.

Based on my dilemma (see the thread you are reading) the options were to do the electric starter and ring gear option, the electric winch (gear) and chain, or as just pay the money and buy a Quaife box.

I bought the Quaife.

If you are interested in exploring the starter and ring gear option there is a very nice fellow at Fisher Fury USA ( http://www.furyusa.com/ ) that told me that he can adapt a (Fury) electric starter reverse for a se7en.

By the way, I managed to incorporate most of the original "bike" drive shaft in the Quaife mod. I managed to save the front portion (the long telecoping bit) and install the Quaife box in the tunnel. I had to a couple of very short drive shafts made to mate to the Quaife Box.

[Hank]

I don't follow your post, BusaLoco. From the 2 pictures below it looks like a straight damn shot from the face of the rear differential flange to the output flange of the engine.

 

http://www.megabusa.co.uk/photos/gallery/2007%2007%2030/CIMG3201.JPG

Tunnel looks pretty straight.

 

http://www.megabusa.co.uk/photos/gallery/2007%2008%2001/CIMG3256.JPG

Westfield reverse box looks to be vertically in-line.

 

Once I get my kit it will be much easier to visualize what you are trying to tell me.

 

[BusaLoco]

Maybe it's different with the Westfield but in our car the busa engine's output shaft lies on the right side of the "centrline" and the drive shaft rides quite close to the vertical tubeframing on the passenger side (less than 1/2 inch). In fact the original drive shaft for our car ran nearly parallel to the passenger side of the tunnel until it met a universal joint and yoke, then it ran back (down the center of the tunnel) to meet the diff.

Take a look at this Westfield build. It might be helpful. ...

http://www.megablade.org.uk/chassis.php

Here's how you're box will sit in the tunnel

http://www.megablade.org.uk/manip/manip_build%20021.jpg

 

This is a blade engine but you can see where the output shaft sits

 

http://www.megablade.org.uk/manip/manip_build%20041.jpg

 

Here's another Westfield Busa build ... http://www.megabusa-build.co.uk/diary.php?category_id=4

 

Here you can see exactly where the drive shaft will sit

 

http://www.megabusa-build.co.uk/diary_images/100_0990.jpg

 

Hope this helps!

Good Luck with your build!

 

[Ian7]

One of the posts expressed concern about an ATV winch having enough 'stones' to move the car.

 

See this car lift : http://mktechnologies.com/products/mkt-aframe.htm

 

we've got one, works superbly; if it'll lift, it'll certainly 'roll' a car backwards.

 

call Marty @ MK, he'll tell you what brand, etc.

 

cheers

[Spam16v]

Mcmaster.com lists ring gears, but what pitch is everyone using?