ZTEC Hard Starting

[Road Ready]

I've been having a persistent problem with hard starting with my ZETEC-engined Seven.

 

When I checked the electrical system that sends signals to the fuel injection system using a noid light test kit, I found that I typically got only one good flash and then some weak ones (if any).

 

Codes shown: P0720

P0453

P0443

P1451

 

My car has one of those MSD devices screwed to the firewall. I don't even know what it does! I'm only asking about that because it's so accessible.

 

The first start after the build was a disaster as there was a bad short in or around the starter and melted some wiring. We've got that straightened out but still have this hard start problem.

 

Once finally started, the car runs great!

 

What say you ZETEC geniuses?

[waltermitty]

Any way to check fuel pressure at the fuel rail.

[Klasik-69]

Check the crank sensor. It can get loose (ask me how I know). Also check the connector at the crank sensor. FYI , the crank sensor is on the driver's side and if you have headers, will be under the headers pointing towards the flywheel. A mere fraction of an inch separation will cause it to fail and is especially prone to not fire while cranking. Good luck.

[Nick OTeen]

My car has one of those MSD devices screwed to the firewall. I don't even know what it does! I'm only asking about that because it's so accessible.

My Caterham is powered by a Zetec SVT engine and has an MSD tach adapter attached to the firewall. Is that what is on the firewall of your car? It's only function is to take a signal from the ECU and convert it to one the tach can use.

[hairball29]

I'm also getting the hard-to-start problem with my 2005 SVT motor car. It can take over a minute of cranking, over several attempts, to start. usually it'll fire perhaps one cylinder for a bit until it eventually starts. After that, it runs pretty well. Anyone find any solutions?

[slomove]

I'm also getting the hard-to-start problem with my 2005 SVT motor car. It can take over a minute of cranking, over several attempts, to start. usually it'll fire perhaps one cylinder for a bit until it eventually starts. After that, it runs pretty well. Anyone find any solutions?

I don't want to sound flippant but for aftermarket ECU the solution is to get everything right:

- correct and stable fuel pressure

- correct injectors

- balanced intake (for ITB)

- correct fueling and ignition map

- reasonable startup enrichment

- reasonable cooling and air temperature compensation

- calibrated baro compensation (if present)

- correct ignition timing calibration

- surely there is more

If any of that is off, this can result in bad starting, bad running, high fuel consumption, if unlucky even not running at all or engine damage.

It also assumes the basics (ignition spark and injector pulses) are working properly and the spark plugs are O.K.

Edited September 28, 2017 by slomove

[hairball29]

Hi, Slomove

 

That's a good idea and I have checked with Megasquirt about that. The problem for me at least, is that they say their ECU is not for road cars and mine has to go through emissions, which means an OBD read every year and a MIL must be present and functional on the dash. I think this would work for owners who don't have to jump this hoop, or have older cars that are exempt.

[hairball29]

i took my car to a ford performance mechanic. His solution to my hard-starting issue was to add a fuel check valve. I think there's meant to be one in the fuel pump, but if so it appears to have failed, so he added another in line to keep the fuel pressure in the rail and available when starting.

[1turbofocus]

If the Zetec or SVT guys have a stock Ford ECU I can help the hard start and make the engines safer and make better performance

 

The Focus , ZX2 , Contour , SVT use a system with a Fuel Pump Driver Module and if this isnt used and the FP are hard wired to the switch then it creates issues , Mostly cranking issues

 

You can rig a switch to the FP where you crank then flip the switch and it works pretty good that way , its closer to how the stock ECU is set up which turns the fuel psi off after 1.5 to 3 Sec after key is turned on till it sees 400-450 RPM then FP turns back on

 

If your running a standalone there is setting in there to correct this with crank time , IAT ,ECT etc

 

As well as the list above needs to be correct , I feel a wideband air fuel gauge in the Caterhams is a must but there rarely added , this would help a lot with issues like this

 

Tom

Edited October 13, 2017 by 1turbofocus

[speedwagon]

will add to turbofocus's statement above, a wideband a/f meter should be in every tool box (and it is even of more use when using carbs.

[hairball29]

Just to add an update to my hard starting issue on my 05 SVT car. For some reason, if i attach something that draws power before the car starts, such as an accessory socket and charger for my cell phone, or my new wideband A/F gauge, i get trouble. At first i thought i had used a positive wire meant for something else and upset the ECU, but upon rewiring the device between a new positive wire from the battery, and what appears to be a factory earth point (already has several earths from the loom connected to it) it stops the car starting.

 

I haven't done anything else to investigate yet, but the symptoms are that it cranks-fires-dies ad infinitum. I also measured the voltage between the FPDM and the fuel pump which should start at 6v upon ignition, then go to 6-8v when the engine fires but during this weird non-starting condition, the ignition 6v comes and goes as it should, but the 8v to keep the motor running vanishes. During logging there were some other ECU data points missing such as RPM, cam position and a few others, but the whole thing meant i was going nowhere.

 

I have no idea why this would happen. my only thought is that somehow the devices are interfering with the PATS under the dash since they're close to each other, or there's an earthing issue somewhere. I'll report back if i solve it.

[Road Ready]

I'm pretty sure that my problem is not fuel-related.

 

I'm starting to delve back into the problem. My noid light test showed weak/intermittent signals going to the injectors. Once it starts it runs great. I'm wondering it it could be something as simple as the battery.

 

What was in there was a little 310 CC battery that is a long way from filling up the space allotted. What I'm looking for is the biggest, baddest, most powerful battery that will fit into the space: L 7" x W 4 5/8" x H 7" Any suggestions? I know I've asked you guys here about this before; my bad for not acting on your suggestions already.

[Taber10]

. What I'm looking for is the biggest, baddest, most powerful battery that will fit into the space: L 7" x W 4 5/8" x H 7" Any suggestions?

 

I use an Odyssey Model #PC680MJ-A in my Caterham. Fits the space and provides LOTS of cranking power.

 

Taber

[breezy7]

Are you using the stock ECU and PATS? If so and the problem only happens when starting and runs fine once running I would look at the PATS. It controls the injectors during starts and is out of play once running. A similar problem was fixed here post #39:

http://www.usa7s.net/vb/showthread.php?11799-Ongoing-electrical-problem-anyone-want-a-challenge!-)/page4