IamScotticus Posted May 25, 2022 Share Posted May 25, 2022 (edited) I have this 26 yo (Girling?) MC that should probably be replaced for safety reasons. I don't know if its serviceable, but even so, this model so obscure the only thing i can find for parts reference are notes that this is a Caterham and Morgan exclusive by Girling. Cat not offering any support for it. I might be able to find a kit from Morgan. But why, really? In its best form its still a 50/50 on a disc/drum car (capacity imbalance). Shall I put on something more supported and better balanced? Not tracking. Street only. Edited August 22, 2023 by IamScotticus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sltous Posted May 25, 2022 Share Posted May 25, 2022 Do you have a P/N for it? If it is a Girling 74660152 I was able to get a replacement seal kit for same from Ken @ Dave Bean. P/N SP7657 for the seal kit. Replacement TRW assembly sketch as Ken provided to me of the TRW part is attached. M10x1.00 ports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IamScotticus Posted May 25, 2022 Author Share Posted May 25, 2022 Yes, that is the item. Ken is awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sltous Posted May 25, 2022 Share Posted May 25, 2022 (edited) As a follow up note if you are planning to replace rather than rebuild, the 0.7" bore Girling 74660152/TRW cylinders are a drop in replacement for the 0.8" bore AP Racing CP4627-2PRM100 MCYLT-13/16xSTL INTPLA / CC uprated master cylinder. Edited May 25, 2022 by sltous Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MV8 Posted May 26, 2022 Share Posted May 26, 2022 I'd change it for something more common domestically with a bore commensurate with the pedal effort and travel and adapters if needed to retain the existing lines or you can buy new tube nuts separately that are compatible with the tube od (3/16 probably) and cut and flare or make new lines. The original type reservoir may not be available if you break it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MV8 Posted May 26, 2022 Share Posted May 26, 2022 Pushrod retention can be a consideration as a power brake application usually does not have any relief in the piston to hang on to a pushrod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IamScotticus Posted May 26, 2022 Author Share Posted May 26, 2022 8 hours ago, MV8 said: Pushrod retention can be a consideration as a power brake application usually does not have any relief in the piston to hang on to a pushrod. are you saying that on MCs used with vaccuum assist may not have enough depth for the piston rod to keep it from falling upon release? As in a very short stroke system? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MV8 Posted May 26, 2022 Share Posted May 26, 2022 No, I'm saying the dry side of the piston on a master made only for power brake systems may not have any way to retain the end of a pedal push rod. With a booster, only the push rod end is exposed and is usually adjustable in length to match the distance to the piston. With manual brakes, the pedal push rod is usually retained by a clip of some kind/type in the dry side of the master piston. It is usually possible to limit pedal travel and adjust push rod length so the rod cannot come out of the cupped area of the piston but it is a consideration. There cannot be any preload on the full retracted piston. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianE Posted August 19, 2023 Share Posted August 19, 2023 I realize it has been a bit over a year since there have been any updates to this post but I was curious if anyone has ever come up with a replacement for the Girling 74660152 MC? I contacted AP Racing and the CP4627 is no longer available, only rebuild kits. I have some feelers out for a rebuild kit for the Girling 74660152 but just in case the MC cannot be rebuilt I would like to find a replacement. Unfortunately MCs with a .7" bore seem to be far and few between. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MV8 Posted August 19, 2023 Share Posted August 19, 2023 Morgan Plus 4 77-93. An odd-ball due to the mounting flange orientation. Pricey: https://www.ebay.com/itm/253235047808?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-213727-13078-0&mkcid=2&itemid=253235047808&targetid=4580153136941820&device=c&mktype=&googleloc=&poi=&campaignid=437225723&mkgroupid=1224856224320864&rlsatarget=pla-4580153136941820&abcId=9300907&merchantid=51291&msclkid=38b577903e761af7aedc137124d0df75 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianE Posted August 19, 2023 Share Posted August 19, 2023 2 hours ago, MV8 said: Morgan Plus 4 77-93. An odd-ball due to the mounting flange orientation. Pricey: https://www.ebay.com/itm/253235047808?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-213727-13078-0&mkcid=2&itemid=253235047808&targetid=4580153136941820&device=c&mktype=&googleloc=&poi=&campaignid=437225723&mkgroupid=1224856224320864&rlsatarget=pla-4580153136941820&abcId=9300907&merchantid=51291&msclkid=38b577903e761af7aedc137124d0df75 Thank you very much!!! I wonder who in the world produces them?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbcollier Posted August 20, 2023 Share Posted August 20, 2023 Dual-circuit, 0.70 master cylinders were used in Triumph Spitfires. TRW replacements are widely available from the usual British sports car parts suppliers. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianE Posted August 20, 2023 Share Posted August 20, 2023 (edited) Thank you John and hello from the Europa list as well! Would you know if the ports on the Spitfire MC are M10x1.00? Edited August 20, 2023 by BrianE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbcollier Posted August 20, 2023 Share Posted August 20, 2023 The later ones were. Not sure if the 0.70 master was made with metric ports or not. Pretty simple to make up short adapters, if required. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MV8 Posted August 20, 2023 Share Posted August 20, 2023 (edited) The Spitfire mk4 1500 brake master cylinder mount is sloped 25-30 degrees and the reservoir is canted to compensate. Reduced fluid capacity when mounted to a CAT but it might work ok. It looks like Morgan used the Spitfire master body but with their own reservoir. The Morgan and Spitfire reservoirs appear interchangeable. A remote reservoir could also be adapted without modification to the master body. Originality is great and has its place but funny in that CAT seemed to use whatever components they could get their hands on at the time. Edited August 27, 2023 by MV8 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbcollier Posted August 20, 2023 Share Posted August 20, 2023 Did a bit of digging. Imperial version: https://mossmotors.com/580-100-brake-master-cylinder-large-cap-trw-lucas-brand-0-70-bore Metric version: https://mossmotors.com/580-115-brake-master-cylinder-70-bore-trw Ports may not be on the same side requiring either short adapters or new pipes. Yes, the reservoir ends up “slanted”, reducing capacity somewhat. Not a big deal in actual use. MV8: interested if you have a link for the Morgan reservoir and which cylinder it fits on. (I suspect the later metric one) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MV8 Posted August 20, 2023 Share Posted August 20, 2023 (edited) I've not seen the Morgan Plus 4 reservoir offered separately. It appears interchangeable with the mk4 1500; not the earlier large cap with untapped bosses in the cylinder body. Edited August 27, 2023 by MV8 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianE Posted August 20, 2023 Share Posted August 20, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, jbcollier said: Did a bit of digging. Imperial version: https://mossmotors.com/580-100-brake-master-cylinder-large-cap-trw-lucas-brand-0-70-bore Metric version: https://mossmotors.com/580-115-brake-master-cylinder-70-bore-trw Ports may not be on the same side requiring either short adapters or new pipes. Yes, the reservoir ends up “slanted”, reducing capacity somewhat. Not a big deal in actual use. MV8: interested if you have a link for the Morgan reservoir and which cylinder it fits on. (I suspect the later metric one) John, Thank you! I'm curious, how were you able to determine one was imperial and the other metric since I did not see any mention of it on the Moss Motors website. Was it the years that made the difference? Also, the ports are on the same side. Brian Edited August 20, 2023 by BrianE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianE Posted August 20, 2023 Share Posted August 20, 2023 MV8, Thank you for the replies! I wonder why a MC would be sold with untapped bosses unless it was for the purpose of either imperial/metric setups. I, personally, would be a bit nervous about tapping threads in a master cylinder even though I have used taps fairly extensively over the years. You bring up an interesting point though, I could always get a Spitfire MC and swap the reservoir from the one I currenty have in my Cat provided it is more than just an appearance that they are interchangeable! Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianE Posted August 20, 2023 Share Posted August 20, 2023 4 hours ago, MV8 said: CAT seemed to use whatever components they could get their hands on at the time. In true Lotus fashion! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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