360S S3 "Yellowjacket" Build in Upstate SC

[Yoram]

4 hours ago, IamScotticus said:

You can be annoying and lag several car lengths behind.  If Bubba pulls up  you have room to start rolling before he does. 

being that far back is so annoying, he won't forget you're there.

 

Round where I live an annoyed Bubba might pull a gun.  I'd rather be more passive aggressive... 

[Yoram]

A few fixes, tweaks, findings...

 

Tach misreading

 

I noticed that the tach wouldn't read above about 1200 RPM when I revved the engine to what sounded like 4000 to 5000.  (I do not rev it that way yet but did briefly under no load just to verify as was not seeing almost any response.). Josh Robbins suspected tach was set for the 420 instead of my 360.  Per his guidance I pulled it out and set dipswitch #2 in the back to off.  That took care of it.

 

 

Immobilizer drama

 

Right after/due to the tach fix, I encountered one of the more annoying conditions to date - no start.  It first started fine right after the fix when the tach was still dangling off the dash.  Then, after I tucked everything back in and installed back the steering wheel the car wouldn't start - no response at all from the red button.

Long story short (and another Josh R correct guess) - while futzing behind the dash I dislodged the Immobilizer antenna.

 

 

I now have it secured back with a zip tie around the ignition switch near its face, but there are times I need to shove the little Sterling fob backwards towards the antenna for the system to acknowledge it.

I already deeply hate the Immobilizer and want to remove it altogether or at least disable it permanently.

Saw some posts on the forum on the topic from about a year ago and also shared my sentiments with Josh R.  He is acutely aware and lobbying Caterham to eliminate it from future US spec cars.

Planning to revisit once I get through most of the rest of the To Do list.  

 

 

Idle speed adjustment

 

Edited - originally mis-reported due to dyslexia/brain fart.  Revisited and addressed per the below.

Again per Josh, the voltage across the throttle position sensor at idle should read 1.13V.  Stuck back-probes in the back of the connector and it showed 1.3V a perfect 1.13V with maybe a +/- 0.003V fluctuation.  Left it alone.  This means the throttle opening needed to be reduced.

Started by screwing in the stopper screw (vertical screw under the inboard end of the throttle, need to turn engine off and rotate the throttle open to access) all the way down.

Then adjusted and retightened the throttle cable length (nuts in front of the throttle pivot) to ~1.1V.  Finally backed the stopper screw up in small increments until reached 1.13V and tightened the nut underneath it.

 

Cable length adjustment nuts on the left, stopper screw on the right under the end of the cable.

 

 

 

 

The wires to back-probe are the white/gray (center) and the pink/black (bottom)

 

 

 

As a result of the small cable length adjustment, I am now missing 2 deg of full throttle opening as measured with a digital level on the throttle lever (pedal stop hits before throttle stop). I think this is quite good and am leaving it as is.  You don't want the throttle cable to tug against the throttle stop under the weight of your foot.

 

Dipstick misreading

 

I believe I mentioned in a previous post that while I know I have exactly 4.75 quarts in the sump, the dipstick was barely registering.

I cut just about 1" off the bottom of the guide hose in two steps and the oil level now reads ~1/3 of the range.  Obviously the ID of the guide hose is bigger than the OD of the dipstick so they are not behaving like a push-pull (e.g., bicycle brake) cable, and there is room in the hose for the dipstick to bend more than the hose and therefore a hose length change does not translate to an equal change in dipstick reading.

So to reach perfect calibration I need to cut more off the hose.  Problem is that shortening the hose reduces its bend and gets it closer to the steering shaft.  It is now about 3/8" away.  Yes, there are ways to pull it away but I don't feel like disassembling the plenum to dive in there.  So I'm leaving it alone for now and will await an opportunity or inspiration to revisit.

Mental note for now:  1/3 of dipstick range is Full!

 

 

Open issue (or not?):  Coolant temp

 

Took a 10 minute drive in the neighborhood yesterday with my good friend and neighbor, leisurely pace but between the two of us around 400 lb payload...

The coolant temp rose up to and settled not much below 110C (end of the "OK zone").  On the upside, coolant level is now stable near the Max mark and no leaks.

Josh had mentioned that the Fords run hot -- up to 105-106C.

Concern is it was maybe 70-75F outside and light load... What would happen at 100F charging up the mountains.

Wondering what temps folks with 360 and 420 cars are seeing.

 

 

Upcoming tweaks:  Side mirrors, floor mat studs, map pocket, strobe light+mast?

 

 

Cheers!

 

 

Edited October 16, 2023 by Yoram

[MV8]

Operating strobes when not acting in an official capacity is usually not legal. Equipping with strobes may also be an issue. It varies. Check your state code. Even if it is legal, you will probably be pulled over anyway. Make sure you are not acting in a way that would normally be accompanied by the use of strobes/flashing lights. If any traffic ahead gets a glimpse of a strobe flashing, expect it to drastically slow even if not speeding. Some states have low speed vehicles that are required to have strobes.

 

As for monster trucks, there is no PC cure yet for Napoleon Syndrome. Why do I drive a tiny car? I'm compensating. How many clowns does it hold? At least one.

 

Seriously though, sometimes it is better to get away from tailgaters or noticeably bad drivers by pulling over for a moment, don't cross railroad tracks, don't leave the house, etc. Like poo, keep it at a distance and try not to get any on you.

 

Gas stations are another problem. I've approached drivers in suvs about to leave to ensure they know the tiny car is sitting at the pump behind them.

Edited October 15, 2023 by MV8

[CharlesG]

For better visibility, something like this may work for you; https://www.buggywhip.com/collections/fiberglass-whips/products/fiberglass-whips-with-lamp-holder

[Yoram]

8 hours ago, MV8 said:

Operating strobes when not acting in an official capacity is usually not legal. Equipping with strobes may also be an issue. It varies. Check your state code. Even if it is legal, you will probably be pulled over anyway. Make sure you are not acting in a way that would normally be accompanied by the use of strobes/flashing lights. If any traffic ahead gets a glimpse of a strobe flashing, expect it to drastically slow even if not speeding. Some states have low speed vehicles that are required to have strobes.

 

As for monster trucks, there is no PC cure yet for Napoleon Syndrome. Why do I drive a tiny car? I'm compensating. How many clowns does it hold? At least one.

 

Seriously though, sometimes it is better to get away from tailgaters or noticeably bad drivers by pulling over for a moment, don't cross railroad tracks, don't leave the house, etc. Like poo, keep it at a distance and try not to get any on you.

 

Gas stations are another problem. I've approached drivers in suvs about to leave to ensure they know the tiny car is sitting at the pump behind them.

  Very funny!!

 

Yup.  All very good points.  I'll probably go with a bright constant amber light, not a strobe.  But then again... looking at what all is driving down the road in these parts... blue headlights, purple neons, light bars, lift kits in front only aiming at the sky, flesh cutting spikes out the wheels etc etc, I doubt anyone will give a $hit about my little strobe....

 

 

[ianashdown]

A loud exhaust does the job too!  Thats what all the Harley riders rely on here to be ‘noticed’ on the road!

 

Ian

[Renottse]

A thought from the parallel universe of  motorcycles where being “seen” is also a common concern. 

 

Ive used the Clearwater bille brake light on my bikes and as my wife commented “ that’s obnoxiously bright when braking “, which is what it’s designed to be. 

 

It is kinda bright when not braking and mounted low on the number plate so in the ball park of a se7en’s height. 
 

https://www.clearwaterlights.com/products/billie-brake-light

 

However the unintended consequence was, if I stayed on the brake at a stop light the person behind me would creep closer to block the light, daytime 60% would creep, nighttime 90%. Observed that bigger vehicles didn’t get as close due to blocking the light earlier. 

 

Had thought about putting a couple on the roll bar of ours but I know exactly what would happen. 

[Yoram]

11 hours ago, CharlesG said:

For better visibility, something like this may work for you; https://www.buggywhip.com/collections/fiberglass-whips/products/fiberglass-whips-with-lamp-holder

This looks awesome!  Says it has a lamp holder and obviously a hollow mast for wires!  Bookmarked!  Definitely a candidate.

Thanks a bunch!!

[Yoram]

1 hour ago, Renottse said:

A thought from the parallel universe of  motorcycles where being “seen” is also a common concern. 

 

Ive used the Clearwater bille brake light on my bikes and as my wife commented “ that’s obnoxiously bright when braking “, which is what it’s designed to be. 

 

It is kinda bright when not braking and mounted low on the number plate so in the ball park of a se7en’s height. 
 

https://www.clearwaterlights.com/products/billie-brake-light

 

However the unintended consequence was, if I stayed on the brake at a stop light the person behind me would creep closer to block the light, daytime 60% would creep, nighttime 90%. Observed that bigger vehicles didn’t get as close due to blocking the light earlier. 

 

Had thought about putting a couple on the roll bar of ours but I know exactly what would happen. 

Yeah, I see the issue... I don't want it to be super bright, so I think I am getting off the strobe idea, but I want it to be really high up, above the hood height of the common monster truck.  So in my mind some sort of a mast, pole, or whip is a prerequisite, and hopefully hollow to run wires up to a small yet reasonably bright omni-directional light.

 

Thanks for sharing this!

 

[Yoram]

5 hours ago, Yoram said:

  Very funny!!

 

Yup.  All very good points.  I'll probably go with a bright constant amber light, not a strobe.  But then again... looking at what all is driving down the road in these parts... blue headlights, purple neons, light bars, lift kits in front only aiming at the sky, flesh cutting spikes out the wheels etc etc, I doubt anyone will give a $hit about my little strobe....

 

 

P.S., A pet peeve of mine is flatbed tow trucks driving around with their "emergency" white/yellow lights on.  I get it when they are pulling over, loading and pulling out, but driving with a car (not an oversize load) strapped on a flatbed is no different than a truck with any standard load.  I guess if they can get away with it I should be able to as well with my little life saving strobe (should I still decide to go that way).  

[ianashdown]

Could you mount that as a 3rd brake light on the Roll Cage?

 

Ian

[ralph]

For builders in CA (I have no clue about SC DMV/reg rules), apparently the law has changed and you are *required* to have a 3rd brake light (top of roll bar being the logical location for it).  I can't say this was even mentioned in any of the in-person or photo-based "inspections" of my car, but apparently, that's the expectation now (and it would be nice if CC updated the kits for it). 

 

I got a relatively cheap LED bar, mounted it via barrel bolts via existing holes in the roll bar and zip-tied the wires down through the boot to splice them into the left rear taillight -- pretty simple.  Regardless where it's a legal requirement, it does seem like a prudent step to avoid being too invisible out there...

[Yoram]

59 minutes ago, ianashdown said:

Could you mount that as a 3rd brake light on the Roll Cage?

 

Ian

Yes, but I want it to be higher.  Again, my biggest concern is being completely hidden in front of one of those jacked up (or even not jacked up) "personal" trucks.  I am a bit less concerned about being visible from a distance with lights on and my yellow wings...So it will need to be some kind of a rod or pole sticking above the roll bar.  I was thinking of mounting a pole/whip at the unused LH shoulder harness point.  

 

Thanks!

 

Yoram

 

Edited October 16, 2023 by Yoram

[Yoram]

51 minutes ago, ralph said:

For builders in CA (I have no clue about SC DMV/reg rules), apparently the law has changed and you are *required* to have a 3rd brake light (top of roll bar being the logical location for it).  I can't say this was even mentioned in any of the in-person or photo-based "inspections" of my car, but apparently, that's the expectation now (and it would be nice if CC updated the kits for it). 

 

I got a relatively cheap LED bar, mounted it via barrel bolts via existing holes in the roll bar and zip-tied the wires down through the boot to splice them into the left rear taillight -- pretty simple.  Regardless where it's a legal requirement, it does seem like a prudent step to avoid being too invisible out there...

Good tips about splicing into the rear lights!  Did you run the wires inside the roll bar or zip tied to it?

My car does not have a center brake light at this stage nor side mirrors yet.

I have submitted the paperwork for titling and registration last week and don't know how this process will play out.  Generally SC is quite lax but I definitely plan on having a center brake light and side mirrors, regardless.
Just in case, I ran a spare double wire through the tunnel before covering it up and have the front few feet bundled up under the dash and the rear few feet bundled under the trunk floor -- if I decide to tap into the power supply to the relays and fuses and use a relay (like for trailer lights) or such.

[Renottse]

“tongue in cheek”

 

There is always this extreme…

 

 

On a serious note, you do kinda just get used to cars/trucks being close and your pre-wired for the next evolution… still, just for the giggle factor I’d love to see a set on a se7en :)

[KnifeySpoony]

22 hours ago, Yoram said:

 

 

Wondering what temps folks with 360 and 420 cars are seeing.

 

 

 

I have a digital (Spa designs) gauge on my 420R. At steady state while moving faster than say ~35mph, water temp is extremely steady at 197, no matter the ambient temp. At slower speeds the temp climbs. In stop/go traffic, or idling at a light in warm weather, temp will rise until 209, then the fan kicks on, then it will continue to rise until it peaks at around 213 or so, then dip down to 205 when the fan kicks off, then the cycle continues.

[Yoram]

3 minutes ago, KnifeySpoony said:

I have a digital (Spa designs) gauge on my 420R. At steady state while moving faster than say ~35mph, water temp is extremely steady at 197 (92C), no matter the ambient temp. At slower speeds the temp climbs. In stop/go traffic, or idling at a light in warm weather, temp will rise until 209 (98C), then the fan kicks on, then it will continue to rise until it peaks at around 213 (101C) or so, then dip down to 205 (96C) when the fan kicks off, then the cycle continues.

Thank you!!!!  Converted above to Celsius...

Very helpful!  Looks like yours in not getting as hot as mine.  My fan kicks in and keeps it in the white (non red) zone but a bit higher than I'd expect.  I'm wondering whether my thermostat is too high.  I also read about folks putting 85C thermostats in place of the standard oner which is referred to as 100C.

Found a very interesting writeup here:  https://purplemeanie.co.uk/index.php/2017/10/21/build-session-27-more-bleeding-coolant/

One idea I got there is to confirm the coolant temp with an OBD II scanner, which I may do next.

We'll see what Josh Robbins says...

 

Thanks again!

 

[ralph]

13 hours ago, Yoram said:

Good tips about splicing into the rear lights!  Did you run the wires inside the roll bar or zip tied to it?

My car does not have a center brake light at this stage nor side mirrors yet.

I have submitted the paperwork for titling and registration last week and don't know how this process will play out.  Generally SC is quite lax but I definitely plan on having a center brake light and side mirrors, regardless.
Just in case, I ran a spare double wire through the tunnel before covering it up and have the front few feet bundled up under the dash and the rear few feet bundled under the trunk floor -- if I decide to tap into the power supply to the relays and fuses and use a relay (like for trailer lights) or such.

 

I just zip-tied the wires down the roll bar; the zip ties don't really stand out now because I hung a small fire extinguisher on the same rail.  I got a light that was wide enough to mount to the existing holes in the bar.  The light I got really doesn't want to be installed in pieces (light is secured to the case with screws that are only accessible from the back of the case, which is up against the bar.  To mount it in assembled form, I used barrel-nuts with square-head bolts on the inside of the light case (since you can't get a wrench on those to tighten -- with the square head flush up against the edge of the case, the bolts won't turn, and you can just pop an allen key in the barrel-nut side to secure them). 

 

Running a wire all the way to the fuse block is probably overkill -- LEDs are pretty low-Watt things that can operate without issue by tapping into one of the existing brake light wire pairs.  I don't have pics of the splice for power, but you can use parallel or t-type tap splicers pretty easily -- just have to find the right wires with a multimeter.  I chose the parallel type as they are more compact.  You can use that wire you ran through the tunnel to put a 139dB Stebel Nautilus air-horn aimed out the back as a retaliatory implement; I mean, that's what *I* would do with that wire...

 

RE: side mirrors, the standard ones that ship with the kit are garbage -- they block more forward view (larger), and show less rearward view (flat, not convex); plus you can't secure them without removing the glass which has about a 2% success rate...the manual might as well say "unpack mirrors, smash with hammer".  Get a pair of the convex ones used with the aero screen.  As you can see below, they can mount to the windscreen fine, you just lose the ability to swing the doors all the way open unless you get a pair of eccles mounts (which effectively makes the mirror part of the door); I don't mind not swinging the doors all the way open, and prefer the stability of the windscreen frame mount.

 

[MV8]

The fan control settings determine how hot it will get. The thermostat opening temp should be 5f or more degrees less than the fan OFF temp, to ensure the fan will cycle and not stay on. The fan ON temp should be 10f or more above the OFF to prevent short cycling the fan. The greater the coolant capacity and/or cooling efficiency, the slower the temp changes / cycling will be.

 

These may be ecu controlled on your car or a standalone sensor. If it is ecu controlled and you can't change it, a standalone sensor could be used. I prefer a 180-192f stat temp.

[Yoram]

5 hours ago, ralph said:

 

I just zip-tied the wires down the roll bar; the zip ties don't really stand out now because I hung a small fire extinguisher on the same rail.  I got a light that was wide enough to mount to the existing holes in the bar.  The light I got really doesn't want to be installed in pieces (light is secured to the case with screws that are only accessible from the back of the case, which is up against the bar.  To mount it in assembled form, I used barrel-nuts with square-head bolts on the inside of the light case (since you can't get a wrench on those to tighten -- with the square head flush up against the edge of the case, the bolts won't turn, and you can just pop an allen key in the barrel-nut side to secure them). 

 

Running a wire all the way to the fuse block is probably overkill -- LEDs are pretty low-Watt things that can operate without issue by tapping into one of the existing brake light wire pairs.  I don't have pics of the splice for power, but you can use parallel or t-type tap splicers pretty easily -- just have to find the right wires with a multimeter.  I chose the parallel type as they are more compact.  You can use that wire you ran through the tunnel to put a 139dB Stebel Nautilus air-horn aimed out the back as a retaliatory implement; I mean, that's what *I* would do with that wire...

 

RE: side mirrors, the standard ones that ship with the kit are garbage -- they block more forward view (larger), and show less rearward view (flat, not convex); plus you can't secure them without removing the glass which has about a 2% success rate...the manual might as well say "unpack mirrors, smash with hammer".  Get a pair of the convex ones used with the aero screen.  As you can see below, they can mount to the windscreen fine, you just lose the ability to swing the doors all the way open unless you get a pair of eccles mounts (which effectively makes the mirror part of the door); I don't mind not swinging the doors all the way open, and prefer the stability of the windscreen frame mount.

 

Awesome info, Ralph!  Thanks a bunch.

Re high brake light, I looked more closely and there is no practical way to run the wires through the bar, which renders my first question moot.  I am familiar with identifying and splicing into existing wires.  The barrel nuts are a great idea!

 

Re the spare wire through the tunnel, this was a decision "just in case" before buttoning down the console so who knows, it may stay there forever as is, subtracting lightness...

 

Re mirrors, just picked mine up from the post office - a pair of Lifeline MSA Formula convex, black, from Demon Tweaks.  Seem quite similar to yours.  Working on a simple adapter to mount them in place of the middle screw on the side of the windscreen.  Will report out.  Not worried either about not being able to swing the door out 90 deg.

 

Thanks again for the great info and your car looks way cool.

 

Cheers!