1963 Lotus Seven Side Lamps

[TEM]

Working through the electrical system while waiting for other restoration parts.  The car is fitter with the L1130 side lamps but during troubleshooting I found not only are there no wires connected to the bulb holder but there are no holes in the fenders for the wires to exit the side lamp.  Were these side lamps and turn signals optional?  Is it common that no hole would be drilled for the wires?  The car is fitted with the direction indicator switch so I can't imagine why there is a switch but no wires (or holes) to the lamps.

[SENC]

Here is a picture I took when disassembling my wings to polish the alu.  Securing the light to the wing required 1 hole/bolt, electricity through the other hole.  I know some cars had separate indicators mounted below the headlights, but not sure when that started. 

 

 

[TEM]

SENC, your side light looks like mine and your under wing picture is what I was expecting in terms of the hole for the wires.  I don't have the separate indicators under the headlight, I think they were introduced with the S3.  I believe my front wings are original to the car but the acorn nuts don't look right.  It looks like your side light is doing double duty, also acting as the nut for the wing stay, how very Chapman of you.

[SENC]

Now that you say that, I think that is my recollection - I'd forgotten.   My wings have been repainted, but to my knowledge they are also the originals.

[IamScotticus]

I believe the front wing mounted markers/flashers were a European mandatory item but optional in most USA jurisdictions.  The headlamp flashers would serve for both functions.  It depends on the DMV rules in your jurisdiction,  not what Lotus or Caterham had done.

BUT, if you want them on your car, there's nothing wrong with that.  Im partial to the Lucas L516 torpedo types.  Dave Bean had a set available last year.

Edited November 30, 2023 by IamScotticus

[TEM]

The headlamp flashers would work as turn signals?  Can't say that I have ever seen that.

 

I can understand turn signals and running lamps being optional back n the 60's but why add the lamps to the fenders and the big switch to the dash and not add the wires.  It's usually the other way around; wire harness has all the options and just don't add the lamps and switches if they don't buy the option.

[IamScotticus]

38 minutes ago, TEM said:

The headlamp flashers would work as turn signals?  Can't say that I have ever seen that.

OK, I see you don't have the headlamp mounted flashers.

I refer to these:

 

[SENC]

@TEM looking at your pictures again, I see someone added side view mirrors to the wings.  I can't see exactly where those are mounted, but look to be pretty close to in line with the lights.  Is it possible that whomever installed the mirrors used one or more of the original holes for the lights and just moved the lights?  Either to minimize drilling or to effect the location of the mirrors to their liking?  Then never got around to rewiring, or decided the functionality wasn't worth another hole?

[EdWills]

Hi All.

 

From the many photos I have in my collection, the 'torpedo' lamps shown in the photos above do not appear on any of the Series 2 or 3 Lotus Sevens that I could find.  The usual fitment was the slimmer and more aerodynamic looking Lucas L516.  These are still available from a couple of sources in the U.K.:  Holden Vintage - www.holden.co.uk, or Stafford Vehicle Components - www.s-v-c.co.uk.  Stafford are a tad cheaper, but both show U.K. Value Added Tax included that is normally removed for export (at roughly 16.67%, not the full 20% as charged in the U.K.).  The rubber mounting pad and hardware are supplied with the lamp.  Both companies still sell the different Lucas amber flasher/indicator lamps (both terms used for these) that were used by Lotus on the Series 2 and Series 3 (also red lenses for the rear of the car if needed). Note: Please see the Lotus Seven Register U.K., where John Watson has listed all the correct Lucas part numbers for the different electrical components used on Sevens. For the Lotus Seven Series 3, the L691 front and rear amber flasher/indicator was used, not the L539 that was posted on J.W.s site originally.  The L539 was the flasher lamp for the Series 2.  The L691 was also fitted on the front wings of the Lotus Seven Series IV.

 

No one at the moment produces replacement Wingard (used pre 1965) or Thorpe P.T.675 rear tail/brake lights (August 1965 onwards), although one gent remanufactured Wingards for a while.  

 

I note the use of hexagon head  bolts on the fibreglass wings/clamshells in a couple of photos.  Lotus (and possibly Caterham) used slotted mushroom head bolts and nyloc nuts with the smooth mushroom head on the inside of the cockpit by the knee to hold the rearmost wing bracket, and the smooth head on top of the wings where they are bolted to the headlamp bracket and the rearmost wing bracket (with thin rubber washers under the heads).  I have a few for sale in the parts for sale section of this forum under 'nuts and bolts'.  I can get more if anyone is interested, or pass on the address.  I'm not a business and have a lot on the go, so the info. is available if you want it. Bill (alias EdWills).

[SENC]

Bill, as I understand it (and as reported on John Watson's lotus 7 registry site), the L516s were used in conjunction with separate flashers and the L1130s were used otherwise.  Happy to be corrected.

[EdWills]

Hi Henry.  100% correct, and the Lotus Seven Owners Manual shows both options.  As I noted, I cannot find any road tests or photos that I have (there are tons more out there to blow my theory to bits!), where the car is fitted with the L1130s only..  Please note however, that John's Lotus Seven Registry incorrectly lists some of the lamps, flashers and sidelights for the Series 3 almost identical to the lamps he has listed for the Series 2.  Perhaps for the U.S. as one poster has mentioned, the L1130 lamps were fitted without the lower flasher indicator bracket that became standard on later Series 2s and definitely on Series 3s.  On early Series 1 and 2s, a narrow headlamp was also fitted and is shown in the manual.  You are correct that the L516s were used in conjunction with either the L539 (Series 2) or L691 (Series 3) flasher indicators.  So for the very early Series 2 cars shown in the photos, the L1130s would appear to be correct - if I mislead, my apologies.  

[SENC]

Here is a scan of a photo the original owner of my car, a 65 S2, sent me.  This was taken in the UK in 66/67.  The car was purchased from Lotus in Jun 65 and built by a nearby mechanic for the owner.  As a scan of an old photo it is certainly not definitive, but to my eye looks to have the same lights as it does currently (photo above) and definitely has no separate flasher.  Maybe you'll look at it and see something different.

 

Edited December 7, 2023 by SENC

[IamScotticus]

Lucas L516

 

Lucas L1130

[EdWills]

Hi All.  Well, it looks like I lied, and my nose is starting to grow. I found two Seven America Road and Track road tests from July 1961 and September 1962 where both cars are fitted with the Lucas L1130 but no signal lamp bracket beneath the headlights (reproduction of the article quite hazy)..  The signal switch on the dash was a substantial looking item, and possibly Holden still have these?  Holden carry two types of L1130, one cast and one drawn. The drawn lamp is double the price.  They also carry (or did) spare rubber mounts and bulbs for these as well as the L516.  Tony Weale in his book Lotus Seven, Restoration, Preparation, Maintenance' advises:  "That before 1979 two alternative types of Lucas separate sidelamps were fitted. The larger ones will be familiar to MG "T" owners, and the smaller ones are common with the Austin A40.  Both types were listed for the Series 2, and although the smaller ones were common on Lotus Series 3s, some early Caterhams used the larger type".  He goes on to say: "Provision was not made in the wiring harness for flashing indicator lamps until late in 1961, and the lamps themselves remained optional until standardised midway through Series 2 production".  Tony Weale does not indicate when the signal light bracket commenced to be fitted beneath the 7 inch headlamp.  5 inch spot lamps were fitted prior to 1964.

 

I have a photo of a 1959 Series 1 Seven where the car is fitted with a signal light bracket mounted underneath the 5 inch spot lamps.  It is a pear shaped bracket and possibly of the owner's own design.  

 

I really like the metallic blue finish of one of the Sevens shown above. Lotus produced a number of factory fully completed Series 3 cars for export to Canada, and they were painted in metallic blue, as was the original Seven Series 3 introduced by Graham Nearn at his brother's pub.  The second owner of my car repainted the car unfortunately.

 

Cheers,

 

Bill