southwind25 Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 Ok so i have been looking for a domestic source for a limited slip rear end i might be able to "afford" for the toyota rear end in the Birkin.:_deadhorse: the keyword being "AFFORD"...anyways i came across something called the phantom grip limited slip. Does anyone have any experience with this? We DO NOT want some kind of locked rear end..i have old bent fenders to prove what a terrible choice that is. The phantom grip looks way over simplified with a couple thick plates and 4 springs, is this more like snake oil in the rear end? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davemk1 Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 I installed one in a 1976 Mazda RX3. Installation was simple and straight forward and it worked pretty well. I don't think it works as well as a true limited slip but it was much better than the open diff. I used the car for autocross and before installing the Phantom grip it had pretty bad wheel spin in corners and afterward it had much less. I still had to be smart with the throttle but it was much better. I changed the diff oil a few times after installing and it came out looking pretty metallic with lots of suspended stuff. I changed it a few times and it eventually came out clear. I suspect it was bedding in. I frankly didn't care how it affected the diff in the long run as the car was a race only car seeing little mileage.........that and I paid $600 for the whole car so I had little at risk. I sold the car later that year to a friend and he kept it for two year before selling it an the diff seemed fine. That's all I got. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SR27.Seth Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 $500 for something that might work (Phantom Grip) or $800 for something that will work (Kaaz LSD) That is the question............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davemk1 Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 $500 for something that might work (Phantom Grip) or $800 for something that will work (Kaaz LSD) That is the question............. I hear you. FWIW I paid about $1200 for the Quaiffe for my Birkin and only paid about $225 for the Phantom Grip I put in the Mazda. The Quaiffe is the only thing I personally know about that will fit the Birkin. Will the Kaaz. Never heard of a Kaaz. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitcat Posted February 20, 2008 Share Posted February 20, 2008 I would be surprised if your mighty 1600 cc Kent engine put out enough power to make a limited slip critical. My mighty 1700 cc Kent engine has only rarely spun the inside rear wheel, and then just for a roatation or two at the track and not at all since I upgraded my tires to Toyo RA1's.Maybe if you plan a lot of auto-xing, but otherwise there are other things to spend money on (like getting more power out of your mighty Kent engine:)). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southwind25 Posted February 20, 2008 Author Share Posted February 20, 2008 i/we distinctly remember the HUGE diffrence it made when we went from a normal open rear end to a clutch type LSD in the vintage sprite racecar. And that was only making about 110 hp and was live axle as well. And with this 7 being lighter we anticipate it being worse.maybe not? Yes we do plan on auto-xing it a bit. how to spend the limited budget?? well indeed...this IS the quandry... what do i spend money on?..OH i could so open a can of worms here!better Tires? better seats? a cam for the 1600...an aluminium head? lighter flywheel? oh..a person could go nuts. We dont want to do any "major" changes,,at least not until we just start having some fun in it come better weather. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BirkinBernie Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 When I built my Birkin in 2000/2001 I also wanted a LSD. In search of alternatives to the Quaife, I sent a stock open diff center section to TRD in California to see if they had a Toyota LSD for it. They had a couple of their engineers look at it and they said they had never seen one like it. I ended up with a Quaife. No regrets, it works great. But I can't tell you how it compares to the open diff. The Quaife is the first thing I installed when I built the car. BTW, if you do get a Quaife, the Birkin owner's list has documentation on it's installation. Bernie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davemk1 Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 i/we distinctly remember the HUGE diffrence it made when we went from a normal open rear end to a clutch type LSD in the vintage sprite racecar. And that was only making about 110 hp and was live axle as well. And with this 7 being lighter we anticipate it being worse.maybe not? Yes we do plan on auto-xing it a bit. how to spend the limited budget?? well indeed...this IS the quandry... what do i spend money on?..OH i could so open a can of worms here!better Tires? better seats? a cam for the 1600...an aluminium head? lighter flywheel? oh..a person could go nuts. We dont want to do any "major" changes,,at least not until we just start having some fun in it come better weather. Tires first for autocross. The LSD won't mean squat if the tires won't hook up anyway. I use Hoosiers (25B) slicks mounted on 13" wheels they will absolutey make you faster. Once you have these and you have gotten good enough you'll want a LSD but until then it might be money misplaced. Just my 2 cents. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinnyG Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 I built my Locost with an open differential, and endured wheel spin to a certain extent on the street and a greater extend in autocross on street tires. Once switching to 20x9.5x13 slicks, there was still wheel spin (with a stock 4AGE), so I installed an OEM Toyota LSD and the difference was such an improvement that I would highly recommend an LSD whether or not you autocross it. KAAZ is quite good, however you ~may~ run into some increased understeer due to the much greater grip. If and when my OEM diff blows up, I'll likely try the TRD unit. G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitcat Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 Maybe it depends on the suspension design? (Are some more prone to spin the unloaded rear wheel?). I know a battle raged on the Elise-talk site for years because Lotus did not offer LSD on the Elise and buyers wanted the option. Lotus's defense was they had tried cars both ways and the ones w/o LSD were faster on road courses (less weight). The buyers finally prevailed and LSD is now an option (The customer is always right). Lotus still maintains that in a road course application, LSD makes the car slower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southwind25 Posted February 29, 2008 Author Share Posted February 29, 2008 slower on the track? wow really? well perhaps thats part of the live axle vs IRS also.. all i know is from my direct experiences that a limited slip is much better,,,(and a welded is pure stupidity dont ask me how i know) on a solid axle anyways. yes..tires may be the first option when we do some auto-xing.. just have to get this all past the holder of the purse strings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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