Kitcat Posted December 14, 2006 Share Posted December 14, 2006 For those who have not noticed, Westfield has just teamed up with FlyinMiata (www.flyinmiata.com) to produce a Miata-based Westfield variant. Flyin Miata is probably the premier Miata tuner in the country, with many performance goodies, including a large range of turbo'd Miata engines, as well as numerous other performance goodies. It is also home to Keith Tanner, a 7-nut of the first order. For some time Westfield has made a model based on a Miata donor car. Now that model is being sold as a kit, or turn-key vehicle, by F-Miata. Given their Miata expertise, this seems like a perfect fit. I was quoted a price of approximately $33K for a turn-key car with 185 rear horse-power and the customary "options" (such as a windshield/roof, etc). Seems like a deal for a car they say weighs about 1240 lbs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted December 15, 2006 Share Posted December 15, 2006 Thanks for the kind words, Kitcat. Westfield hasn't been making the Miata kit for very long, actually. We're assembling one of the first LHD kits in our shop now. We haven't had a lot of input into the design of the kit other than a few tweaks for the LHD setup. Overall it's pretty impressive and I'm tempted to cut the back half of my car off to install the Westfield rear suspension. So pretty. For those who want to see the specification of the car we quoted for Kitcat (we quoted it at $32,000), you can check it out >here. It's not quite what I'd call customary, it has a strong track bias with a full cage, some very expensive sway bars and an unusual combination of weather gear. No harnesses though, I hadn't spotted that before. It also includes a low-boost turbo (about $3400) and a limited slip rear end. For approximately $2000 more, it could be a 250 rear wheel horsepower monster. Heh heh. Our own car (>specification) is being built with a normal 1.6 to start off. It'll have a turn-key price around $25,000 and 90 rear wheel horsepower. For another $600 or so, it could be built out of a 1.8 donor with a limited slip rear and about 100 hp. I'm trying to convince the boss that we need to bring it (and my car, of course) to the Gap meet. We'll be at the LOG as it's being held in our backyard. I think I'm running the autox there, actually. Of course, we'll be selling the basic kits. We'll also have "pallet donors" available for those who don't want to tear apart a donor. Sorry about the overtly commercial aspects of this post, I just wanted to respond to the price quote that had been posted. I'm hoping to be a useful member of the community here. KeithKeith2006-12-15 15:43:17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scannon Posted December 15, 2006 Share Posted December 15, 2006 I was over at Flyin Miata a couple of weeks ago and Keith showed me around the Westfield project. I was impressed with the kit and its quality and if I weren't knee deep into my Caterham SV/Miata turbo engine project I think the Westfield might have been my choice. I'm in the middle of wiring the Miata (Link ECU) electronics into the Caterham harness and it is every bit as difficult as I thought it would be. FM is known for their fantastic technical support, a system I have tested many times in the course of 7 or 8 years of turbo'd Miatas. They have been helping me out with parts and helped solve problems encountered with the Caterham project. Skip Caterham project is at http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2175152 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slngsht Posted December 16, 2006 Share Posted December 16, 2006 Kieth, any pics of the rear suspension? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scannon Posted December 16, 2006 Share Posted December 16, 2006 Kieth, any pics of the rear suspension? http://www.flyinmiata.com/westfield/flip.php?x=102 Skip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted December 16, 2006 Share Posted December 16, 2006 I'll be publishing a number of other photos of the rear on the >FM Westfield site. Westfield managed to stick the Miata differential into the Sierra mounting points without any alteration to the frame - it's a slick piece of work. Keith EDIT (slngsht): Corrected link URLslngsht2006-12-16 15:20:32 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rv-4mike Posted December 22, 2006 Share Posted December 22, 2006 Now that's the way to put together a website so prospective customers can learn about the car! Nicely done! http://www.usa7s.com/aspnetforum/images/emoticons/hurray.gif The Miata would seem like a natural donor for a Seven. Just needs more power. A 250HP 13B rotary would be just the ticket! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted December 22, 2006 Share Posted December 22, 2006 Why settle for a rotary when you can get 250 hp and 250 ft-lbs with the Miata motor and stock internals? http://www.usa7s.com/aspnetforum/images/emoticons/wink5.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitcat Posted December 22, 2006 Author Share Posted December 22, 2006 How much $ for a complete 250 hp turbo'd engine, with FM supplying the engine (and doing install)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rv-4mike Posted December 22, 2006 Share Posted December 22, 2006 That was said as a kind of joke. But I do like the Rotary enough that I put one in my airplane. So I guess I have a bit of a bias. So what would it cost to get that kind of power out of the Miata engine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slngsht Posted December 22, 2006 Share Posted December 22, 2006 Now that's the way to put together a website so prospective customers can learn about the car! Nicely done! http://www.usa7s.com/aspnetforum/images/emoticons/hurray.gif The Miata would seem like a natural donor for a Seven. Just needs more power. A 250HP 13B rotary would be just the ticket! There is at least one member here (Old Yellow) with a rotory powered Rotus. I think there are several other rotory or turbo rotory Roti running around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted December 22, 2006 Share Posted December 22, 2006 The rotary would be a great airplane motor due to the power/weight of the engine. We have some turbo fanatics here too, including one who was trying to put a turbo rotary in his Miata but the project was aborted. Flyin' Miata has off-the-shelf turbo kits for the Miata that will push out 250 hp at the rear wheels. That power level starts at $4595. The price for a Westfield configuration might be a little different due to the change in intercooler design and placement. We already have one customer asking us to build a turbo Westfield. I think it's going to be traction-challenged http://www.usa7s.com/aspnetforum/images/emoticons/biggrin5.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rv-4mike Posted December 22, 2006 Share Posted December 22, 2006 Obviously power to weight is what a Seven is all about, so presumably the rotary would be great in this application as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted December 22, 2006 Share Posted December 22, 2006 Torque and the width of the powerband come in to play for an automotive application. My understanding is that since airplanes tend to run at a constant RPM, mid-range flexibility isn't a big factor. Not to say the rotary doesn't work well in a Seven, but if you're dealing with a kit like the Westfield that has been engineered for the Miata engine, it may not be worth adapting it to the rotary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slngsht Posted December 22, 2006 Share Posted December 22, 2006 Obviously power to weight is what a Seven is all about, so presumably the rotary would be great in this application as well. Rotary engines are compact, and have a low center of gravity, but they're not particularly light. I think a LS1 aluminum V8 is not much heavier than a rotary 13b. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rv-4mike Posted December 22, 2006 Share Posted December 22, 2006 The 13B dressed out to fit in my plane weighs under 200lbs (I'm estimating, but I can pick it up if need be). If stripped a lot of stuff off of it that you wouldnt need in an airplane. As was mentioned, throttle response and mid-range power are a non-issue in an airplane. If you really want to lighten it up, Racing Beat sells aluminum housings to replace the cast iron. But as I said before, I'm not seriously suggesting this. I have no problem with the boosted I4 Miata engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slngsht Posted December 23, 2006 Share Posted December 23, 2006 The 13B dressed out to fit in my plane weighs under 200lbs (I'm estimating, but I can pick it up if need be). If stripped a lot of stuff off of it that you wouldnt need in an airplane. As was mentioned, throttle response and mid-range power are a non-issue in an airplane. If you really want to lighten it up, Racing Beat sells aluminum housings to replace the cast iron. But as I said before, I'm not seriously suggesting this. I have no problem with the boosted I4 Miata engine. I stand corrected... doing a little searching online, the 13B comes to about 240, Rover V8 is at 320, LS1 is at 430, so there is a significant difference. Although, that's a normally aspirated 13B... If turbo, I'm guessing that adds another 50 lbs or so in turbo, intercooler and plumbing.slngsht2006-12-22 22:02:05 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rv-4mike Posted December 23, 2006 Share Posted December 23, 2006 Racing Beat has built a normally aspirated 13B that is over 300HP. I've heard of a guy that drag races a turbo'd, nitrous'd 13B that's around 850HP. Thats a 1.3L engine. Like you said, 240 lbs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slngsht Posted December 23, 2006 Share Posted December 23, 2006 Racing Beat has built a normally aspirated 13B that is over 300HP. I've heard of a guy that drag races a turbo'd, nitrous'd 13B that's around 850HP. Thats a 1.3L engine. Like you said, 240 lbs. How practical are these for normal day to day street use though? To make 300 n/a you'd have to have a peripheral port ( or monster port - not a long living engine). those things need a couple thousand RPMs just to idle. Again, it depends on what you're after... They make great race engines because you live in the power band all the time. IMO on the street there are better options. And going the turbo route adds dreaded weight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rv-4mike Posted December 23, 2006 Share Posted December 23, 2006 Yeah, I agree, neither of those two options are very streetable. Both are peripheral port engines. I just threw them out there as examples of how much power potential there is in a rotary. They do have terrific power to weight at the sacrifice of some low end torque. And are very quick revving smooth running engines. Not for everyone. But hey, there are people on this forum using V8s and others using motorcycle engines. I dont think I'd re-engineer somebody else's design to use one. Right now, I'd have to say (not having seen any of these in the flesh, much less driven any) that the most appealing car from an engineering standpoint is the WCM Ultralight. If building a track only car I'd probably be thinking the Deman with motorcycle engine. If building a DIY Locost though, it would be a 13B. I didnt mean to hijack the thread. My original reason for posting was to compliment Flyinmiata on their very informative website. Unlike most others, I really feel like I know what I'd be getting and how it goes together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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