14 inch tires on a budget

[eVox]

So my current set of tires are toyo R888's on some toyota 14" rims. They have fantastic amounts of grip, but doing a gymkhana even brought the rear tires to 0 tread (sunny days only anyways!). They seem to have too much grip for street driving...it is hard to get the car to slide or step out at all.

 

 

 

Toyo and Nitto (which is still toyo) seem to have the only 14" performance tires out there. I've looked at the toyo T1R as a replacement but they are still pricey, even with 'friend' pricing from a toyo employee. I'm a college student...

 

 

Would running a full set of nexen all season tires on my locost be regrettable? I have all season tires on my stock 1985 saab 900 and love driving the snot out of it. Am I right that all out power and grip may not be the most fun?

[Kitcat]

I have Toyo RA1's (naturally shaved) on my Cat and have no trouble sliding them. Maybe go faster:)?

[MHKflyer52]

Quote from eVox

"They seem to have too much grip for street driving...it is hard to get the car to slide or step out at all."

 

Stepping the rear end out is not the fastest way or safest way around a curve most of the time and can be very dangerous as it puts the car on the very outer limits of control and is not at all safe on public streets.

 

Yes it is fun and I have experienced it a number of times myself but being able to control the vehicle without sliding or spinning the wheels will get you around a curve faster (99.99% of the time) especially on public streets and will not get you a ticket if observed by your local police and it does not wear out those tires as quickly as when they are sliding or spinning.

I have always told people that the quickest way around a curve is not to slide the car but to control it so it is just at the point that the tires will still keep grip with the surface it is on be it a race track or public street or snow covered road or frozen lake or rain soaked street which usually means driving slower and having better control by being smoother and keeping the vehicle in balance with the conditions and surface it is on.

 

Now having said the above if you want to experience some fun in an large empty parking lot (NO PARKED CARS to run into or light poles) and do not mind wearing out a set of tires quickly then try this, inflate your rear tires to the max recommended tire pressure and then go measure out a 100ft diameter circle (50ft of rope and some chalk to mark circle) and start to drive around the circle while increasing your speed and add power after you have started around the circle and the front wheels have good grip and are not pushing or sliding. You do not have to be going very fast to see just how fast the rear end will step out so be careful and remember when you spin feet in (off the gas and on the clutch and brake). Do this in both directions and you will find that you will learn a lot about your car and your abilities to control your car. Also time yourself (have a friend do this) when the rear end is stepped out and then when it is not and I think you will find that your faster around the circle when under better control and not sliding. Oh watch out when you let up on the gas quickly as your car will have a tendency to regain traction and will go in the direction you have the front wheels pointed.

When you get tired of spinning and sliding your tires with the max air pressure you might want to try reducing the amount of air say in two pound increments in the rear tires and doing the same corners at the same speed to find the point that the rear tires get the best grip and do not step out on you and have even ware across the tread surface or you could just put the recommended tire pressure and drive home.

 

Note: This can bring the local police out rather quickly if you’re doing this in a public parking area that is not blocked off to the public so be prepared to explain what you are doing and that you are trying to learn how to control your car safely without endangering people or yourself, it might not get you out of a ticket so be careful.

Edited September 27, 2010 by MHKflyer52
Added quote from eVox's post

[turboeric]

Have you checked out the Falken Azenis RT615K? They come in a 195/60x14 and are fairly cheap. Also the Dunlop Direzza Z1 Star Spec and the Yoko AVS ES100 come in 14 inch.

[TheDingo8MyBaby]

Quote from eVox

"They seem to have too much grip for street driving...it is hard to get the car to slide or step out at all."

 

Stepping the rear end out is not the fastest way or safest way around a curve most of the time and can be very dangerous as it puts the car on the very outer limits of control and is not at all safe on public streets.

 

Yes it is fun and I have experienced it a number of times myself but being able to control the vehicle without sliding or spinning the wheels will get you around a curve faster (99.99% of the time) especially on public streets and will not get you a ticket if observed by your local police and it does not wear out those tires as quickly as when they are sliding or spinning.

I have always told people that the quickest way around a curve is not to slide the car but to control it so it is just at the point that the tires will still keep grip with the surface it is on be it a race track or public street or snow covered road or frozen lake or rain soaked street which usually means driving slower and having better control by being smoother and keeping the vehicle in balance with the conditions and surface it is on.

 

Now having said the above if you want to experience some fun in an large empty parking lot (NO PARKED CARS to run into or light poles) and do not mind wearing out a set of tires quickly then try this, inflate your rear tires to the max recommended tire pressure and then go measure out a 100ft diameter circle (50ft of rope and some chalk to mark circle) and start to drive around the circle while increasing your speed and add power after you have started around the circle and the front wheels have good grip and are not pushing or sliding. You do not have to be going very fast to see just how fast the rear end will step out so be careful and remember when you spin feet in (off the gas and on the clutch and brake). Do this in both directions and you will find that you will learn a lot about your car and your abilities to control your car. Also time yourself (have a friend do this) when the rear end is stepped out and then when it is not and I think you will find that your faster around the circle when under better control and not sliding. Oh watch out when you let up on the gas quickly as your car will have a tendency to regain traction and will go in the direction you have the front wheels pointed.

When you get tired of spinning and sliding your tires with the max air pressure you might want to try reducing the amount of air say in two pound increments in the rear tires and doing the same corners at the same speed to find the point that the rear tires get the best grip and do not step out on you and have even ware across the tread surface or you could just put the recommended tire pressure and drive home.

 

Note: This can bring the local police out rather quickly if you’re doing this in a public parking area that is not blocked off to the public so be prepared to explain what you are doing and that you are trying to learn how to control your car safely without endangering people or yourself, it might not get you out of a ticket so be careful.

 

Martin,

 

Gymkhana is a little different than autocross in that a lot of turns are so tight that the fastest way around the corner is to slide the car. I also don't recommend trying to talk your way out of screwing around in a parking lot - I know plenty of people who have tried to go down that route with little luck.

 

Andrew,

 

I've had really good luck with Federal 595's in 14" size on my ae86. They're just about right for a low hp Car for gymkhana and they're dirt cheap too - and martin is right. Adjust pressure until you get the balance you're looking for. I've had 595's up to 60+ PSI. There's nothing wrong with low grip tires for low horsepower cars, other than the car being ultimately slower. I think it's a lot more fun to drive that way.

[eVox]

I have Toyo RA1's (naturally shaved) on my Cat and have no trouble sliding them. Maybe go faster:)?

 

Hehe, the R888's need to be pushed a little too hard for my comfort level, but yes, they will slide (also the reason I'm in the market for tires >_

 

MHKflyer52-

It is foolish to think that drifting is faster, and I know better. It is however, one of the most fun things to do in an automobile.

 

Gymkhana is really the only place it is of merit (well, besides drifting itself). While I am no professional, I do participate in closed course events for this kind of thing.

 

I would like to add that aggressively lifting the throttle can induce oversteer as well.

 

 

Ill take a look into the Federals and the suggestions by turboeric...thanks guys!

[pureadrenalin]

Avon, they make a decent small performance tire.