Zetec 3 ignition maps

[Marine7]

Got my birkin out for it's real first test drive. Nothing fell off, broke, and I made it home just fine. However, it feels low on power. I suspect it's my ignition advance. I'd love to see others maps for comparison.

 

I'm running a 2.0 liter Zetec 3 with jenvey 45mm throttle bodies, emerald ECU, stock head and cams.

 

Any help would be appreciated.

 

Thanks

 

Jason

[Marine7]

Ok, my original question hasnt garnered any responses so I'll refine my querry a bit. I have a base map and want to tweak it for more power. What is the safe max advance I should apply? I have searched the internet and have come up with various maps for Zetecs(none perfectly match my car configuration) with some running 28 and some up to 34 deg total advance. The base map has 5 deg at idle and max 20 at WOT. I plan to add 5 deg across the curve and do a test drive. Dyno sessions are in the distant future. For now I'm looking for driveability.

 

01 Zetec 3

45MM Jenvey ITB's

Stock head and Cams

Emerald ECU

Techedge wideband

 

Any thoughts?

 

Thanks

 

Jason

[1turbofocus]

One of the things that SUCKS about the emerald (like most standalones) is you dont have so you cant log a knock sensor

 

I have probly tuned more Zetec engines then anyone on this site and I can tell you that no 2 Zetec engines are the same , with out a way to tell where your knock threshold is there is no way to get a perfect cruise/wot timing map

 

A dyno will only do the WOT timing map and in most cases tuners try to tune the Zetec like a Mustang and get WAY to much timing into them

 

This is a Ford ECU timing I just finished today as you can see the Zetec does not take a lot of timing loke most think they do , cruise this engine is in the .450-.700 load area at 2100-3500 rpm so only in the 14-17 deg range , the Emerald changes this some along with many other things but dont get sucked into the 30`s + timing because they wont like that much

RPM 1000 - 6500 across / .100 to 1.000 top/bottom

6 6 6 2 11 12 12 17 16.5 21 23

7 7 7 3 12 14 14 14 17.5 22 24

8 8 9 5 15 14 15 16 19 23 25

8 8 8 7 9 16 17 15 20 18 22

14 8 7 15 10 14 19 16 18 19 23

19 12 11 16 16 13 19 18 20 21 26

35 19 17 19 19 18 20 20 23 25 28

36 30 30 36 36 36 36 36 36 36 36

38 38 38 38 38 38 38 38 38 38 38

 

 

As you can see some timing in the 3,5,7 range at 2500 and .600 - 1.000 load this more in the take off range , doesnt mean your Zetec will need the same thing but add timing in just a few places and drive , see if you can feel a diff worth the amout of timing you added if not take half back out and drive again , do this in small areas and slowly and you will be fine , fueling the same way , shoot for 14.7 cruise and part throttle and 12.8 WOT

 

Tom

Edited April 13, 2012 by 1turbofocus

[SkinnyG]

When I documented going MegaSquirt and ITB's in my Locost, someone (I believe from DIY AutoTune) posted the tuning details of a crate Zetec w intake & header:

 

http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/lethal-locost-goes-megasquirt/8505/page2/

 

The spark advance table:

 

http://diyautotune.com/images/tech/tune-map-examples/futrell-zetec-itb/futrell_zetec_itb_ignition.gif

 

I've used DIY AutoTune's 4AGE spark maps for my Locost and they worked really well.

[slomove]

This is my Emerald ignition map for a Zetec ZX1 with ITB, stage 2 cams and 10.6 compression. But unlike the fueling maps I did not change much from the original Emerald ignition maps. Has been working well for the last 5 or 6 years. I am nnot sure if the advance numbers at high revs and low load make much sense but you don't really get there much and if so it is just engine braking.

 

Edited April 14, 2012 by slomove

[Marine7]

Thanks very much. The Emerald appears to be a nice system, but I'm frustrated at the poorly written manual for a novice like me. I suspect that I need to focus my efforts on fueling and not ignition since my AFR is indicating a very lean running.

 

The engine starts fairly quickly and settles into a constant albiet slightly rough idle. The car can be driven and part throttle is ok, however power delivery is non existant. Engine makes great noises, but no power. There is no mid-range. In fact, I doubt I could get the tires to brake loose even at low speed.

 

Thanks for everyones patience and advice.

 

 

Regards

 

Jason

[JohnCh]

A base Emerald map for a Zetec should get you reasonably close, so the issue you are describing makes me think something else is wrong. Here are a few things to check:

• Is the TPS calibrated and operating correctly? Easiest way to check the latter is to hookup the laptop, go into the Live View and see if the Load Site starts at 0 and progresses to 15 as you move to full throttle. The engine doesn’t need to be running for this check.
  
• Do the settings in the Injection Scaling window match the injectors and the fuel pressure you are running? If these are incorrect, then the entire fueling map will be off by some factor.
  
• Have you reloaded the base map? Can't hurt to start from scratch in case something was corrupted when fiddling around earlier. Also, there are some other Emerald Zetec maps located here that you may want to check out.
  

When you write that AFR indicates the engine is lean, what are the readings? Are you data logging so you have accurate information with regard to load and speed sites, or is this based on watching the AFR gauge? If you aren’t data logging, then I recommend you do so. The Emerald will record up to 8 channels and looking at the data can really help you understand what is going on. I find the following 6 bits of data are the most useful: AFR, Load Site, Throttle Position %, Coolant Temp, Inj Duration, and RPM.

-John

[Marine7]

John,

 

I'll double check the TPS tonight.

 

My AFR conclusions are based on the AFR meter. I havent been able to get the ECU to data log per se, nor have I been successful in any closed loop running. Apparently I'm not within the narrow closed loop settings required to store corrections. I've got a lot to learn.

 

So, I'll start over. Reload the base map. Check TPS and verify injection scaling. I'll post my findings asap.

 

Thanks again to all for the advice.

 

Jason

[JohnCh]

Also, double check the actual fuel pressure you are running. If that somehow got out of whack, then it would result in fueling issues across the board even if the injector scaling and map settings are correct. If you want some assistance getting the data logging running, feel free to drop me a PM. I'm happy to help.

 

-John

[Marine7]

John,

 

Running right at 40psi which should be right in the wheelhouse. I'd had the same thought, but it appears to be holding (at least while stationary) through the rev range.

 

I'll check a few things and get back to the base map to start over.

 

Thanks for the help.

 

Jason

[Klasik-69]

First of all, I don't know squat about mapping out ECU's. However, doesn't it look like there is an anomoly in the 2500 rpm section of the map you show ? Why would the ignition timing drop to 2 degrees at 2500 rpm at 0.1 TPS or is this showing that there is a problem ? The other map from the DIYAutoTune is more progressive or linear. Perhaps I'm not understanding this.

 

 

One of the things that SUCKS about the emerald (like most standalones) is you dont have so you cant log a knock sensor

 

I have probly tuned more Zetec engines then anyone on this site and I can tell you that no 2 Zetec engines are the same , with out a way to tell where your knock threshold is there is no way to get a perfect cruise/wot timing map

 

A dyno will only do the WOT timing map and in most cases tuners try to tune the Zetec like a Mustang and get WAY to much timing into them

 

This is a Ford ECU timing I just finished today as you can see the Zetec does not take a lot of timing loke most think they do , cruise this engine is in the .450-.700 load area at 2100-3500 rpm so only in the 14-17 deg range , the Emerald changes this some along with many other things but dont get sucked into the 30`s + timing because they wont like that much

RPM 1000 - 6500 across / .100 to 1.000 top/bottom

6 6 6 2 11 12 12 17 16.5 21 23

7 7 7 3 12 14 14 14 17.5 22 24

8 8 9 5 15 14 15 16 19 23 25

8 8 8 7 9 16 17 15 20 18 22

14 8 7 15 10 14 19 16 18 19 23

19 12 11 16 16 13 19 18 20 21 26

35 19 17 19 19 18 20 20 23 25 28

36 30 30 36 36 36 36 36 36 36 36

38 38 38 38 38 38 38 38 38 38 38

 

 

As you can see some timing in the 3,5,7 range at 2500 and .600 - 1.000 load this more in the take off range , doesnt mean your Zetec will need the same thing but add timing in just a few places and drive , see if you can feel a diff worth the amout of timing you added if not take half back out and drive again , do this in small areas and slowly and you will be fine , fueling the same way , shoot for 14.7 cruise and part throttle and 12.8 WOT

 

Tom

[1turbofocus]

This is the timing tables from a stock Ford ECU , it was a base to show the timing on a stock Ford Zetec through a stock ECU

 

That 2 deg is at 100% load so if you got to 100% load at 2500 which you cant do with out boost you wouldnt need much timing at that load and RPM

 

Keep in mind the best way to do timing tables is load vs RPM not TPS vs rpm , Ford stock ECU (and most others) use load so your looking at load not tps , top row being 100% load bottom row being .100 load or idle

 

Tom

Edited April 20, 2012 by 1turbofocus