coffee break Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 I am planning on converting my 1600 Crossflow from 40DCOE's to TBI. There are several ECUs available and packages to order, what pitfalls should I be watching out for? Thanks, Carl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bball7754 Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Carl - Don't have any info to offer (although I also have a Crossflow), but I am in contact with someone in the UK who is in the process of converting his Crossflow to injection. If you PM me your email address, I'll send him an email asking for info on his project and include you on the email. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twobone Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 What is the big driver of the switch? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffee break Posted March 22, 2013 Author Share Posted March 22, 2013 What is the big driver of the switch? CO and HC emissions. I live in an area that requires emission testing. Kit cars fall under different, ie looser, standards, but standards none the less. In GA the merto Atlanta area's emission testing is run by The Clean Air Force. I had communication with thier staff on the certification side and was assured it shouldn't be a problem. The requirements would be tailored to the configuration of the car. I made my application and recieved notification that values had been established. Drove the car to a testing location and ran the car at idle and 2500 RPM, both in neutral. FAILED! Along the way I have had conversations with various shops and mechanics about adjusting Weber carbs. I haven't found enough gray hair on mechanics to get the numbers met. I have come to the conclusion that a Weber was designed to make power, damn the emissions! I have driven on the street, but without a tag. I have only done this to get to workshops since it is illegal. I can get a waiver for a year if enough $$$ is spent on repairs. I had the car at one shop that assured me they could handle the work. After 3 weeks if still hadn't passed. I was supplied with a padded bill, but they would not sign-off on the documentation needed to get a waiver. So converting to FI will consume enough $$$ (and some) to meet the amount for a waiver and with some work on a chassis dyne I hope to get some workable results. Hope this answers you question. Thanks, Carl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twobone Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 Now I understand why you are considering this. The idea that your hobby car has to meet emissions standards is so frustrating. I admit to having the same challenge. The solution I deal with every 2 years involves the handing over of a small envelope of cash to a shady guy from the Balkans. I don't feel good about it when it happens. I just don't have a choice. I'm stuck with it until 2020 when my car hits 30 years old and becomes exempt. I hope EFI gets you what you need. I fear that the gap will be too much to bridge. When I put my weber carb'd car on the rollers the numbers were way off the scale. This may sound nuts, but maybe you should consider a Zetec swap. With a Zetec you could get EFI and a CAT. Best of luck and so sorry to hear you face the same dilemna Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidL Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 Emerald makes a conversion for reasonable cost. But I have no experience other than seeing the website: http://www.emeraldm3d.com/ecu/generic-throttle-body-conversion-kits-for-4-cylinder-engines.html Another option would be to sell the car and buy a Zetec or duratec-powered one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffee break Posted March 22, 2013 Author Share Posted March 22, 2013 Emerald makes a conversion for reasonable cost. But I have no experience other than seeing the website: http://www.emeraldm3d.com/ecu/generic-throttle-body-conversion-kits-for-4-cylinder-engines.html Another option would be to sell the car and buy a Zetec or duratec-powered one. I have been looking at that one, OMEX, and a Weber Alpha kit. The first two are tuneable with a PC interface, the last looks like it is a closed loop with no interface. I think it may be necessary to have a table with modified values at 800 & 2500 RPM On the other hand, my daughter has a 2005 Focus, but I don't think she would go for an engine swap.:toetap05: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bball7754 Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 I would think you might end up having to develop a map specifically to pass emissions, even if it makes it run poorly overall. Might be a reason to not go with Weber Alpha kit. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffee break Posted March 22, 2013 Author Share Posted March 22, 2013 I would think you might end up having to develop a map specifically to pass emissions, even if it makes it run poorly overall. Might be a reason to not go with Weber Alpha kit. Steve That's my thoughts about mapping. It looks like the Emerald K6 can store 3 maps and they can be chosen by a on-board switch. Of the posts I've seen, Emerald is the one mentioned most. I haven't seen much mention of OMEX. Ditto on your thoughts on the Weber Alpha. Thanks, Carl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timax Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 I would think you might end up having to develop a map specifically to pass emissions, even if it makes it run poorly overall. Might be a reason to not go with Weber Alpha kit. Steve Couldnt you do this with the carbs also. Have a set of jets and chokes just for the test. Lean it out to the point where it only just runs. I think you may spend a lot of money on efi and still have to do this anyway. Having said that once you go to efi you will never go back unless its for historic purposes . Have a look at the Jenvey tbs and whatever they use in the UK. good luck Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlumba81 Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 Can't you add in a cat and get it nice and hot before doing the emissions test? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Stig Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 I had a a Crossflow Westfield in the UK running Jenvey 40 TBs and an Omex 600 unit and it was very good. It is an expensive conversion for minimal power gain but does allow multiple maps to be loaded when required and allows for excellent ignition timing mapping. All the systems are essentially the same and Omex sell most of the components direct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffee break Posted March 23, 2013 Author Share Posted March 23, 2013 Tim, It may be possible if I could find a mechanic that has the knowledge, experience and test equipment to meet the numbers. I haven't found him yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffee break Posted March 23, 2013 Author Share Posted March 23, 2013 I had a a Crossflow Westfield in the UK running Jenvey 40 TBs and an Omex 600 unit and it was very good. It is an expensive conversion for minimal power gain but does allow multiple maps to be loaded when required and allows for excellent ignition timing mapping. All the systems are essentially the same and Omex sell most of the components direct. Did you have the work done or did you get the car with the set-up already there? What is your opinion on the quality of the wiring harness. Thanks, Carl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Stig Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 Carl. Did all the work myself. I used the Omex loom which I found to be very good. At the time they had a standard and an HD loom which I used as the car was a comp. car. Fitting everything is pretty straightforward although care needs to be taken with the small items like temp sensors to ensure compatibility. Don't underestimate the cost though as TBs, fuel pump, regulator, return fuel lines, crank sensor and new steel pulley, TPS, air filters, etc all add up. And then the fun begins with the set up that really must be done on a rolling road to get it perfect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrell Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 If you are just looking to get your car past smog I have another idea you might consider. I have a Weber DGV / 2bbl carb with manifold, will bolt right on your crossflow motor, you are more than welcome to borrow it for as long as you need it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffee break Posted March 24, 2013 Author Share Posted March 24, 2013 Darrell, It's something to concider. What's the history of this set-up? Thanks, Carl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrell Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 I picked it up along with some other crossflow parts a while back. My old DCOE's were giviing me trouble and I thought it might be a alternative. I did have it on my engine and drove it around the block a few times. It ran just fine and had a nice smooth idle but was not anywhere near what my engine wanted. I broke down and bought a new pair of DCOE's . Since it only runs on the primary barrel at idle up to around 3000 rpm I think this setup would have a much better chance of passing a smog test over dual carbs, very easy to install too. Like I said, if you want to try it I could throw them in a box and UPS them to you. You could keep them for as long as you need them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffee break Posted March 24, 2013 Author Share Posted March 24, 2013 Darrell PM sent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlumba81 Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 Have you tried race shops that deal w/ formula fords? They should be able to tune your carbs for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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