Zetec Upgrade Advice Wanted!

[the_rainman]

Posting this to all 7 type lists!

 

First, a tad of background...

 

My name is Randy Flowers and i have bought an 88 Caterham from Dick Brink in Arlington Texas...the car was mostly used for occasional trackdays in its previous life, it has a nice suspension setup, De Dion, LSD, etc, and is now engineless and we putting a Zetec ZX2 engine in it (mated to a BGH T9 close ratio tranny rated to handle 240hp)...i have been spending the last month since i bought the car learning about what stuff to order, etc, and having a blast doing it!

 

My own situation is that i am a single dad with two young daughters (one of whom is autistic) and time is my #1 thing in life right now. I am also not a mechanic but will definitely learn all the basics for proper maintanence, etc. I plan on DRIVING the car ALOT, mostly around town, to work and back, to pick up a daughter at daycare, short trips, that type of thing.

 

The top considerations for me are a) reliability day to day and 2) driveability around town including in some traffic, especially wanting below 5,000 RPM responsiveness and quickness as i will very seldom rev past 5000 going 0-50mph between lights...i will occassionally take it to a track once i get used to it, but only to have fun and learn the limits of the car, not to compete...

 

With that said, i need some advice for initial and long term Zetec mods. I have scoured the Birkin and 7 sites (including BlatChat in England) and Focus mod sites, and am finding very little advice for good mod paths for a Zetec...

 

I am thinking i want long term to have a very reliable and driveable 175-185hp. I would love to do this from the start, and Dick Brink is suggesting a $1300 head he has (with very good porting, bigger valves, etc) and to use that head to put stage two cams of some sort in. The wiring loom we are using for the car came out of a Birkin that used a head that was ported, shaved, stage two cams and bigger valves, and the chip that came with the Birkin wiring loom had been modified for $300 to match the above stage two type of head setup. If i went with the modified head and stage two cams right off the bat, then i should very closely match the modified chip i already have, and would guess i would need not more than a few hours of dyno time to dial the already modded chip in...would guess i could do all this for around $2500 for everything and have 180+hp right off the bat...

 

HOWEVER...money in the initial budget is a getting very thin, and also i am thinking i should stick pretty close to stock for the initial build of the car until i get used to driving a 7...

 

But dang it, i want at least a little more power i think initially than a pure stock 145-150hp setup! Maybe in the 160-165hp range...

 

So, some questions...

 

1) If you were wanting to do some very basic (easy, reliable, inexpensive) mods to a stock Zetec as a starting point, what would you do to improve 0-50mph style around town, below 5000 RPM, crispness of throttle and easy to rev power?

 

I am thinking of the following for initial mods (if i dont go with the stage two type head and modified ECU/chip that Dick has)...

 

a) $300 Lightened (Fidanza) flywheel (this one i am sure i am doing while the engine is out of the car!)

b) $100 Shave the head to get compression into the 10:4 range (.040?)

c) $100 Underdrive pulley

 

Note that if i dont go with a stage two modded head type of initial setup, i am planning on just putting aside the modified Ford chip that i have and purchasing a stock Ford chip...

 

2) Will shaving the head cause a stock Ford chip to blow its mind and need tweaking, or will it adjust on the fly properly? What will shaving the head mean to seat of the pants 0-50mph

 

3) What are opinions on the worth of an underdrive pulley? Especially given that the pulley is driving alot less stuff on our cars.

 

4) I talked to a Zetec race engine prepper locally and told him all the above, and his recommendation was to do all the bolt on stuff first before any head mods, and wanted me to get a) serious

[Al N.]

Hey Randy. Al Navarro here.

 

Most of us were in your situation at some point or another. I think I've chimed in on the Se7ens.net board that you should try the setup you have (this was in regard to the tranny) before making major changes. But I know how it is, you want to do things once and do them right...and once you have the engine and tranny out you might as well get the internals right....

 

I can definitely sympathize with your thirst for knowledge from the Focus tuners...a long time ago, I wrote to Jackson Racing to see if they were interested in putting their supercharger on a Seven. They weren't. And when i wrote to Focus Sport regarding HP gains from their Cosworth head (see below), they were like "It's from Cosworth, what else do you need to know?"

 

Here are a few points, from what I know (which is very little, I have a local mechanic work on my car for EVERY SINGLE THING that isn't an emergency repair cobbled together by yours truly at the side of the road).

 

First, try to find a ZX-3 or an SVT. I'm pretty sure those variants of the Zetec aere more "hop-up-able" than the ZX-2 and ZX-1. You can get a brand new crate motor for around a grand.

 

Next, consider slapping the Focus Sport or Ford Racing head on (if the ZX-2 takes either) your block. The Focus Sport head was done in conjunction with Cosworth. And Caterham USA seems to think the Ford Racing Head is a good starting point too.

 

Regarding cold air intakes...a few of the Se7ens I've seen have something similar to the CIAs you see bolted to normal cars. A huge intake tube ending in a filter. I think they're more popular as mods on street cars because of the normally restrictive (and quiet) airboxes that usually come with the motor as delivered from the factory.

 

Finally, I have the Jenveys (individual TBs, not one big one for all cylinders) and all I can say it that the induction noise is worth whatever they cost (they came intalled on my engine).

[the_rainman]

What kind of mileage do you get with the Jenveys? What are the seat of the pants, right foot impressions of them?

 

Why not put some of the little Focus forum type improved throttle bodies on? Why do no 7s do this it seems?

 

Randy

[Al N.]

I honestly have no idea what kind of mileage I get. I have the 55 liter ATL fuel cell, and have never done the calculations. Though I did run out of gas once! I don't drive my car close to daily...more like twice a month if I average things out. So I don't really care what the MPG is.

 

I will say that I've eaten up as much as a half a tank of gas in one morning of driving, and when really hammering it, can almost watch the fuel gauge drop as the RPMs climb!

 

I think some of the other guys have chimed or can chime in on Zetec gas mileage, but again, it's something I've never really calculated. Regarding TBs, I think the FocusSport TBs are one consolidated TB as opposed to the Jenveys or Webcons which have individual trumpets. It would be a step backwards from my Jenveys...I think.

 

There may be some issue with the standard Ford Intake Manifold/TB fitting under the bonnet of a Seven.

 

As for seat of the pants feel, I have the 200 HP "Supersport" Non SVT Zetec with Cat 6 speed gearbox and the car feels about 5 times as fast as my 225 HP Audi TT. As the TT is in comparison to our Honda Pilot (in terms of quickness/rawness) so is the Seven to the TT. My advice is to get your car back on the road as soon as possible and start enjoying instead of fretting about what to do — and I mean that in the best possible way.:hurray:

[the_rainman]

Got ya about getting it on the road...just kinda feeling my way thru the initial stuff here...i am never shy about asking for advice, its how i learn everything!

 

Plan is to just keep fixing/modding it until i am 95 and cant see the road anymore... Wonder what kind of engine/fuel i will be running in 2050?!

 

Randy

[slngsht]

I'm no Zetec expert, but if you want around town driveability, be careful about a head/cam job. head/cam packages generally give you higher end hp at the expense of lower end torque and / or emissions/ fuel economy.

 

 

[Boxologist]

don't worry about modding a se7en performancewise for the first year or so beyond tyres, braking, and tuning. maybe cosmetics.

 

i have had mine for about a year now, and learning the limits of it has been a joyful expenditure of time. its is a zx1 zetec (stock)with similar power to what u expect (147 crank hp). right now its more than u can handle. just get out there and blat and don't worry about what u need to add top the car. u just need to keep changing tyres, fluids, and filters and u will still be happy.

 

I see mid 20s on milage. maybe 27 sometimes.

 

personally, if u haven't paid for the engine yet, investigate if a duratec can be fit into ur car. a stock unit performs 15-20% better than a base zetec.

 

use the lightened flywheel. the head shaving should be done with hair and the underdriven pulley could be skipped and better served by the flywheel. theres a good thread on CCC about underdriven or lightened pullies.

 

there really is no way to CAI a 7 except maybe to snorkel it i will end somehow getting something to reverse my intake path from aft of the engine to just above and behind the radiator. if u run carbs, u pull the coldest air possible if using trumpets to get outside the car.

[slomove]

Come on Randy! Don't listen to these rational guys who believe they learned their lessons.

 

Give in to the dark side and get your engine upgrade :blueangel:

 

It is like preaching abstinence to a 16-year old :crazy:

 

Gert

 

P.S.: Obviously they guys are right.....:cry:

[Boxologist]

Come on Randy! Don't listen to these rational guys who believe they learned their lessons.

 

Give in to the dark side and get your engine upgrade :blueangel:

 

It is like preaching abstinence to a 16-year old :crazy:

 

Gert

 

P.S.: Obviously they guys are right.....:cry:

 

keep it up:crazy:

i'll nominate u for secretary

I walk around with a sign saying ,"Vote for the Gert without the skirt" at 7-7-07.:grouphug:

t thought that one up myself :shocked:

 

[slomove]

I don't think so.....I won't be at the Dragon, unfortunately. And I am rather the unorganized type of guy. Nobody would want me to be a secretary of anything. I'd lose the member list in no time.

 

Gert

[roll a 7]

I have a zetec and went through the same process figuring out just what I should do. Relied greatly upon the guys on blatchat and followed the guiding principle of NEVER trying to reinvent the wheel; just do what already works!!! It worked very well and I have a really good zetec. Do the Fidanza flywheel for sure!!

 

My advice to you: Go with a ZX3, not a ZX2. Why buy a $1300 head when the Ford Racing head with bigger valves sells for $900?

 

Better yet, go find an SVT zetec and put that in the car (about $1500 from a wrecker). You will then have a Cosworth designed zetec with much better internals and a good induction system. Some one will have to fix the wiring harness and it will cost. This will still cost less than what you are contemplating, push 200 HP and scare the snot out of you; all for less money. Cosworth did the work, you can shave on their whiskers!

[Boxologist]

^^^^^^^

excellent advice. i just did a quick search for SVT long blocks and theres a bunch near me. ahhh, next years mods have already been selected:cheers: :thumbs: :reddevil:

[Al N.]

Roll a 7 - Any thoughts on the Ford Racing head vs. the Focus Sport Cosworth tuned head? Not that I am going to do anything to my ZX-3 anytime soon. - Al

 

P.S. Is it time to re-address a merger of the CCC and USA7 forums?

[roll a 7]

Before giving my ignorant opinion on a head which I have NEVER seen, please allow me to expose my biases on the subject of heads for a 7. I am convinced that the duratec is the best motor for a 7 because it weighs forty pounds less than a zetec and the over square design permits those big 34 mm intake valves. The zetec undersquare design results in 32 mm intake valves. The smart guys all say that in order to make more HP a motor has to breath better. Advantage duratec!! I want more power but am not willing to fork out the more than ten grand a good duratec upgrade would cost. So, what is the best way to impove my zetec?

 

The focus sport cosworth head is unknown to me, other than a visit to their website. It appears that the head has been ported and unshrouded with much time on the flowebench to measure the results. Cosworth is eminently qualified to do such work!! Nowhere, that I could find, does the website mention larger valves being installed. So, I conclude that this head is a very optimized STOCK zetec head (please correct me if I am wrong). What I want for my next motor is a head with bigger valves so I have some chance to hang with the local duratec guys on the track.

 

The possible entrants are some after market guys that port and put in bigger valves, Ford Racing and, again, Cosworth.

 

In my mind Ford and Cosworth have the most resources to throw at the problem so I would prefer to use one of them, all things being equal. Some independent guy may have stumbled upon the best solution, but how much better can it really be?? Don't know the answer to that one.

 

The Ford Racing head was developed by Ford (surprise) and is ported with 33 mm intake valves and bigger exhaust valves. At $900 it looks like a contender to me. Have yet to actually see one or speak with anyone that uses one. Darn!

 

Five or seven years or so ago Ford hired Cosworth to design a high performance version of the zetec for the road. Good choice! The result was the SVT zetec. This features a different head with better flow and 33.5 mm intake valves and bigger exhaust valves. Now we are talking about something that I want! And that head just happens to bolt onto the regular zetec block, if you can find one. Even better, if you use the thinner xz3 head gasket instead of the SVT head gasket you will raise the compession ratio, which can also cause increased HP. Be careful, the SVT is an interference motor. The bottom end of the SVT zetec uses the stock block and crank. There is however some good news there too: It has forged rods and lighter cast pistons. Add all that up and the SVT looks like a very good alternative if you can find a low mileage example from the wrecker. It's likely to be my next move because it IS the best zetec starting point, I think. Thank you, Cosworth & Ford!!

 

Al, on the subject of merger: It's fine by me either way. There is some sentiment on the CCC website to stay "as is" as the west coast 7s sandbox/pigpen. Magnus is in Sweden and will not be returning until the end of the month, at least. He conceived and designed the CCC website and has the biggest vote in the matter. If put to a vote among the site users I'm not certain it would pass, or fail.

 

There are 4 se7en related sites that I regularly follow and it would be good to have some consolidation to make it easier for everyone to find/sell/question etc.

 

Some of the guys that did the grunt work setting up the various 7 sites probably don't want to see their efforts disappear from the web. It is their choice.

 

Do NOT infer that the preceding paragraph includes Magnus!! It does NOT.

 

I don't know where it will all end up, but I think that by default this site will get the most traffic over time.

[roll a 7]

On zetec-jenvey mileage: Autocross and track swallows gas really fast. On the rare highway trips I think that I'm in the 20-25 mpg range. This from a zetec with 200-215 HP and a leadfoot/idiot driver.

 

The underdrive pulley is of questionable value. Adjustable cam verniers would be a much better item for performance.

[Al N.]

Rolla7...thanks very much for your considered input on both heads and a possible consolidated site. I think the CCC and USA7s may have different missions and serve a slightly different audience base, so it may be wise to let them remain independent.

 

I do value appreciate your input over here and look forward to posts/pix from the PNW 2007 tour.

 

I'm bummed that I just ordered a trailer...that's money that could have been spent on a new Ford Racing head!

[roll a 7]

If I was in the market for a head I'd first try to find a low mileage SVT head from a wrecker. Bigger valves=more HP potential, And the entire head was designed from scratch by Cosworth!!

 

Again on the merger topic: I have the feeling that each indivdual site thinks that all of the others should merge into it; or the others can merge and "their" site needs to remain independent. Like one of our CA Locost gents would say, "It's like herding cats". Quote attributed to Dave G, a fine 7er. Built his 7 from a pile of tubes. Wish I could do that..........