Titling question

[miatacarpc]

So, here's a conundrum for you. I originally built this kit in Washington State, and titled it there, which was great and painless. BUT, due to their titling rules, it was titled as a "2011, Make: KITV, Model: Lotus 7 replica, Body Style: Convertible" (it gets titled as the year in which it was built).

 

Now, I come to transfer the title, and find out that Illinois has to carry over all the info from the WA title, so it would be titled as a 2011 in Illinois, rather than the 1957 it would have been if I had titled it in Illinois originally under their rules.

 

My problem is emissions. It, ah, won't pass emissions without heavy modifications (if at all), and I don't want to have to do that. Unfortunately, since it's titled as a 2011, it will get flagged for emissions testing. The "Illinois Air Team" website indicates Custom Vehicles get a pass (http://www.epa.state.il.us/air/vim/faq/exempt.html), but noone at the emissions office even knows about that, and insist that because it's titled as a 2011 it has to pass emissions anyway.

 

Anyone have any ideas? Already spoke to Nicholas at the IL Sec. Of State office, and he doesn't think there's anything that can be done on his end, but I'm hoping there's some wisdom in these here pages.

 

UPDATE: Sorry - just realized I posted this in the events forums - is there a better location, and if so, how do I move it?

Edited October 1, 2013 by miatacarpc

[lucky dawg]

If the car is still in WA, have WSP reinspect it and have it retitled as 19??. Then transfer the new title to Illinois and they should accept it. If the car is already in IL, try checking the larger licensing offices for someone who knows how to handle custom/kit cars.

[miatacarpc]

Unfortunately, in IL, all kit car titles have to be mailed in to the Sec. of State's office for processing - AFAIK, that's one guy, and he tells me it can't be done. The title info (make, model, etc.) has to stay the same.

[rx7locost]

If you can't get it titled directly the way you want, ask Nicholas if you can transfer it in as a 2011 and then immediately get it retitled as a Custom Vehicle. This is a special catagory in Illinois for replica vehicles after 1946 (I believe). If he is good, he can do it all in one step. I dealt with Luann (?) 3 years ago in the Illinois Secretary of State Police Office in Springfield (different from the usual Titling and licensing SOS offices). At that time, she was THE person handling ALL "specially constructed" vehicles. My 1960 Lotus Custom was titled 3 years ago is emission-free. The laws have not changed since. I am absolutely certain there is a way.

 

If you need more info, give me a PM.

Edited October 1, 2013 by rx7locost

[SkinnyG]

Or maybe you just "finished" the kit this year. And it will be titled as a new construction 1957. Did you keep your receipts?

[Automoda]

My car has a sticker on it as the VIN number. Despite all of the hoops one has to jump through to title a car like this, it does not accomplish the job of positively identifying the car forever. I could scratch the sticker off in 1 minute and re-apply through the whole title process and title it over and over again. The frame has a home-made looking frame number on it, but apparently they dont care to call it a vin, so it is not recorded anywhere in the paperwork. If Birkin had made a more realistic identifier than B1RK1N1234 like A2FF2CB1RK66A9AV2 it would have saved me 500 dollars in the registration process because it would have had an acceptable VIN. Even so, it would take me a trip to Harbor Freight to pick up a set of lettering stamps and a few seconds with the mig welder to replace that frame number. These cars are NOT safe from being stolen and re-registered. Nor are they safe from someone re-titling them at a whim (Regardless of what the overlords think about it). Just sayin.

 

Fortunately mine is titled as a 1965 Lotus Seven. The boss lady wanted it as a 2009 (when it was finished) but I pointed to 2 places in the law that said it could be titled as a 1965 and explained how that helped the resale value. The desk people saw the law and relented. Remember! Government is never your friend!

[rx7locost]

In due respect to others, what happens in any other state is not relevant to the Illinois titling process. You must follow Illinois laws and precedent. States are funny that way. In order to get the exemption from emission testing in Illinois, you MUST be registered as a "Custom Vehicle" or be registered as prior to 1968. You must request the "Custom Vehicle" classification on your title application/correction form. Here is the IL state statute that you may need to quote to get retitled to an earlier year and get re-classed as a "Custom Vehicle".

 

 

From 625 ILCS 5/3-107:

 

......In the event the applicant seeks to have the vehicle titled as a custom vehicle or street rod, that fact must be stated in the application. The custom vehicle or street rod must be inspected as required by Section 3-406 of this Code prior to issuance of the title. Upon successful completion of the inspection, the vehicle may be titled in the following manner. The make of the vehicle shall be listed as the make of the actual vehicle or the make it is designed to resemble (e.g., Ford or Chevrolet); the model of the vehicle shall be listed as custom vehicle or street rod; and the year of the vehicle shall be listed as the year the actual vehicle was manufactured or the year it is designed to resemble. A vehicle previously titled as other than a custom vehicle or street rod may be issued a corrected title reflecting the custom vehicle or street rod model if it otherwise meets the requirements for the designation.

 

You have to identify the year yourself, the state will not do so for you. I chose 1960, the first year of the Lotus Seven Series 2, before any safety or emission stuff. I also had a copy of a Lotus advertisement from 1960 proving this. So even if the Illinois Air Team doesn't recognize the Custom Vehicle part of the registration, the car will be automatically exempt by being prior to 1967.

 

As said earlier, you might be able to do this in one step without having to go thru the 2-step title process.

 

If you try to go the route SkinnyG suggested, trying to claim it is recently built and your are applying for its first title, you will a) most likely be in violation of some Federal or Washington state law by removing the Washington VIN and 2) most likely have to pay an Illinois "Use Tax" on the parts purchased out of state. This would probably not be good for you even if you had the original receipts.

 

Keep us informed.

Edited October 2, 2013 by rx7locost

[miatacarpc]

RX7locost, thanks for the info.

 

That was exactly the reference I needed. I will talk to Nicholas about the quoted section, particularly the last sentence, which is the one I couldn't find by myself:

 

A vehicle previously titled as other than a custom vehicle or street rod may be issued a corrected title reflecting the custom vehicle or street rod model if it otherwise meets the requirements for the designation

 

Nicholas was pretty adamant that it couldn't be changed, so I guess he was wrong. Now I get to go tell him that, and plead my case. I'll include a printed, highlighted copy of that statute with my application. Many thanks again, Fingers Crossed. I'll report back with findings.

 

And on a general note, whilst I appreciate the input from others on the forum, I echo RX7locost's comments that registration processes in one state have absolutely no relevance to the process in other states. That's why I specified IL in the OP. Having been through two of these, I can tell you that WA state is different from IL in many of the rules - that's why I'm in this mess. With state sovereignty guaranteed by the constitution, they can make up whatever rules they want in many cases (speed limits, road signs, "turn on red" rules, etc.), which leads to situations like this, where the rules are in conflict.

[Hettric]

RX7locost, thanks for the info.

 

 

And on a general note, whilst I appreciate the input from others on the forum, I echo RX7locost's comments that registration processes in one state have absolutely no relevance to the process in other states. That's why I specified IL in the OP. Having been through two of these, I can tell you that WA state is different from IL in many of the rules - that's why I'm in this mess. With state sovereignty guaranteed by the constitution, they can make up whatever rules they want in many cases (speed limits, road signs, "turn on red" rules, etc.), which leads to situations like this, where the rules are in conflict.

 

I feel your pain, I was told by the "higher ups" in my state's registry, "we don't care what another state did".

[lucky dawg]

And on a general note, whilst I appreciate the input from others on the forum, I echo RX7locost's comments that registration processes in one state have absolutely no relevance to the process in other states. That's why I specified IL in the OP.

 

Exactly the reason I asked if the car was still in WA for a reinspection.

[miatacarpc]

Ironically enough, in my case, IL seems very much to care what WA state did. To the extent where they refused to make any changes to the title, because they had to respect that WA put on there. Crazy

[miatacarpc]

So, a quick update.

 

Spoke to Nicholas again, and he is quite adamant that the title cannot be changed. At this point, I will be speaking to his supervisor, Debbie, next week, to try and get some resolution. This is has been a stupidly over-complicated headache. The statute that RX7locost pointed me to seems pretty clear and worded to address exactly this kind of issue, so why are they making this difficult?

[rx7locost]

Miatacarpc, You have a PM.

[rx7locost]

Well, it has been a month now since we last heard from you. Have you made any progress with the title?