Klasik-69

I was scrolling down the post and noticed the Teen Safety & Survival School is normally $1000 but now only $600 ! We conduct that school down here Florida (SCCA & Tire Rack) for $30 per student. I'm sure the LRP school must be pretty comprehensive but either fee, $1000 or $600, seems to be pretty steep for a teenager or his family to cough up. Maybe there's more to it than what I see.

Question: how do you keep track of which turbo fits a particular engine ? They look like they're piled up without any sense of order, although I suspect you know exactly what you have & which pile it's in. I have never seen so many turbos, ever. Impressive. How many years of collecting does this represent ?

I hope he has an S3 chassis too. I'll send him a pm to see if he can shed some light. thanks for the tip.

Well, I may have been smoking something funny when I figured 65 lbs. I went back and looked at the Hoosier specs and the SM6 tire weighs 19 lbs and my wheels weight 14.5 lbs. That adds up to 33.5 lbs plus a little weight for the air inside. Maybe closing in on 38 lbs. The 13" wheels/tire combinations feel like 20 lbs, give or take. So I saved around 72 lbs, which means I can now eat a large pizza before jumping in the car without any negative effects.:flag:

Thanks for the input (and a check on my sanity). I think I can achieve the resulting gear ratios by the selection of tire diameters easier than changing the diff. ratio. I'll know better once I get the car out on the track with the 13" wheels/tires. For one thing, the weight went from about 65 lbs/wheel with the 205-50 R15 to about 20 lbs on the 13" wheel & 20.5X9.5X13 tires. Acceleration should be pretty brisk and upper end speed is still a mystery. On the tranny issue, I have never heard of the SADEV sequential transmission. I looked it up and found they are a French company with a lot of transaxle, transmission and differentials for race cars in both 2WD and 4WD but couldn't get details on the 6 speed application for the Zetec. There is a company in England that represents them and can make adapter mounting plates to mate up any SADEV tranny to any engine. I wasn't sure if SADEV had specific trannies for the Zetec. Also, not sure how compact they are. I looked at the space around my transmission in my S3, and it's a tight fit for sure. I also wondered about the placement of the shifter vs. the T9. Have you seen any SADEV mounted in a S3 chassis ?

Since there has been so much talk about the Zetec's oil pump issues at higher rpm's, I have redlined mine at 7200 to be on the safe side. I don't need to trash the motor over an oil pump issue. Jon @ Caterham USA told me the engine is good all the way up to 8000 rpm and I believe him. So I figure 10% below that is a good safe bet. Honda engines are so well built and balanced that 9K is no effort. They're used to building bike engines that rev into the 15K to 18K and supplied all the engines for the Indy cars for a few years without one single engine failure. If I had to start from scratch, I'd go with the S2000 engine and SC. BUT, I have what I have and I still think this is a good engine with very good power. I just need a little more, but don't we all just need a little more. It's never enough if you're competitive. I do believe that at some point this little car can become unbalanced with too much power. A scalpel can become a boom axe, results can become ugly.

You're absolutely correct.............except my car has a 5 speed and 5th is OD. 4th is 1:1. But you are correct with my 3.62 rear end ratio. The problem I've been having is with the 205-50R15 tires/wheels, I run out of 4th but run short on grunt in 5th. So I went back to the 13" wheels and went with the 20.5" OD bias ply Hoosiers. I need more revs at a lower speed to be able to use 5th gear. Not sure that will work but mathematically, it should. According to my calculations, I would hit 121 mph @ 7200 rpm in 4th gear, 143 mph @ 7200 rpm in 5th gear. I have squeezed (tail wind, drafting, and farting) 131 mph, and I think it was slightly downhill at Roebling, not to mention coming out of turn 9 like a crazed lunatic on crack. :willy_nilly: I have already ditched the air brakes (windshield and watermelon sized headlights). I would love to be able to hit 140 in the 7. I'm not sure it's possible, but I can try. If you think I'm all wet on this, please let me know. You know a heck of lot more about these cars than I do. I'm learning as I go. That means making mistakes along the way.

Thanks for the links. I don't know which is more compact, the procharger in these links or the Rotrex. As you well know, space is at a premium, especially in the S3 chassis One of the shops in the UK said they didn't think with the cr I have that I would be able to go above 10 or 12 psi, but that kind of boost with the engine I have would yield great power. They didn't put a number down as to "great power". If I do a complete tear down and install the right components, I could get into the 320 hp range, maybe. How reliable would that engine be ? not sure, most of my running is on the track and I'm usually using as much power as I can squeeze. However, with around 320 crank, maybe 270 rwhp, I might not need to squeeze it that hard. Also, I'm seriously thinking of mounting the intercooler on the right side of the engine bay. It may not be as efficient as a front mounted but it would be close. The piping would be much easier and it wouldn't compromise the other front end components as much. Also, much easier than making a new nose cone for the car. Would I need an oil cooler ? Some seem to think so.

Whether it's the Zetec, Duratec or Ecotec that can produce X amount of HP isn't really the main concern, it has more to do with which on can be fitted to the Caterham S3 chassis along with the tranny mated to the power plant. Maybe this is not the issue for those of you with larger chassis that can accommodate either turbos or superchargers, or those who have Westfields or other similar generous engine bays, but it is for me. I've heard back from several UK shops who prefer turbos for the Zetec vs SC but who also say the SC will work well if it will fit better. Nobody sells a Zetec "kit", and in fact I can't even find an S3 with one installed (yet). I would have to initially lower my cr down to 9.5, 10.0 max, and likely go with forged rods & crank, HD rod, main & head bolts. Forged pistons if mine aren't already, modify the front nose cone to be 3" to 4" longer up front to allow space for the intercooler and then remap the ECU. All of it is possible. Does it make sense ? Not sure. Cost ? Not sure. Also, if I gained 100 rwhp, what gain in top end on a long straight would I gain vs my current 183 rwhp ? Now about 130 + or -...........150 ???

Yes, I contacted TTS. They have the bracket, SC and a replacement alternator. I still have the intercooler issue, and seeing if I can remap the Pectel ECU for the SC. Roughly $3900 w/o inter cooler or piping. $350 for an intercooler, $100 for piping, and ??$ to custom make a new longer nose cone.

On the Duratec or the Zetec ? I've seen the kits for the Duratecs which have the exhaust and intake on opposite sides of the Zetec but I have yet to see an S3 chassis Caterham with the Zetec and the Rotrex SC. There is a company in UK that has the Zetec partial kit which includes the mounting plate, the Rotrex SC, a replacement alternator and the idler/belt assembly but they omit the intercooler and piping.

Has anybody heard of this outfit ? http://www.rotrexsuperchargers.co.uk/Rotrex/pages/products/engineDIY/Ford20/prod_ford20.html They have the bracket for mounting the Rotrex supercharger to the Zetec which seems to require the repositioning of the alternator. The alternator is also part of their kit. However, no ducting, piping, or intercooler is included but it does show how its plumbed. Interesting.

Good suggestion, I'll check it out. If I could keep what I have and just add on to it, it would be best option. Many people say that the Zetec motors don't do well with turbos or SC, not sure why unless it's a durability issue. I always thought any motor will benefit from forced induction. I guess the intake on the left side of the engine gets in the way of the steering shaft. These cars are such a tight package (which is a good thing) that getting everything to fit can be difficult.

Now the big question.....................how much does the SC duratec coupled to the sadev sequential gear box cost ? If the duratec with a SC can fit in the narrow chassis, then is it possible to add the SC to the Zetec in the same chassis ? We have a driver in SCCA Atlanta area running a locost with a Miata motor/tranny combination who has a turbo on it. Everything he added is outside the shell. The intercooler is sticking out the side, as is the oil cooler and some of the exhaust. It doesn't look very good (and I'm being very kind) but he is faster than anything else out there by a long shot. He has videos on YouTube of him running the Tail of the Dragon. I talked to him at Road Atlanta where he was running around 1:30 per lap, faster than a lot of formula cars. If I remember correctly, he told me he was pulling 330 rwhp and using the stock Miata transmission. For that matter, I believe Skip is also running a stock Miata transmission and he's well above 300 hp. Is the Miata tranny that much better than the T9 ?

Skip, I have studied your car more than anyone elses for the very reason you have exactly the setup I would want. However, you have the wide chassis and I don't so it would be a shoe horn of a job. I have my spec Miata with a very solid 1.8L engine & solid 6 speed tranny. So engine availability is there, and even without it, I can buy a good used 1.8L for less than $1200, $1500 with the tranny. I thought about running the intercooler in front of the radiator, modifying the front nose of the car to accomodate the extra length, then running the hoses under the radiator. I was hoping to see someone else have attempted to do just that successfully. Like most people, I want more power. Mike

Would the duratec with a supercharger fit in the narrow chassis I have ? Cranking this up to 330 hp would be fun. Not sure if it mates up to the T9 5 speed I now have but perhaps the T9 wouldn't handle the added hp. Good suggestion, thanks Mike. Mike

I've been following this post with great interest. I'm in the same position, I want more power. Not for acceleration, not for the mid-range, but like MichaelD, for the top end. I hit 134 once at Roebling, and only because I came out of turn 9 like a crazed lunatic on a mission, and I had a tail wind, and I happen to be on the tail of a GT3 who was sweating bullets from my pursuit. Of course, half way down the straight, he became a smaller object in front of me. I hate that with a passion. It was my understanding that with a standard chassis, there isn't enough room for a turbo or the intercooler, or the hose connection from the intercooler to the turbo or intake. There is some debate about there being enough room even with the wider chassis although Scannon and others have proven that to be wrong. I've looked at possibly using a centrifugal supercharger but the logistics are the same. I've read about using a roots type blower and doing without the intercooler, but again I don't know where that would go without just throwing away the hood (excuse me, the bonnet). I got some quotes from Cosworth for HP duratecs. My engine is the older Zetec with good power at 183 rwhp and my car is the superlight R300. Cosworth's engine at 295 HP is running close to $20K, or if you look at it differently, the extra 75 or so HP is costing $253/hp. I don't think it's cost effective. I don't think I can get a bigger motor in this frame so adding displacement isn't going to work either. Question: Is there a way to add a turbo to the Zetec in a standard chassis without it looking like a complete abortion ? If anyone has done it, can you post some pictures.

No I didn't know, but I'm not sure if you're puting me on. I could understand if it was "Urnl" but if its the same number of letters, why misspell it ? Ah, you guys are having fun with me again. I wish people would use common terms like "$hitter" for us southern boys who don't go to the big city very often. If it's upscale, then it becomes a "Turlet" so women can use it too and not feint. My wife goes in public toilets with her sanitation kit, cleans the whole bathroom before she uses it. I wish I could hold off that long. Now you guys see the importance of a good epoxy finished floor..............need to go, just go. Everything beads up and a little mopping action and it's spic n span.

The problem is the one thing you didn't need.............the "uranyl". OK, what's a uranyl ? Did you mean a urinal ? It's kind of like the Peter Principle which dictates that the time it takes to perform a task expands to the time alloted, hence 10 hour work days don't produce as much as 5 of the 8 hour work days. A shop will accumulate as much material and equipment as there is space to accomodate it. I am the prime example of such a principle, and it looks like you are the poster child. When I decided to epoxy the floors on this building, I promised myself that I would not buy welding or machining equipment, and kind of used the epoxy floor as an enforcer of that promise. I'm fortunate that my business has several large buildings with all the metal fabricating equipment anyone could dream of. So it's actually easy for me to just go over there and make what I need. My car building stays clean, my cars stay clean, and employees clean up the mess I make at the main building. Life is good :hurray:

You guys are right about welding splatter not being friendly to expoxy. I don't do any metal fabrication in this garage. I have my main business building where I have mig and tig welders, plasma cutters and other metal fabricating machinery. All the floors there are bare concrete. I didn't know they could add color to the concrete when they do the pour, nifty thing. I guess then they can polish it to the finish you want.....maybe the best way to go and the most durable.

You speak of airplane hangars. We have an air park in Apopka (just north of Orlando) that sells airplane hangar condos. Just like what Croc is doing at NJMP, the plane hangar below, the living quarters above. Some are huge and extremely well appointed, and very big bucks too. Apparently the airplane hangar condos are a popular new thing in a lot of places, kind of an extreme man-cave.

Xcarguy, it looks like your wheels are urethane. Mine are steel so I had to be extra careful when moving my lift over my new floor. The urethane wheels are much easier on the floor. And, I like your idea of hanging them on the wall. Mine are just resting against the wall, your idea is better. My next project is now firmly on the board.

Most of the Pectel units for this time era are the T2. I pulled the wiring diagrams off the internet since I didn't have anything from Caterham that referenced the Pectel T2. I think you have the TWN/Borla ITB's because yours look just like mine. You can tell from the pressure regulator which will reference the TWN name. It makes no difference since the ITB's pretty much all work the same. There could be a difference in the TPS but I doubt it. For the life of me, I don't understand why they put low impedance injectors in these that can't be correctly configured by the Pectel unit. I put the pressure gauge on the end of the fuel rail by drilling the blue anodized plug and threading it with an 1/8" npt tap and screwing the gauge directly into it. Put the allen wrench in the pressure reg and screw it out until your unit is around 40 to 42 psi. You can PM me and give me your email address so I can send you the latest Pectel map for you to install. Apparently you need the software disc as well. I can make you a copy of mine or you can obtain one from Neal @ Apex Speed Tech. You won't know if your unit is locked or unlocked until you hook up with the software and try to read the current maps. Mine had about four different maps for different engine configurations (turbo, non-turbo, etc) and of course none of them were what I needed. On the Pectel cable, I bough mine from Neal at Apex Speed Technology in California who happen to be the USA dealer for Pectel. I had the software disc from the original owner but he never fooled with the software or mapping. Oh, one more thing you will need is the air flow gauge for setting the ITB's initial throttle plate and TPS. I found one on eBay for around $45 which works just great. The other way of doing it is drilling and tapping each runner for an 1/8" npt hose barb and using a vacuum gauge (PITA).

You left out a few details when you first posted. I've heard about these "garages"........more like another home, and best of all, at the track. Apparently this is a trend at the upper end tracks like Audubon and Spring Mountain. This is the best of both worlds, a garage, a crash pad, and at the track. It should be illegal to have that much fun. There is an outfit in New Jersey that sells polyurethane flooring products for garages I checked out before deciding on my floor material. I'll look them up and give you their number and web site to check out. They have an installer that works the NJ area that I talked to. He prepares garages, service bays for car dealerships and airplane hangars. He may be of use for your project if you don't have anyone in mind yet. On the lifts, there are many to choose from. Classic, Direct, Atlas and many others. All are very reasonably priced and perform well. I like the 4 post lift from direct since I have the casters that allow me to move the lift wherever I want with relative ease. They claim you can move it around with a car on it but I doubt it would be with ease. Also, once you have your floors coated you will need to be careful moving around the lift with steel casters. Spinning the casters may damage the floor coating. I laid down masonite 1/8" sheets on my floor to move the lift to position, then laid the posts on a square piece of masonite to keep the floor protected. I learned my lesson on my detached garage at the house when I had the lift there and moved it in position, ended up scarring up the floor when I spun the casters. I found that by having the two types of lifts allows me more options, depending on whether I'm working on brakes, exhaust, etc. The 4 post is good for storing one car above the other, or waxing one car without having to bend down or reach up. Once you get this beautiful garage done, you will find you have so many more friends that you will need to get a pit bull to keep some out.:rofl:

Yes, it looked like a beautiful car. I can't seem to part with cars, it's like selling one of my kids. It's easier to just get a bigger garage :jester:. I have raced against some cobras that ran very strong and could hang with anything out there. Most of the better ones were strangely enough the 289 powered cars. It seemed like the 427 cars had guys with big egos and small skill levels. The Stalkers are a very good value, and a car I strongly considered (still do). For around $28K, you have a very formidable track car. Add another 3 or 4K, and you have a very nicely finished super car. Caterhams dig a little deeper in the wallet but they are very well put together and work very very well. It's tough, so many choices these days. However, since my wife has told me more than once that she would really like to have a 1958 Corvette, black with silver coves, it may preceed the Stalker.