Caterham (?) project value

[rick r]

Apologies for the vagueness and the lack of details, but a neighbor has a seven that he says is a caterham from, I believe, the early 90s. It's been on jackstands for years and it's not in running condition but I believe it's mostly complete and comes with a title. See picture below. He mentioned something about requiring some modifications to the oil pump. I'd like to make him an offer but I have no idea how much a project like this would go for. Any thoughts appreciated.

 

 

 

 

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[10speedbird]

Buy it! It does appear to be an early 90's car with a VERY desirable and rare Cosworth BDR Engine. It also has up rated suspension and brakes and am sure lots of other goodies. Even if this car is a basket case I would suggest $35k-$40k as the BDR Engine alone would be a $15k engine.

[SCse7en]

I wish he was my neighbor!

[rick r]

Thanks for the feedback. There's no guarantee he'll want to sell, but like they say, if you don't ask, the answer is always no.

 

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[Croc]

That is a really special find.

 

I will inject a note of caution to the above estimate. A pristine 1990s Caterham with a BDR is asking $37k at Wirewheel - maybe $34k without dealer premium. Lots of photos to compare this against.

 

However,

- You dont know what spec this BD engine is. Is it BDR? BDG? BDD? The hp can vary greatly and higher hp is higher dollars. I suspect it is BDR just from the ancilliaries but the owner will likely know.

- You dont know what the motor is like internally - does it need a rebuild? Same goes for gearbox and diff.

- Its been sitting some time so everything has dried out and gone hard and in some cases cracked - radiator hoses, bushings, gas lines, brake lines, tires, etc. Cars take a long time to bring back from sitting doing nothing and these parts add up quickly...ask me how I know!

- Then it is pretty messy - you will want to take bits apart and give it a good clean up - lots of work for you or expensive mechanics

- Then there are unknowns - what exactly is the oil pump issue? Did it starve the bearings before it needed modification? A clue is in the headlights - look at the tape. Did he have a problem with oil pressure on track? I bet he did. BD engine oil pumps are not cheap. BD engine rebuilds are even more expensive.

 

All this takes parts, effort, sweat, labor.

 

I don't want to scare you but I do want you to go in on this eyes open. This is definitely a worthwhile project with a very desirable seven that is titled.

 

With the uncertainties from above, I would give a range of $20k to $30k and I am leaning at the lower half of that range based on the limited photos. That range is huge and could easily be wrong - it needs to be narrowed with answers to the above questions.

 

The priority to make a deal happen:

1) Engage the owner on the car - he has to be moved towards selling and that means you are helping him to emotionally release from a car. You have to persuade the owner to give up a failed dream - his failure.

2) At the same time you have to try to get answers on the open questions - this firms up your view of the price to be offered. IF in doubt you go low in bid.

3) Then you have to persuade him to release it at a price that makes sense to him emotionally and to you rationally/economically. Thats done by knowing the market for complete cars and what is required to get the car back to condition where it equals that value. The seller will not have done that homework since he will be thinking emotionally.

 

This process can be lengthy and take hours or months but thats how barn finds happen - its just that some sellers get to the right outcome quicker than others.

 

Good luck!!!!

Edited June 2, 2018 by Croc

[Kitcat]

I vote low $$ as well. It is a Caterham. There should be a mfg plate with serial letters & #'s behind the pedal assembly. That will tell you what year it is and what spec, to some degree. As Croc notes, Wire Wheels has a nice one for $37K. Long time member Sabbot also has a pristine version with a BD engine that he is selling for $34K. This one will takes tons of time and money to bring back from the dead. So maybe $12-15K, to be safe? So much expensive stuff may need to be fixed/replaced. And in spite of what you may hear, Caterham parts are often nearly impossible to find. It does have a nice upside but the reality is that newer cars with Duratec engines are as powerful, cheaper and more reliable and get better mpg. For some (like me), the BD engine is still a major selling point, but I suspect I am in the minority.

[rick r]

That is a really special find.

 

The priority to make a deal happen:

1) Engage the owner on the car - he has to be moved towards selling and that means you are helping him to emotionally release from a car. You have to persuade the owner to give up a failed dream - his failure.

2) At the same time you have to try to get answers on the open questions - this firms up your view of the price to be offered. IF in doubt you go low in bid.

3) Then you have to persuade him to release it at a price that makes sense to him emotionally and to you rationally/economically. Thats done by knowing the market for complete cars and what is required to get the car back to condition where it equals that value. The seller will not have done that homework since he will be thinking emotionally.

 

This process can be lengthy and take hours or months but thats how barn finds happen - its just that some sellers get to the right outcome quicker than others.

 

Good luck!!!!

 

 

I vote low $$ as well. It is a Caterham. There should be a mfg plate with serial letters & #'s behind the pedal assembly. That will tell you what year it is and what spec, to some degree. As Croc notes, Wire Wheels has a nice one for $37K. Long time member Sabbot also has a pristine version with a BD engine that he is selling for $34K. This one will takes tons of time and money to bring back from the dead. So maybe $12-15K, to be safe? So much expensive stuff may need to be fixed/replaced. And in spite of what you may hear, Caterham parts are often nearly impossible to find. It does have a nice upside but the reality is that newer cars with Duratec engines are as powerful, cheaper and more reliable and get better mpg. For some (like me), the BD engine is still a major selling point, but I suspect I am in the minority.

 

 

Thank you gentlemen, that's very helpful. I'll keep you updated.