Pulley Timing Mark & Distributor Alignment on '93 xflow

[Tony]

Working on my '93 xflow, replacing the Pertronix Ignitor and need to be sure about aligning the distributor and timing marks after removal.

How exactly do you align the spines on the distributor shaft when you replace it?

I have the mark on the pulley lined up with the third mark BTDC.

I assume that is 12 degrees BTDC, but markings not legible.

When I removed the distributor I noted/marked the rotor position for cyl. 1 on the edge and lifted it out.

There is a white dot on the edge which looks like it may have been the factory mark for assembly. 

These two marks are a about 20 degrees apart.

To be sure, how would you do the alignment?

 

Appreciate your insights.

 

Tony

 

 

 

 

 

[IamScotticus]

no expert here,

just remember the rotor turn 1/2x crank speed so, there are two different TDCs, one will be wrong.

Just be sure you align on the right stroke.

 

Last time I reinstalled my dizzy, I remember I had to rotate the splines in advance of where the rotor will settle because of the curvature of the drive gear.

 

Pop off the the rocker cover and determine which TDC has both #1 valves closed.

then install the dizzy so the rotor points to #1 sparky.

 

Indexing the rotor to #1 will be a gerry-rigging of tape and pointers, markers, whatever.   there isn't anything on the dizzy I know of to align it.

If I had the parts to spare   I would cut the top off a bad upper half and make an index on that.

Edited May 1, 2022 by IamScotticus

[Tony]

Thanks IamScotticus, great suggestions.  Dang just had the valve cover off.......

[S1Steve]

May I recommend you find a manual. I went out in the garage and found some info out of an older Burton catalog….

 

 

 

 

Edited May 2, 2022 by JohnCh
Rotated images

[IamScotticus]

The Wallage book is close to $1K in new condition if you can find it.  The last one I saw on AMZ was 1k.

 

That Des Hammill Pinto SOHC book is now $100.

 

this from Pegasus is very good 

https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productdetails.asp?RecID=1639

 

Also you will have more availability of the Haynes for Escort MK 1.

Im seeing them on fleabay now for $12-20

 

Another good source are articles in Classic Ford Magazine.  unfortunately,  no one ever made any effort to put it all in one online collection. 

Edited May 2, 2022 by IamScotticus

[IamScotticus]

https://www.burtonpower.com/tuning-guides/tuning-guide-pages/ford-kent-crossflow-tuning-guide.html

 

https://www.burtonpower.com/tuning-guides.html

[MV8]

If you put your thumb over the #1 plug hole as you rotate the crank toward tdc the pressure can be felt as you approach tdc on the compression stroke. If the mark on the body was correct, you can just drop it in and rotate the body to align with the center of the rotor tip. Check it with a timing light.

[Tony]

Thanks everyone.  Looked into manuals but decided to turn (the crank) and learn.

Took a few tries but managed to get the distributor in correctly everything aligning as needed.

Awaiting a new pertronix ignitor and spark plug wires while I have easy access.

 

Really appreciated your insights.

 

Tony

[Tony]

Checked the entire setup for timing with the help of a knowledgeable friend.  Pulley mark 12deg BTDC.  #1 piston top of compression stroke.  Rotor pointing at #1 plug wire.

Turned over with timing light, it fires when the pulley mark at approx. 120deg BTDC, not 12deg.

How can that be?

Valve timing and pistons are exactly right.

Is it possible for a pulley to slip?

Tried previously advancing and retarding the rotor one spline, no help.......

 

This was with a new Pertronix LU-143A. (photo: newign143a)

Sensor is in a different location than the previous LU-143. (photo: lastign143-1)

According to Pertronix the "A" fits more engines and the "redesigned magnet ring" takes into account the new sensor location.

 

Totally baffled, again appreciate your input.

 

Tony

 

[MV8]

New pickup location in the distributor only affects the clocking of the distributor body, which I see you have already compensated for.

If you mean that you spun the engine over with the starter while observing the timing light (which is set to zero if a dial back light), the rpm is too low. Minimum rpm is 500rpm for 12deg.

[MV8]

16 minutes ago, MV8 said:

New pickup location in the distributor only affects the clocking of the distributor body, which I see you have already compensated for.

 

If you mean that you spun the engine over with the starter while observing the timing light (which is set to zero if a dial back light), the rpm is too low. Minimum rpm is 500rpm for 12deg.

 

EDIT:

 It just occurred to me that the reluctor and rotor have a fixed relationship on the shaft but the cap terminals to pickup have been altered. I see the relationship change appears to be about 45 degrees, not 90, 180, or 0 deg difference to the old position. Perhaps the plate or pickup are mounted in the wrong position?

[Tony]

Interesting.  Would it be possible to use a test light with a pertronix to static set the dist. at 12deg?

 

[Tony]

Will send a photo to pertronix to see if it is installed incorrectly, was wondering about that.

[MV8]

20 minutes ago, Tony said:

Interesting.  Would it be possible to use a test light with a pertronix to static set the dist. at 12deg?

 

I think so. I usually line up everything so it starts easily, screw in the throttle a bit, and adjust with a light after it is running.  

I looked up the instructions. It should be a two plate assembly with a vacuum lockout link to keep them from rotating independently so the lower plate could be off. Should use the new magnet sleeve too, versus trying to reuse the old one.

[Tony]

Right on the double plates, did use the lockout link, plus new magnet ring.

Have an email in to Pertronix with a photo to determine if it is correct.

Hope that settles it.

At this point can't even get the car to run, need some definitive answers and maybe start looking elsewhere......

[MV8]

Did it run ok before? I don't think these engines have a crank damper that would allow the timing marks to slip.

It can't be pointing to the #1 cap terminal in both distributor pics unless you moved the wires on the cap.

If you replaced the plug wires at the same time, recheck the firing order.

Verify the plugs are firing when you engage the starter with an inline clear tester, or a spark plug with a ground clip.

Verify the carbs are getting fuel by observing the accelerator pump shot spray.

If you suspect the ignition system is not working, you could spin the shaft of the assembled distributor in your hand with the body grounded and fire the plugs. There is a volt drop when using the starter that is sometimes too much for the ignition system to function. Check the voltage at the coil while cranking if the plugs won't fire until you release the starter button as the engine comes to a stop.

[Tony]

It ran fine before storage, battery died, replaced battery via jumpers (carbs have to come off to actually replace the battery), wouldn't turn over.  Tried push starting in 2nd several times, no luck, but extreme jerks and jolts, pops ending with an ugly metallic clank.  Brought it home, replaced battery, got it running, but very rough.  Cleared carb jets, then discovered a bad plug wire.  At that point, added new wires, cap and rotor, followed by new ignitor.  Turns over gangbusters but would never run.  That metallic clank has me spooked, that's why I was wondering about slippage somewhere.  Top photo with mark is where the rotor turned to while removing, #1 cap contact is at the double marks in the lower photo while still installed.  Did check plug wires, correct with 1243 firing order.  Good idea to check voltages, plugs were firing.  May take some time to get these suggestions worked through.

Thanks!

[MV8]

Might check the plug condition, gap, and pump the linkage a few times before engaging the starter.

1243 is ccw in the overhead view.

 

 

Edited May 9, 2022 by MV8

[DavidL]

I have a 1990 Caterham with the 1700 SuperSprint X-flow with Petronix ignition.    After I'd had the car for a while, it started missing, then eventually wouldn't start (leaving me stranded an hour from home)....  it took me forever to figure out the problem (since it was intermittent), but in the end the problem was that whoever had installed the Petronix and the plate assemby in the distributor had it 180 degreess out (or maybe it was upside down).  That caused the sensor wires to have to snake around inside the distributor before exiting.  Eventually they wore through (I cant's remember what part they were touching that caused the wear).  After much research and help from Petronix, I installed the plate correctly (and ended up buying a new Petronix kit), with the wires exiting the distributor with a much shorter path, and it's been fine for the decade since.  I did a quick search of my digital pictures, but unfortunately couldn't find any useful pictures.  I may have some notes elsewhere though.

 

Cheers,  -David

 

 

 

[Tony]

You folks are Great!

Thank you for all of the suggestions, reviewed them all, repeatedly, dug into the timing and found the rotor spline one tooth off.  Could have sworn we checked that, but it finally started.  Had replaced the battery after removing the carbs.  Once re-installed it was running really rough.  Lifted the front of the carb and it smoothed out.  Seems it was sucking air around the vibration damper inserts.  Once tightened it ran much better.  Do appreciate all of the input.  Thank you!

Tony