360S S3 "Yellowjacket" Build in Upstate SC

[KnifeySpoony]

8 hours ago, Yoram said:

Thank you @KnifeySpoony!   Good to know as I too swear by zip ties.  Do you have zip ties in direct contact with/securing coolant hoses?  

Yes tons on hoses (coolant and oil). I've seen many racecars (even LMP cars etc) with zipties on coolant hoses and oil lines). Pretty sure it's not an issue...

[Yoram]

More Plumbing -- Lower Radiator Hose

 

Per advice from Josh R, I revised the routing of the lower radiator hose to avoid the hump over the chassis tube yet keep it away from the brake lines.

This required shortening the hose in the section above the steering rack to pull it away from the brake lines.

I used the cut (and sliced) portion as a cushion around the hose securing it to the chassis tube.

 

View down from front of car

 

 

View from left side

 

 

View from right side into brake line junction area (note clearance).

 

 

Cheers,

 

Yoram

Edited April 5, 2023 by Yoram

[Yoram]

Small Plumbing and Wiring Tweaks

 

While awaiting some parts (coolant temp sensor, catch bottle and bracket, heater delete blanking plate, battery positive cable) I made some small tweaks to the plumbing and wiring:

 

PLUMBING:  I decided to raise the T connector<-->expansion tank hose to minimize the syphon effect as well as make it a few inches shorter, and to change the T connector from 5/8" to 3/4" to reduce the restriction in the thermostat-modine-submarine-water rail path.  I kept the straight coupler in the expansion tank hose at 5/8" since its flow rate is very low.  (In the pics below the upper radiator hose is temporarily disconnected at the water rail and moved out of the way for a better view and to facilitate installation of the temp sensor.)

 

 

 

 

 

WIRING:  Made and added short extensions to the temp sensor and ground sub-loom to reach the submarine.  Crimped a ring connector to the ground extension (green wire) to tighten directly onto the ground post, eliminating the screw-on tab.  The temp sensor wire is awaiting the sensor...

 

 

 

 

Next steps should be the catch bottle, heater blanking plate, battery cable (only at starter for now), steering shaft, and then the plenum, air box and throttle cable.

 

Cheers!

 

 

 

Edited April 12, 2023 by Yoram
wording

[Yoram]

Hello All,

 

Still awaiting the coolant tamp sensor, catch bottle and bracket, and the battery positive cable (all kit shortages), as well as the heater blanking plate as I have decided to delete the heater.  In the meantime proceeded to install the steering column.

 

 

Steering Column

 

No major issues encountered.  Here are the main steps:

 

1) Installed the U-joint on the pinion shaft with the input (column side) yoke vertical with the rack on center.  I had the pinion center point marked when installing the outer tie rod ends.  Verified by looking back in line just over the front discs and making sure my sight line meets the rear discs symmetrically LH vs. RH.  All this because I want the slowest (most precise) steering rate on center.  See enclosed math, courtesy of MathWorks (public info).

 

 

 

 

2) Inserted the lower steering column from the cockpit and then inserted the bottom splined end into the U-Joint.  Had no issues engaging either U-joint spline.  Greased both spline males beforehand with anti-corrosion grease.

 

3)  Lubricated with lithium grease the lower portion of the upper steering column, inserted it from the cockpit guiding it from the dash end to pass through the lower bushing.  Once it emerged from the "firewall" I mated it with the lower column (upper is female, lower is male).  Again no issues.

 

4)  Rotated the steering rack to minimize the U-joint angle and was able to reach very nearly on-axis alignment between the column and the pinion shaft, rendering step 1)  pretty much moot (but this was not guaranteed).  Had to loosen the rack clamps more (were not tight to start with) and wiggle it to get it to rotate.

 

5)  Lubricated the inside and outside of the upper bushing with silicone grease (it is a split nylon bushing inside a rubber housing) and inserted it onto the upper steering column and pressed it into the dash hole.  Used a suitable diameter socket to push on the outer rubber housing by hand.

6)  Shifted the upper steering column axially so the cone for the steering boss is fully exposed with its largest diameter well proud of the dash; this can be further adjusted later if needed.

 

 

 

 

7)  Aligned the flats of the steering column sections and installed the column clamp mid-length of the flat section.

 

 

 

 

 

8)  Torqued steering rack clamp nuts to ~11 Nm and U-joint nuts to 32 Nm.  Torqued steering column clamp bolts to 14 Nm, and tightened the "grub screw" and its lock nut by feel.  Grub screw requires a 7/32" Allen key.

 

 

 

 

9)  Pulled up the wiring harness near the master brake cylinder and zip-tied clear of the steering column.

10) Tweaked the routing and zip-tied x2 the lower radiator hose to chassis tubes to ensure clearance from U-Joint and brake lines.

 

 

 

 

11)  Verified visually and by "steering" with the wing stays no interference with steering column anywhere.

 

 

 

 

12)  Upon further visual inspection observed a gap between the shaft and its pedal box grommet on its bottom side.  I wish I had taken a pic of the gap as found.  I dozed the grommet with silicone spray from both sides and forced it up as much as it would go, using bare fingers and small pliers from the engine side and a padded craw bar from the inside.  Gap virtually closed.  Will keep an eye on it in case it opens up.  Pulled up and re-tied the electrical harness outside the pedal box.  The pic below is after the fix.

 

 

 

 

Some Lessons Learned:

 - Leave steering rack clamp bolts really loose until U-joint and column installation to allow to rotate the rack easily.  This in order to align the pinion angle with the column.
 - Hold off installing the lower radiator hose until after steering column installed, rack rotated, and rack and U-joint torqued.

 

 

Currently planning next tasks.  Investigating alternatives for front wing attachment to stays.  Ordered coilover adjustment tool.  May start next on the interior.

Cannot button up the engine bay (plenum, throttle cable, airbox) without the catch bottle, temp sensor and battery cable.

On the RH side do not want to install the collector/cat and then torque the header pipes before I'm done with the heater blanking plate and some of the interior.

And I want to delay "cosmetics" (wings, lights) towards the end.

 

 

Cheers!

 

 

 

 

Edited April 23, 2023 by Yoram

[Yoram]

Hello All,

 

Need to do some major catching up.  We've made some progress over the last ~2 weeks but serious lag in documentation.

 

Start with the shortages.  Received the coolant temp sensor, catch bottle and battery positive cable.  Let's cover them in that order.

 

 

Coolant Temp Sensor

 

Installed in submarine with Teflon tape and plugged in the extension wire.  Tightened by feel.  Tested for continuity between sensor body and ground post - checked OK.

(sensor and ground post visible in pic just to the right of vertical black harness)

 

 

 

Since my short extension wires for the temp sensor and ground post are not color coordinated with the original wires, marked S and G on the corresponding connectors and tied small zipties to both sides of the ground wire to prevent crossing them (agree, not super professional cosmetics but will work for now).

 

 

 

 

Catch Bottle

 

First had to disconnect upper radiator hose from radiator and re-route expansion tank hose under the top chassis tubes.

Drilled hole in bottle for catch hose -- used 1" saw bit on drill press; worked perfectly.

 

 

 

 

Drilled out one rivet to reuse the hole and drilled a new hole in the chassis for the bracket, both using my 30+ year old right angle drill adapter; also worked perfectly.

(The rightmost hole below had the rivet, the middle one is new.)

 

 

 

 

 

Needed to extend one of the slots in the bracket to use the existing hole in the chassis (Dremel tool).  Need M4 or #6 washers to bridge these slots under rivet heads.

 

 

 

 

Rearranged expansion tank hose to run under top chassis tubes (only to be re-routed again later...) and zipped the catch bottle vent hose to the chassis down tube:

 

 

 

 

And here with radiator hose back in place (before more changes...).

 

 

 

 

And overall view:

 

 

 

 

Next post will recount the battery positive cable saga.

 

Cheers!

 

[IamScotticus]

Im using your pic so may I ask here?

Does any one know a source for these brackets?

Does this "wedge" type mount have a common name to search by?

[Yoram]

45 minutes ago, IamScotticus said:

Im using your pic so may I ask here?

Does any one know a source for these brackets?

Does this "wedge" type mount have a common name to search by?

 

Sure, no problem!  To be honest, I don't know. This is my first encounter with this type of bracket (or with a catch bottle).

The catch bottle, vent hose and bracket come together as a kit with the Caterham Duratec engine.

 

[IamScotticus]

That bottle has been on every Cat since the 80s.

My ginormous washer bottle uses the same mount.  Those mounts were a pretty zinc cadmium that corroded.

[Yoram]

Battery Positive Cable

 

As some things Caterham, this turned out to be a bigger and more time consuming topic than anticipated.

 

When I first received the cable and tried to install it on the starter post I found the nut started too loose and seemed the wrong size.

I bought and tried various size nuts only to conclude with help from Josh of RMC that the correct nut size is M8x1.25.  Not being sure I had the correct one I bought a couple M8x1.25 ones and they looked and felt exactly the same as the one I had - loose along the exposed part of the thread.  It seems that my starter post is somehow tapered towards the top.

Pondering my options I decided to use the prevailing torque nut method, so I carefully and gradually deformed the nut into slightly oval by squeezing it in the workbench vise between opposite flats.  The starter post seems to be coated with copper and I was aware that the deformed nut may damage the coating but decided this to be preferable over insufficient nut clamp load.  I proceeded to tighten the nut by feel (don't know the torque spec) and it seems to work.  Of course we will really find out when we go live and drive.

Due to the tapered thread and deformed nut I decided to omit the lock washer.

Finally, as the battery cable carries the highest current on the starter post I ended up placing its connector first (bottom) in the stack of connectors.

The following pic was taken before that change.  It shows the deformed nut and the post's copper coating.

 

 

 

 

The next issue was the cable length.  For unknown reason the cable I received, which is supposed to be standard for this kit, was 73" long.  This is enough to wind it completely around the battery and still have extra length beyond reaching the terminal, as can be seen in the last pic of my previous main post.

I measured the necessary length and came up with 32" (!), so I ordered a custom cable from BatteryCablesUSA.  I specified 6 AWG as its corresponding OD was the closest larger than the original, the closest length above 32" which was 33", and the same ends -- M8 and M6.

$12 and 2 days later I received exactly what I ordered.  Before installing I tried to compare resistance between the two cables but my multi-tester does not have sufficient resolution -- both cables registered a fluctuating 0.1-0.3 Ohm.   The nut on the starter post seemed to loosen and tighten OK the second time, and the starter post thread looks OK too.

 

 

 

 

Last issue is tidy attachment of the positive and negative cable ends to the battery.  I decided to run the cables vertically and use spacers to align the connectors properly.

I considered on each side a solid brass cylindrical spacer with 0.25" ID, 0.5" OD and 0.25" length, or a stack of 6 copper washers (resulting in the same overall dimensions) which I have on hand.  After some pondering and asking around I decided to go with the copper washer stacks. The assumption is that the copper washer interfaces cause a smaller conductivity loss vs. a solid copper spacer than the conductivity loss of brass vs. copper which is about 40%.  I don't know the actual losses in the washer interfaces so this solution may need to be revised based on experience.

 

 

 

 

Note that the terminals were connected for the photos one at a time...

 

 

Next post(s) will cover the plenum, throttle cable (and pedal stop), and brief observations about hose and wire routing...

 

 

Cheers!

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 8, 2023 by Yoram

[Yoram]

1 hour ago, IamScotticus said:

That bottle has been on every Cat since the 80s.

My ginormous washer bottle uses the same mount.  Those mounts were a pretty zinc cadmium that corroded.

 

Didn't know that!!  I thought these were introduced with direct injection engines...

Yes, my washer bottle which I have yet to install also has the exact same bracket.

Have you looked into having yours refinished, or ordering a replacement catch or washer bottle kit from Caterham, whichever is cheaper?

 

 

[MV8]

There isn't any relative motion between the positive cable and the battery body from the zip tie to the terminal, so there is no need to shim the cable away to isolate. The cable lug tabs are soft and can be bent easily without issue. I'm sure going from 8 to 6ga and half the length would show a significant reduction in voltage drop during cranking.

[Yoram]

5 hours ago, MV8 said:

There isn't any relative motion between the positive cable and the battery body from the zip tie to the terminal, so there is no need to shim the cable away to isolate. The cable lug tabs are soft and can be bent easily without issue. I'm sure going from 8 to 6ga and half the length would show a significant reduction in voltage drop during cranking.

You are obviously correct regarding no relative motion.  The intent of the shimming is to avoid bending the lugs and cables, but I will take a look at your suggestion.

As to the AWG ratings, I don't know the AWG of the original cable.  I specified the custom made one based on the OD of the original.  It worked out to be 6 AWG at the nearest (greater) OD.  6 AWG copper is normally rated for ~60 amps so I figured it should work.  Thanks!

[MV8]

Sizing should be for the intermittent starter load of around 180amps, so that length of 6ga is fine. Here is a handy chart I scanned and labelled. Don't remember the source.

[Yoram]

On 5/6/2023 at 2:16 PM, MV8 said:

Sizing should be for the intermittent starter load of around 180amps, so that length of 6ga is fine. Here is a handy chart I scanned and labelled. Don't remember the source.

 

So let's see if I understand the chart:  I pick the 6 AWG vertical line at the top and follow it down until I hit Curve 3.  I then go across to the left along the horizontal line intersecting at that point, and read 9 ft in the 14 Volt column.  Correct?

And from the above intersection point on Curve 3 I follow the nearest sloping line up and read 125 amps.  Which is less than ~180 amps but since my length is 4x less at <2 ft I'm good, eh?  And there may be some reserve to accommodate my copper washers?...

 

Thank you for this!

 

Edited May 8, 2023 by Yoram

[MV8]

Essentially, but also the duty cycle / intermittent time is less than two minutes. You'd most likely severely overheat a starter before a three foot 6ga cable would get hot enough to melt the insulation. This chart is for copper stranded versus aluminum or copper plated wire.  

[IamScotticus]

On 5/5/2023 at 11:13 PM, Yoram said:

Have you looked into having yours refinished, or ordering a replacement catch from Caterham, whichever is cheaper?

 

 

No, I might reuse one for a header tank overflow catch, but the other catches and reservoirs will be fancy racing stuff riveted to something.

Not a fan of where Cat chose to mount some of those bottles.  Might use one for a screen washer bottle with a manual push button jet pump.

Eliminate another wire circuit and switch.

[Yoram]

4 hours ago, IamScotticus said:

No, I might reuse one for a header tank overflow catch, but the other catches and reservoirs will be fancy racing stuff riveted to something.

Not a fan of where Cat chose to mount some of those bottles.  Might use one for a screen washer bottle with a manual push button jet pump.

Eliminate another wire circuit and switch.

 

Yeah.  I was initially wondering why not mount the catch bottle in the front on the RH side where there is no congestion of hoses, but Josh Robbins advised against it due to the heat from the exhaust pipes, even though they are quite further back.  I ended up sticking with the "official" location.

[Yoram]

Plenum and Throttle Cable

 

Plenum:  Cleaned head port faces with alcohol and microfiber cloth after removal of masking tape.  Need to make sure the thin gaskets remain fully seated in the plenum ports during installation.  All 5 bolts were quite easy to insert and tighten from the side using a 6" long 6H bit with a spherical tip, a UJ coupler and a drive extension.  The spherical hex tip held the bolts fine in horizontal orientation while navigating them into their holes.  Tightened by feel due to no torque specs.

Dipstick bracket shares the front upper bolt.

 

 

 

 

Shortened the upper radiator hose a bit at both ends to shift the rear kink forward to in front and inboard of the plenum breather hose and to ensure good clearance from driver footwell.

 

 

 

 

Rear elbow of upper radiator hose must be kept away from pedal box and from the engine loom.  Also note cushioning from plenum bolt and clutch hose.

The space between the engine and pedal box is very tight and very busy.

 

 

 

 

Take care to route wiring away from dipstick.

 

 

 

 

Plenum bolt installation and tightening tool.

 

 

 

Lesson:  Final length adjustments and tying down of the upper radiator and 5/16" expansion tank hoses need to await after plenum installation.

 

 

Throttle Cable:  Throttle cable installation was straightforward except the nylon bushing/insert for the pedal box hole needed some gentle Dremeling on the OD to fit in the receptacle in the pedal box.  The pic shows the bushing at an early phase of the Dremeling.  It actually required to take down the OD maybe ~1 mm along the entire length to the step to make it fit (apologies but I forgot to take a pic at the end). 

 

 

 

 

Throttle cable - plenum end:  Cable adjustment needs to ensure the pedal rest stop is engaged at the same time as the closed throttle stop, such that the throttle closes all the way and the pedal does not have slack motion before starting to open the throttle.  Adjustment is done at both ends. 

 

 

 

 

Throttle cable - pedal end (view from the right side):  The part of the pedal above its pivot is a vertical tube with a slot at the top for the cable; squeezing the sides of the slot together with pliers will keep the ball cable end contained.  The receptacle and the step of the Dremeled nylon bushing can be seen in the middle of the pic.

 

 

 

 

The next post(s) will discuss provisional throttle pedal travel stop and height adjustments and plumbing revisions necessitated by the plenum and throttle pedal travel stop.

 

 

Cheers!

 

 

Edited May 10, 2023 by Yoram

[Yoram]

Throttle Pedal Travel Stop (and plumbing...)

 

The throttle pedal travel stop has a long horizontal threaded rod which passes through the foot board and gets tightened with a jam nut from the engine bay.

Unfortunately I do not have a good pic of this rod from above before engine installation or plumbing, and after the view from above is completely obscured...

I'll go ahead and try to verbalize this whole thing as best as I can.

 

The following pic shows the stop (encircled) viewed from the footwell.

 

 

 

 

For engine installation I screwed the rod most of the way into the footwell so the it does not protrude and catch the bell housing on its way into the tunnel.

Left in that position it would block free pedal motion, so it needed to be screwed back out (towards the engine bay).  Final adjustment of the stop is supposed to take place after the engine has been run.  However, for now it is not needed (I will not be using much throttle initially) but still needs to be secured with the jam nut so it doesn't flop about.  I did that and verified that with the stop in its forward position the throttle can open all the way to its stop on the throttle body

 

With all the plumbing and wiring in place (even before installing back the plenum) the only access possible is from below.  Access from inside the footwell is of course worse and I precluded it.  You first screw the rod out with your fingers and once it seems well out you tighten the jam nut.  This part is a bit of a PITA, done with an open wench flipped back and forth, 1/6 of a turn at a time.

 

Throttle stop threaded rod and jam nut (encircled), zoom view straight up from underneath:

 

 

 

 

Now for the real issue:  Once the rod was in what seemed like the desired position, sticking out into the engine bay, I discovered that it was pressing against the secondary coolant hose connecting the water rail to the modine ("problem hose"), and against the 5/16" expansion tank hose, and causing them to also just about touch the steering shaft.  The throttle stop rod emerges from the foot board maybe 2" above the steering shaft, and the problem hose threads between them...

Here is a view from underneath.  The threaded rod is more visible here.  The problem hose is marked with an arrow.

 

 

 

 

To try to fix the problem:
a)  I ziptied together the two coolant hoses connecting to the modine to force the problem one away from the steering shaft (can be seen above).

b)  I ziptied the large expansion tank hose to the crankcase vent to help keep the problem one away from the steering shaft.
c)  I pulled out and completely re-routed the small (5/16") expansion tank hose higher up, just below the plenum, to de-congest the space around the steering shaft.  A bit tricky with the plenum in place but actually in my view should be done at this stage.  As a fringe benefit I was able to shorten the hose at the front, also by securing it to the rearmost chassis tubes which are free of electrical or brake line routing.

 

A couple more views of the plumbing from underneath for fun:

 

- The two curved secondary hoses connecting to the modine, and the "T" (thermostat / modine / expansion tank) on the right (actually towards the front of the car):

 

 

 

 

Midway along the engine and steering shaft - dipstick hose on left, the "T", and the upper radiator hose connection to the thermostat:

 

 

 

 

 

I am still not convinced that the problem hose will not touch either the throttle stop rod or the steering shaft (or both) in driving, so this remains a development task...

 

 

Two lessons from this step:

- Throttle pedal travel stop should be provisionally set to a forward position (protruding into engine bay) once engine is in place and before starting plumbing and wiring.  That way its threaded rod can stake its space and hoses and wires can be routed accordingly.
- 5/16" expansion tank hose should be routed last with the plenum in place to prevent interferences.

 

 

Next post will cover throttle pedal height adjustment and who knows what else (a lot of stuff is happening in the background; it's a matter of budgeting time between life, build and documentation).

 

 

Cheers!

 

 

[MV8]

I expect the WOT pedal stop, once adjusted, can be trimmed to protrude from the nut to no more than a half inch. When trimming, mark threads with a permanent marker, remove from the car, reinstall the nut all the way down, clamp the end to be cut off in a bench vice, then use a hacksaw to make the cut. Dress the cut end at a 45 deg angle to a bench grinder or flat file, then remove the nut which acts as a die to chase the threads. Run the nut back and forth, off and on by hand until it is easy to turn and then paint the cut end. Don't cross thread.

There should be a little slack adjusted with the cable end with the pedal against the UP stop; more if you want to set the height lower to match the other pedals with the ball of your foot. Too tight and it won't return to idle well.

 The WOT stop saves the cable from breaking after so many cycles. At pedal WOT, there should be minimal tension against the engine WOT throttle stop. As the cable wears in the sheath and stretches, the stop would be adjusted to protrude further from the firewall and/or the cable adjusted at the threaded ferrule on the engine. For adjusting the WOT rod, I suggest holding the engine throttle fully open with a helper, then lightly taking up pedal slack and adjusting the rod to touch, then jamb.