Safety

[Kitcat]

As a newbie I have a couple of concerns about a 7 clone as a fun car/track car/auto-x car.

 

 

 

One is mechanical reliability (see my "fiddlin" post). Another is safety. I test drove a classic Caterham last year (Is it pronounced Kate-erham or Cat-erham?). It was so narrow that my arm was actually outside of the car. What if you are rammed from the side by someone running a red light or by another track day car that gets out of shape?

 

 

 

Does the aluminum honeycomb provide meaningful protection? What about the slightly larger SV model, does it provide more crush space? Is it necessary to install a large SCCA type roll cage (Exoskeleton)? Are the non-Caterham options any safer (Birkin, Ultralite)?

[slngsht]

well, on the subject of personal safety, there are 2 factors:

 

 

 

1- is the chassis stiff enough

 

2- does it absorb energy

 

 

 

If you get T-boned in a 7, there is nothing to absorb the energy. Don't do that http://www.usa7s.com/aspnetforum/images/emoticons/biggrinjester.gif

 

 

 

I believe the frame is quite stiff though. I remember seeing pics of a Seven wreck quite badly, end up over the tire wall, etc..., and the passengers were fine, and the car looked remarkably intact. But that was with a full roll cage.

 

 

 

The size difference between an SV and a regular sized Caterham (Kate-erham) is noticable in how you fit in the car, but I don't think it makes a difference in how safe the car is. It's not THAT significant.

 

 

 

At least in one way the seven is safer than most other cars on the road. It stops, turns and changes direction very quickly, and can fit through holes other cars can't http://www.usa7s.com/aspnetforum/images/emoticons/biggrin5.gif. Lastly, other motorists hear me coming before they see me http://www.usa7s.com/aspnetforum/images/emoticons/biggrin5.gif. I've put about 6000 miles on this year, and have had two occasions where a cell phone swinging beltway bandit decided they needed my lane more than me. In a typical highway lane there is ALOT of room for avoidance in a Seven.

 

 

 

The way to look at this car is that it is not as safe as a regular car, but it is safer than a motorcycle. That's how I justify it for myself.

[xflow7]

Hi. Welcome.

 

 

 

Obviously Sevens lack alot of what are taken for granted as modern safety features (airbags, crush zones, etc). And the size of the car (as you've observed) leaves parts of you relatively exposed.

 

 

 

Thus there are some obvious vulnerabilities vs. "regular" cars (some of which you've hit on). Specifically:

 

 

 

-side impact

 

-roll-over protection (depending on the design of the roll-bar)

 

-vulnerability of the fuel tank in a heavy rear impact (especially if no spare tire is fitted)

 

 

 

Having said that, there are a substantial number of datapoints of accidents in Sevens by now and from what I've seen (anecdotally) the statistics aren't nearly as grim as you'd think. Yes, people have been seriously hurt/killed, but not that many that I've heard about and I've seen pics of the aftermath of some truly horrific looking accidents in which the occupants were not seriously hurt.

 

 

 

In addition to the reflexes of the car, it's important not to overlook another major safety feature which is the attentiveness of the driver. My experience is that in being so exposed my senses are particularly keen when driving it and I am acutely aware of other drivers and anticipating what they might do next. I try to be that way no matter what I'm driving, but it's at another level in the Seven. You also tend to intuitively keep yourself out of potential trouble spots like alongside trucks/SUV's that might not see you, etc. Obviously that doesn't eliminate every scenario (especially on the track), but it certainly helps avoid getting into trouble in the first place.

 

 

 

As for physical safety features, I expect the honeycomb can improve protection against blunt impacts markedly, but obviously can't protect where there's no bodywork.

 

 

 

I know Caterham offers side intrusion bars that are fitted to the race chassis and some have fitted to road cars as well. You can also fit a race-spec fuel cell which dramatically reduces the possibility of a fuel tank puncture. Some drivers also fit full roll-cages for road use, wear helmets, etc. So there are measures you can take to improve the exposedness situation if it makes you more comfortable.

 

 

 

Dave

[pksurveyor]

You will be a safer driver in the Seven because there is no cup holder for you to take a sip, the car is too noisy to use a cell phone, and there is no music for distraction because there is no radio, cd player or boom box. You will be concentrating on driving with two hands on the wheel.

[slomove]

..... You will be concentrating on driving with two hands on the wheel.......

 

 

 

Come on, depends on the passenger. Well, maybe not http://www.usa7s.com/aspnetforum/images/emoticons/biggrin5.gif

[slomove]

Agree with the opinions above.....

 

But I did get a fuel cell with bladder after a rear impact at MINIMAL speed that left my aluminum tank punctured by the spare wheel bracket hardware (and some paint damage on the offending car's bumper).

 

 

 

The honeycomb stuffing is just snake oil IMO. It is very good to make a composite sandwich core but for local impact it is almost useless. Try to stomp on a piece with your foot.

 

 

 

Gert

[slngsht]

Agree with the opinions above.....

 

But I did get a fuel cell with bladder after a rear impact at MINIMAL speed that left my aluminum tank punctured by the spare wheel bracket hardware (and some paint damage on the offending car's bumper).

 

 

 

The honeycomb stuffing is just snake oil IMO. It is very good to make a composite sandwich core but for local impact it is almost useless. Try to stomp on a piece with your foot.

 

 

 

Gert

 

 

 

Gert, One thing I like about the design of the Rotus is that the fuel tank is in front of the rear axle. Ofcourse mine was 26 years old, and developed a leak, and I replaced it with one in the rear for this driving season. This winter I'm going back to the original configuration. It's much safer, and opens up alot of luggage space.

[Al N.]

Here's my POV on safety...

 

 

 

In any severe accident, like getting T-boned or sliding into a tree or rolling over, no car short of a Volvo or Benz (especially the older ones) is going to really save your hide every time. And that includes the Audi TT that I run as a daily driver and my wife's Honda Pilot. It's just a fact. So you can't really worry about those anymore than you do in your daily driver.

 

 

 

It's the small incidents, like a mild rear ender or other "fender benders" that are worrying in a Seven. I drive with my kids in the car occasionally, so went the extra step for putting in an ATL fuel cell in my car. And down the road, I will probably go to the full cage that many racers run (although it will cut down on that true open air feeling a bit).

 

 

 

I'm with everyone else in regard to being more alert in the Seven as well as the "active" safety factor.

[Al N.]

Here's one of the UK's more famous Seveners. Click on the links "Rebuild Diary" and "SPA" to see his crash and the damage.

 

 

 

http://www.jackals-forge.com/lotus/

[Kitcat]

He had a roll cage which I am sure helped. It's not the damage to the car but the damage to the driver that concerns me. I enjoyed watching his video: I can see where the go-kart analogy comes from now (zero lean, instant turn-in, very collectible when the rear steps put, huge stopping power).

[slomove]

Here's my POV on safety...

 

 

 

.........And down the road, I will probably go to the full cage that many racers run (although it will cut down on that true open air feeling a bit)......

 

 

 

Try the "Roger Hamlin" style of low-front cage that is being been used by several West Coast racers. It does not make your Se7en look like a battle ship but seems to be pretty safe. I.e. solid side impact protection and e.g. Woody Harris was in relatively good shape after multiple flips and barrel rolls at Willow Springs. Ain't cheap, though...

 

 

 

Gert

[slngsht]

 

Try the "Roger Hamlin" style of low-front cage that is being been used by several West Coast racers. It does not make your Se7en look like a battle ship but seems to be pretty safe. I.e. solid side impact protection and e.g. Woody Harris was in relatively good shape after multiple flips and barrel rolls at Willow Springs. Ain't cheap, though...

 

 

 

Gert

 

 

 

Pics?

[slomove]

There are a lot of pics on > Team Birkinsport

 

 

 

including the results of > Woody Harris Accident which prove that the cage does its job well.

 

 

 

Gert

 

 

 

 

[Al N.]

Thanks for the links, Gert. And word on pricing and sourcing? Not to mention details of the installation process?

[slomove]

The fabricator is Roger Hamlin who has a shop at the Infineon Racetrack (Bay area). Excellent workmanship made to fit the individual car but IIRC the price is around $2000 or 3000. I suspect there are similarly capable builders on the east coast, too. I just wanted to give a hint of the idea. The cage is NASA approved.