Kitcat Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Westfield 11 builder: Any idea of your top speed? My Caterham's Kent engine dynos at a few HP less than your A-series and I top out at abt 105 mph in 4th (I have a 5 speed). Due to wind resistance I cant get beyond that if I shift to 5th. Theoretically, your aerodynamically superior car shd do much better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bball7754 Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Interesting thoughts/observations, but I'm wondering if it's not all a bit backward. As Martin stated in his post, the 11 was designed first (1956), followed by the Seven. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparecr Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Come on guys- The Seven was actually designed after the Eleven. The Seven is an Eleven without the body work or the frame members to support the body work. Otherwise they are the same car - frame wise. Lotus models numbers go 1,2,3,4,6,Clairmont Special,8,9,10,11,12,14,7,15,16,17... (Mark used 1-10, Eleven and Seven stand alone, everything else is Type) I believe the story Colin design the 7 over dinner on a napkin, but it wasn't from scratch. I see the conversation going what if we removed this and that from the Eleven... Either way welcome Westfield owner. Looks like all the officers have voted and you are in. We have an orginal Westfeild 11 owner in our local Lotus group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boxologist Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 ^^^^^^^^^^^^ no. Noooooooooo When i see a se7en i see a se7en. hen i see a Cobra, i see a Cobra. when i see an Atom, i see an Atom. When I see an 11, i see an 11. I may see a Lotus, i may see Chapman, i may see a collectibe, etc. I don't see a se7en. And i don't remember this site ever turning away anyone who genuinely interested in anything automotive. Even when the topic of Brammo jacking up prices of the North American Atoms arose a while back. We are too many small puddles to be compared to the larger tides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DB6 Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 ^^^^^^^^^^^^ no. Noooooooooo When i see a se7en i see a se7en. hen i see a Cobra, i see a Cobra. when i see an Atom, i see an Atom. When I see an 11, i see an 11. I may see a Lotus, i may see Chapman, i may see a collectibe, etc. I don't see a se7en. And i don't remember this site ever turning away anyone who genuinely interested in anything automotive. Even when the topic of Brammo jacking up prices of the North American Atoms arose a while back. We are too many small puddles to be compared to the larger tides. I don't wanna be a small puddle !:cry: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lotusman1951 Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 :cry: The 7 and 11 were designed at the same time. The way the numbers went was 1234568910 The seven was skipped or rather built and not made as a lotus. I belive it was the Clairborn Special The divided ford front axel from the 6 was used in the 8, 9 and 10, (I owned an 8 and several Allards that used this design). The lower wishbone and sway bared upper wishbone was part of the 7,11,12 and others, The truer Upper lower A arms with seperate sway bar was a common improvement in DSK and Dave Bean cars in the late 70s and used by Westfield in their early (1980ish), alloy 7s and 11s-Caterham did not do this until about 1988 (I also owned a Westfield 7 #7 built). The rear suspension of Series 1 7s and Clubman 11s was basically a 5 link system with panhard rod-not the POS A frame to the diff in the series 2 and 3 sevens, 7s and 11s could be odered with the deDion back in the day and Caterham went back to that historical connection in current cars. So the 7 and 11s are twins under the skin--The 11 rattles a bit more with all that bodywork and goes faster past 70mph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DB6 Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 :cry: The 7 and 11 were designed at the same time. The way the numbers went was 1234568910 The seven was skipped or rather built and not made as a lotus. I belive it was the Clairborn Special The divided ford front axel from the 6 was used in the 8, 9 and 10, (I owned an 8 and several Allards that used this design). The lower wishbone and sway bared upper wishbone was part of the 7,11,12 and others, The truer Upper lower A arms with seperate sway bar was a common improvement in DSK and Dave Bean cars in the late 70s and used by Westfield in their early (1980ish), alloy 7s and 11s-Caterham did not do this until about 1988 (I also owned a Westfield 7 #7 built). The rear suspension of Series 1 7s and Clubman 11s was basically a 5 link system with panhard rod-not the POS A frame to the diff in the series 2 and 3 sevens, 7s and 11s could be odered with the deDion back in the day and Caterham went back to that historical connection in current cars. So the 7 and 11s are twins under the skin--The 11 rattles a bit more with all that bodywork and goes faster past 70mph Here are a few good links : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotus_Cars http://www.lotuscars.com/AboutLotus.aspx http://www.lotuseleven.org/ As much as I like the car, and I have already welcomed him gladly and wished him luck with the project, I do not see how it can be classed as a 7, not trying to alienate or argue with anybody, it just seems obvious what it is and what it is not.So if a 7 is an 11 is a D Type an E Type then ?I would have to say no . . All this 711 talk reminds me of another question : If 711 stores never close why do they have locks on the front door ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lotusman1951 Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Cars are the sculpture of our time-cars as art-the development of a style an engineering. Just because something looks like a Lotus Seven --well there is more to it than that. The 11 has more to do with being a 7-its conception and execution than--most of the 7 like objects. More than most commuities that love cars, we have difficulties in appreciating this cars remarable history and its development, Chapmant whored out the car with the series 2&3&4, sold the "rights to" Caterham and Birkin and some in South America and was embarassed by its continued sales--although the money supported the company in pre Elan years. Despite that it remains a balls to the wall Supercar when developed within its original format It is in that shared original format that the 11 is its "twin" just dressed up a bit with more clothing. CARS AS ART. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westfield 11 Builder Posted February 26, 2009 Author Share Posted February 26, 2009 I was able to get into the shop today and measure the engine height. From the bottom of the Speedwell oil pan to the top of the roller rockers is 20.75 inches. You can add a bit more for the valve cover, mine is at the welder getting the filler cap and breather reattached after alteration to provide more clearance. Todays job was to rivet the stock access plate down by the drivers footwell permanently closed. I am using a Datsun 5-speed so I made a new one a bit lower and farther forward to suit the oil fill plug on the Datsun, this one will attach with 10-32 screws and floating nut plates. I was an aircraft tech for many years, last job was flight testing the C-17. I was on ship 1 from the day they laid the floor rails in the jig, through first flight (we launched her and night shift received her at Edwards) on to the end of the test program. I wasn't too happy with the quality of the metalwork on the Westfield kit so I removed all the panels and re-did things to my liking. While the sheetmetal was off I coated it all with Lizardskin heat and soundproofing leaving only the exterior pod in bare metal. The right pod id attached with rivnuts and screws now so I can have access to the extended range fuel tank I built. The stock tank is only 5 gallons and now with the addition I have just over 8 gallons. I lined the inside of the pod with Kevlar fabric using epoxy resin to help prevent punctures in case of an accident. The suspension is all nickel plated and clearcoated with POR 15. I also enclosed the belly of the car with sheetmetal and built a duct to take air from the inlet through the radiator and dump it out the belly. This should help prevent the bonnet from lifting at the rear edge at high speed, I hope. My latest hold-up has been an interference issue between the structure of the pedal box and the float bowl of the rear SU carb. I was using a 4 inch zero degree Maniflow inlet but it's just too long. APT, who built my engine shortened the intake by bolting my header and intake to an old head and trimming and welding. I just got home to find the box on my doorstep, so tomorrow I will bolt it up and hope it fits. If so the engine and tranny will come out so I can have access to finish bending up the brake lines. Last Jan. I was able to get the car registered in CA using the exemption, so now I don't have to worry about smog and other stuff like not having a windshield or wipers. This has been a long strange trip from my delivery back in Dec. of 2006: the first kit arrived damaged and it took 3 months for the shipper to settle and for me to get another chassis and body. Then I moved my shop from my side yard, under a canopy to a rented garage. Then my 85 year-old Mother began to show signs of increasing dementia. This required us to rent a place in Tucson and start spending a lot of time there, when we realised that we were hardly ever in CA I moved the shop again, this time to AZ. At least now I can work on it most every day, which I do, 2 to 3 hours if possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff7 Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 In a word: NO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitcat Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 Westfield 11: I am looking forward to pictures of what seems to be a labor of love (nickle plated suspension, etc.). I hang out sometimes at nobleforums.com. It is obviously dedicated to the 220 or so Nobles in the U.S., and now to the Noble's successor, Rossion. Anyhow, one of their big posters is SJ Morgan. SJ has for years owned a Westfield 11 that he built and the car is still one of his favorite's. That says something because he's a car mag writer and drives everything including his current test vehicle, a Rossion. As far as I can tell, he's a neighbor of yours in CA. So it mite be worth checking him out. He knows everything about cars (and isn't ashamed to admit it:)), and Westfield's in particular. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westfield 11 Builder Posted February 26, 2009 Author Share Posted February 26, 2009 I know Jan well and have driven his 11 several times as well as helping him in his garage. He was the one who guided me through the registration process too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitcat Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 Great, now you can form a Westfield 11 club! Any idea how many Westfield 11's, total, in the US? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spotcheck Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 Great, now you can form a Westfield 11 club! Any idea how many Westfield 11's, total, in the US? Ouch! Definitley not an LSIS, but drop-dead gorgeous IMO. FYI - thread got me thinking, so had some email traffic with Brian Anderson @ WCM, who has been working on their R11 (which I think will do for oversize 11 drivers what they did for oversize se7en drivers with their S2K). His answers to my questions: "The R11 will also be a nimble competitor, we are currently building the newly designed all round tube chassis for higher horse power drivetrains. Anywhere from 4 bangers to LS7s, IRS w / limited slip, and sold as Kits or Turn Key. We should have the bare chassis weight in the next two weeks, other components we have comparisons on. I am guessing with a four cylinder about 1400# and with a V8 about 1600#." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westfield 11 Builder Posted February 26, 2009 Author Share Posted February 26, 2009 Great, now you can form a Westfield 11 club! Any idea how many Westfield 11's, total, in the US? I don't know how many came over in the 1980's, but Tom the importer told me a week or so ago that he had sold 20 kits in the past 2 or 3 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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