athens7 Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 Replaced the Caterham unit with a Mocal gauge and line from BAT Inc. in Florida. I didn't include a low pressure switch and light because I wanted a minimum number of connections between the block and the gauge (fewer leakage possibilities) and, since I didn't have one before, I didn't feel the loss. The biggest challenge was figuring out the thread on the connections. I didn't know anything about the various types of connections (1/8 BSP, M10 X 1, 1/8 NPT, -3 AN, 3/8 X 24-all basically the same!); I guess I should have asked here first! Any way, the connections on my car are 1/8 BSP (concave inner flange on male thread, nipple on inside of female thread). Total parts cost $96.xx including shipping, plus any labor if you pay someone to do it. The gauge is of much higher quality than the stock (garbage) Caterham gauge, and the oil pressure sender (much worse than garbage) is gone. I tested the Mocal gauge before installation and found it to be accurate. It sure is nice to know what my oil pressure REALLY is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
athens7 Posted July 10, 2009 Author Share Posted July 10, 2009 A couple more pictures (before and after). The last picture is of the place where the sender used to be, at the frame where the right front suspension comes in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowflyer Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 Two quick comments, if you don't mind... First, good choice in using the steel braided, teflon hose. Second, be really careful where that hose comes in contact with other bits and pieces, as it will saw right through anything it touches. From your photos it looks like you zip tied it to a rubber hose, and what looks like your battery cable. You may want to cut and slip some pieces of rubber hose over the braided stuff, zip tie them in place, then zip tie the whole deal back to a support. I have seen this stuff cut into steel frame tubes on formula cars if there's any movement at all. Ken Edney Chandler, AZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Croc Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 Hi Brad Great minds think alike! I got my Mocal delivery on Monday. I went with the dual mechanical oil presssure/oil temp gauge and the necessary connectors/ steel braided hose. I like the Mocal look since it matches the existing gauges well. Currently in the process of working through an installation so your pics are very useful. Now that you have finished - what oil pressure is your engine showing? I would not mind a point of reference on what to expect from my SVT engine when the gauge is hooked up. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
athens7 Posted July 10, 2009 Author Share Posted July 10, 2009 Ken- Thanks for the input. Actually, the picture where the stainless line is zip tied to the ground strap is from the original electrical set up, with the line going forward to the sending unit. This was done by the assembling dealer. Another good reason for the change! I will re-check the line routing to make sure there are no problems-in-waiting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pksurveyor Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 The setup looks fantastic. You are right about the garbage Caterham oil pressure gauge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
athens7 Posted July 10, 2009 Author Share Posted July 10, 2009 (edited) I haven't had much time to drive the car since the install, but so far: Cold start 75 PSI 4000 RPM at 60 degrees Celsius 80-82 PSI Warm idle 40 PSI 4000 RPM at 80 degrees Celsius 75-78 PSI I have a 180 degree thermostat in the car, not the stock 195 degree unit, so oil pressure/temperature might be a bit different in a car with the stock thermostat in harder driving environments. I will be interested to see my readings during my next autocross. I would expect them to be a bit lower at the higher temperatures generated during that type of use. I also haven't gone for a long (50 miles plus) drive on a Georgia summer day (90 plus degrees), so we'll see what the readings are then. My motor was a crate (not used) engine and has 7900 miles on it now. Edited July 10, 2009 by athens7 senility Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitcat Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 Nice. It's now on my list of to-do's. What abt a replacement for the crap stock Caterham tach/speedo??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
athens7 Posted July 10, 2009 Author Share Posted July 10, 2009 Stack makes some very nice speedometers and tachometers that would fit, as well as all the necessary other gauges, including the oil pressure gauge (electrical and mechanical). The mechanical oil pressure gauge was about $10 more than the Mocal unit, but the fellas on Blatchat overwhelmingly use the Mocal gauge, so that was my choice. I did look at Stack's Pro-control electrical oil pressure gauge with peak display and high and low pressure alarms with built in warning lights, but at $240 plus an unknown amount of wire harness splicing to access power... I suppose it would be nice to have a matched set of gauges if I had to replace more of the ones I have, so I would probably go with Stack and use their OPG instead of the Mocal unit. What about having a good gauge service shop like Palo Alto Speedometer rebuild the existing speedo or tach with better components? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Croc Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 Thanks Brad. I will post my oil pressure stats up here when I get everything back together 1-2 weeks from now. I was once told that Mocal make the standard Caterham gauges - albeit to a lower price than their regular gauge product line. Not sure how true that is? Kitcat - what is the issue with the Caterham speedo/tach? Mine is just ok but it can be hard to read at times when driving (plus fogs up occasionally). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitcat Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 Speedo isn't too bad, just reads 5 mph fast. More important is the tach. At track days the needle starts bouncing and doesn't stop. So it is useless as a means of doing much more than helping estimate RPM. On the track, I mostly shift at the first sign of valve float/power loss. On the street, it's fine, nice easy shifts don't bother it. But out on the track where I am beating on the car, it's mostly MIA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDingo8MyBaby Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 Speedo isn't too bad, just reads 5 mph fast. More important is the tach. At track days the needle starts bouncing and doesn't stop. So it is useless as a means of doing much more than helping estimate RPM. On the track, I mostly shift at the first sign of valve float/power loss. On the street, it's fine, nice easy shifts don't bother it. But out on the track where I am beating on the car, it's mostly MIA. Check your wire from the negative coil terminal to the RPM gauge. I agree with low flyer. That stuff is like a hacksaw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
athens7 Posted July 11, 2009 Author Share Posted July 11, 2009 Mike, the Caterham oil pressure gauge, and likely the sender, is made by Caerbont Automotive, not Mocal, according to the label on the gauge housing. I would assume all the other gauges are similarly sourced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Croc Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 My mechnical oil pressure gauge is up and running now with no leaks. As a comparison to Brad's Zetec SVT my oil pressure stats are: Cold start 75 PSI 4000 RPM at 60 degrees Celsius 80 PSI Warm idle 35 PSI 4000 RPM at 80 degrees Celsius 70 PSI I have the stock 195 degree F unit in what is a perfectly stock crate (brand new not used) SVT Zetec motor with 5900 miles on the clock. On a long cruise on a 90 degree summer day I find the oil pressure drops to about 60-70 PSI (depending on the revs). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
athens7 Posted August 22, 2009 Author Share Posted August 22, 2009 That's pretty close to my numbers, especially since my stock temperature gauge reads a little low. Maybe there is some truth to that whole assembly line/quality control/modern technology thingy (at least where engines are concerned!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slomove Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 On my older ZX1 Contour engine with totally different oil pump the numbers are also pretty similar. Maybe hot idle and hot running (@80-90 degrees C) are a tad lower with 20-30 and 60 psi respectively. FWIW due to the Laminova heat exchanger the water and oil temperatures on the road are almost the same. I had replaced the stock Birkin/VDO mechanical pressure gage with a VDO electrical sender/gage and after 3 years went back to mechanical like other folks mentioned. The electrical gage reading was a crapshot all them time, very non-linear and battery voltage dependent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Croc Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 (edited) Gert - It is interesting that you say the oil and water temperature is the same. I installed the mocal oil temp gauge at the same time as the mechnical oil pressure gauge. Reads about the same as water when pootling around town, back roads, slowly, but becomes very inconsistent when I get on an interstate and boot up to 70mph. Readings go from 80C and spike upwards before settling and then spiking up and down from then. I even had the gauge clocked at one point - 140C. The sender unit is one of the sealed capiliary action type - very reliable - I have used them in past cars before without an issue. On Friday I went back over the line and made sure it was not touching anything that could transmit heat. Now I know a mechanical temp gauge should not spike or rapidly change temp - it should be a slow or measured progression - up or down. Engine is fine per water temp/oil pressure so I do not believe the readings Trying to diagnose this, I think it comes down to one or more of the following: - faulty gauge - vibrations of the car/road quality (on NJ's finest rubbish quality roads) - engine thrash/sender unit becoming momentarily uncovered by the oil (because of vibrations/lack of road quality) Any thoughts of wisdom? Edited August 23, 2009 by Croc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slomove Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 (edited) Yes, that is strange...I still have the VDO electrical temp sender/gages. They are not as bad as the electrical pressure devices and I calibrated them to check their reading a while ago. The water temperature sender sits in the Raceline water rail and for the oil temp sender I drilled a hole in the front sump plug for the suction tube strainer (also Raceline sump). That way there is always guaranteed immersion and heat transfer in the oil stream. I can switch between both senders with a pushbutton. In town and on the highway temperatures are identical. Freeway around 75mph will see the oil temperature maybe 10 degrees C higher than water and at the end of a track session the oil may go up to 125 degree C. Overall the Laminova device seems to do a good job, although I probably should have bought the next bigger size. Gert Edited August 23, 2009 by slomove Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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