Which of these used cars would u buy? Super Stalker/ Ultralite S2k

[Bster13]

I am considering two used Seven replicas. One is a Brunton Super Stalker with a "locker" differential, registered as a 1962 Lotus. The other is registered as a 2006 WCM Ultralite S2k with WRX limited slip diff.

 

This is what I plan to do with my Seven replica and questions/considerations i have on my mind:

 

- Take a week long trip at least once a year, and plenty of long wknds on backroads. I used to play in the Smokey Mountains a lot on my touring bike and wish to return.

 

- Occasional trackday/HPDE. I know both cars will spank the average car on the track with a decent driver, but given the same driver, which car is going to put in a faster lap time? I know it is common for the Stalkers to go from 15 (or 16?) in wheels to 13in slicks on the track. Is it common to do that for the WCM Ultralite S2k as well?

 

WCM Ultralite S2k:

Horsepower 240 @ 8300 rpm

Torque 153 lb-ft @ 7500 rpm

1240 lbs

 

Brunton Super Stalker:

250hp @ 5200 rpm

290tq @ 3600 rpm

1550 lbs

 

More torque w/ the Stalker, but less weight with the WCM. Which wins out in a straight line?

 

The differentials are a little bit confusing:

 

WCM Ultralite S2k- From the WCM website: "Subaru WRX with Limites Slip centers, hubs and axles. 10 bars IRS differential."

Brunton Super Stalker- From the owner: "Detroit TrueTrac differential."

 

From what I can research, the TrueTrac is a "locker" differential, not a true LSD (?). From my reading, the locker only works going straight. You really want an LSD for track days. 1-way, accel. 1.5 - accel, some decel. 2-way - both.

 

- Weather protection. The car does not need to protect me from the elements necessarily. I'm used to wearing rain gear and I plan on wearing a helmet/ear plugs. But.. the cars needs to just run well in the rain, have drain holes in the floor, and have (vinyl?) seats, dash and cockpit that will be up to the task.

 

- Tank range over 250 miles while cruising would be nice. The Stalker runs with 3.42 gears and the WCM S2k Ultralite runs with 4.44 rear end. Both have 10gal tanks.

 

- Cockpit room. I recently sat in a local Stalker. My GF was fine in the passenger seat, but at 5-10, 190lbs, my legs were cramped. The owner was 5-7, 5-8, so I'm betting the foot pedals have some room to move back. I keep hearing of all these big guys fitting in Stalkers just fine...hrmmm. Would anyone say the WCM Ultralite S2k is bigger/smaller in leg room?

 

- Luggage. This is something neither car has I've come to find. I want to take a passenger on my trips. I like this design: http://home.earthlink.net/~slomove/id12.html, but the other option is the car on the left (It's a stalker, don't know who owns it, but I screen-captured it from a video I saw):

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b50/bster13/Super_Stalker_Givi1.jpg

 

- Reliability. My gut gives the reliability factor to the WCM Utralite S2k's drivetrain, but if the super-charged GM engine in the Super Stalker goes, they are cheap to replace. The Super Stalker look cheaper to replace parts if need be overall, but I kinda think the engine will be stout/reliable too. The Super Stalker is easier to get more power out of as it is already forced induction (not likely going to want more).

 

- Community. The Brunton owners have a private forum, but at least they have one. They also have the yearly get-together down in the Smokeys called the "Ambush." I'm not aware of a user community w/ the WCM owners or get-togethers. Anyone know of any? I always appreciated the riding community.

 

Yes, I know it's a lot of thoughts in one post, but I don't want to get this wrong. I miss motorcycling a ton.. the sites I saw, the people I met etc., and this is my way to get it back. Cheers!

Edited June 7, 2010 by Bster13

[twnpipe]

One makes me think of a Buell1125R, , the other is likely more of an Aprillia. Both will do the job, it will come down to what your gut says.

[Bster13]

It's very hard evaluating cars from such a distance away. Simple things like "do I fit in it?" come to mind very quickly. But hearing the base Stalker V6 this Saturday....yeah Buell comes to mind. Definitely. hehe.

[GBOLT]

I just completed a super stalker build, and could not be happier. The car is fantastic, and the guys in the forum have been very helpful. I selected the car because I liked the looks, it handled beautifully, and I liked the owners I met.

 

I am about slightly bigger than your size, and fit very comfortably in the car. The pedals can easily be adjusted or moved back.

 

Most guys use a ls rear end.

 

The car in the photo has an ls6 v8, and is one of the quickest street cars I have ever seen. It is owed by a really nice guy, how has been very helpful to me in my build. Several v8 cars have been completed recently.

 

Your decision is really going to be a personnel choice. I have been very happy with mine.

[WestTexasS2K]

Both cars are very capable for your uses. I think given a very good driver the SS will be slightly faster. That being said I have turned laps 4 sec faster with a na Ultralite. Setup and driver is major diffrence. I would consider the SS like a Four stroke motorcyle and the Ultralite a two stroke you have rev it harder and change gears a little more. Ultrlite has much bigger trunk almost twice the size of Stalker. That could come in handy while touring. I think both cars will fit you size wise Ultralite has adjustable pedals that moves about six inches.

[Bster13]

GBOLT, good to know you fit.

 

WestTexasS2k - your lap times 4 sec with your WCM vs. a Stalker? I guess it may come down to the driver in the end. Great point about the trucnk. Might u have a pic? I've seen the inside of the Stalker's trunk, not much there at all. I'd love to see the rear of a WCM S2k for comparison. Maybe not enough space to go away for a week, but perhaps for a day's outing.

[snookwheel]

Hi Bryce, Got your message on Utube.

 

As you know, I own a Super Stalker. My completely biased opinion is that you should go for the Stalker! I am a hair under 6' and fit fine.

 

The amazing thing about the Stalker is the huge amount of torque. I usually launch in second, get into third and drive it from there. The torque kicks in early and pulls HARD up to red-line. You don't have to be at 5-6K RPM for the power. Both are good cars. I recommend test driving an S2000. You have to be well into the rpm range to get the power to roll on. You do not have to work the Stalker engine as hard. In my opinion, the Stalker has a much more usable power band. Parts are cheap and readily available.

 

 

We did add power steering because with the 10" wide race slicks we use when autocrossing, my wife had a difficult time in the tight stuff. (OK... I like it too). Either car will be a blast. The looks of the Stalker, the readily available power and cheap parts sold me. I have not regretted my decision.

 

The bottom line is you would have a great time with both. Try to get a ride in each and go with what works for you.

 

Scott

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v640/snookwheel/200905011455401.jpg

 

Scott

[Mondo]

I guess it's a good sign that everyone seems pretty happy with the cars they have. I like that they're a bit larger than the Cats...though tiny compared to just about everything else;) Your not rubbing shoulders.

 

As far as S2K fit; 6ft 1, 34 waist and my seat is too wide (passenger seat is perfect)... the pedals have lots of adjustment back & forth. The steering wheel is set kind of low and I've seen some guys with really small steering wheels for more thigh clearance. For long distance driving you'd definately need some more padding if the car comes with standard Ultralite seats.

 

You'll probably have to stack some luggage on top of the rear section... like this site

has http://www.softbitsforsevens.co.uk/

 

Earplugs with Ipod hook ups would be nice to have.

 

Loren has done quite a bit of traveling/racing in a S2K so I know it can be done.

 

There is a site on Yahoo for Ultralite owners, lots of fixes/upgrades

 

Here's a pic of my trunk... though I've seen the tank in various configurations; taking up all the bottom, the front half etc...

Edited June 7, 2010 by Mondo

[Bster13]

Thanks very much for the softbits link Mondo, never seen that before. Perhaps I can use some of those ideas to handcraft some stuff.

 

Unfortunately the pic of your trunk did not come through. Could you post a link perhaps?

 

And does "Loren" have a screen name or a way I could contact him/her? thx.

[Mondo]

Sorry, Loren is "WestTexasS2K" .... he's done the One Lap Across America a couple times in the S2K and has built several of them.

 

For some reason the pics aren't attaching... you can click on my name and view my gallery. I put the trunk pic in there.

[Bster13]

Let me try:

 

http://www.usa7s.net/vb/picture.php?albumid=2&pictureid=94

 

Is there a cover for that in case it rained to protect your items? Thanks again!

[Mondo]

Yeah, there's a mini tonneau cover. I think the last couple pics in the album show it.

[WestTexasS2K]

Some of the trucks aren't enclosed but a day with some aluminum and caulking can make a good size rear trunk. There is enough room for 4 bags or two small suit cases. If you plan to drive more than 3-400 miles a day I would suggest some additional padding for the seat bottom and some extra foam for the lnar area. I just ordered a set of pneumatic lumbar pumps much like blood pressure cuff that I will put in my new car. They simple and light weight. Use motorcycle rain gear and possibly an outlet for electric vest you will be set for most weather. I never had any problems running in the rain as far as the car goes. Tires in the rain make huge diffrence. Three sets that I used hydro planned around 55. Michelin PS2 were as good in the wet as dry and they were good for track day fun.

 

Side note the Ultralite will accept 15x10 wheel for racing slicks but the brakes are to large for 13. You can change to smaller brakes but wouldn't bother unless you competively race.

Also rennet not all cars are built equally. Some are done very well others are not. So which ever make you select I would make the trip to see in person and drive before you pay.

[Bster13]

@Mondo: The only pic I see showing the inside the trunk is this one:

[/url]http://usa7s.net/vb/album.php?albumid=2&pictureid=94

 

I don't see any other unfortunately.

 

@WestTexasS2k

There is enough room for 4 bags or two small suit cases.

That's insane compared to the Stalker I saw in person. There is no storage space on the Stalker in the trunk that I can see. I'd really like some other pics and have been scouring Google Image results with no luck.

 

As for all out performance between the two cars I've been able to find only two sites that list any accomplishments at the Run and Gun events where they go head to head:

 

http://www.angelfire.com/biz6/stalkerv6/

 

and

 

http://www.automobilsport.com/%20wcm-best-ultralite-classic-performance-cars-brian-anderson-world-class-motorsports-heritage-dodge-viper-mustangs-automobilsport---6937.html

 

Very difficult to make heads or tails of it and the Run and Gun website (http://www.runngun.net/) doesn't tell you what car won, just the owner. Oh well. :boxing:

[Proj217]

Buy this amazing car Bster. Buy it and take me for a ride in it.

 

Yes.

[WestTexasS2K]

I will take a picture of my chassis at the house when it get back on thurday so you can see the trunk area.

I will have to look up some times from a few years ago. The last 2 times we were there we had forced induction cars. My fastest na time was 1.09 I was running prepared class which is DoT tire. Dennis was running 1.08 or high 1.07 John meyers was running 1.06 in his SS both on 13 race slicks. I was faster than all the other Stalkers that year I think there were 4 or 5 from what I remember. This was several years ago but I will try and find exact times. If any of the other stalkers guys here know chime in. Like I said the SS is very fast with good drivers as is the Ultralite.

P.S I am not that good a driver!

 

At motorsports ranch at a hpde event I had instructor with me for a few days. I talked him into driving one session and letting me ride he beat my fastest time by 2 sec and he was having problems getting use to my pedal layout he kept hitting brake and gas together.

[powderbrake]

Here is a couple pics of my Ultralite trunk. My wife and I have taken 3 day trips in it , with room for bags, camers, and the tonneau that covers the cockpit. I have no top or side curtains.

I have an earlier model from WCM, which has the custom fitted 13 gallon tank , which is wedge shaped and fits high in the trunk area. This gives lots of room for stuff in the trunk. Some cars have a larger , more square tank, that is lower. Check out the one you want to buy to see the trunk room.

 

In the automobilsport link above, mine is the last yellow S2k, with the red a arms and spindles and seats.

 

The runngun data is confusing and somewhat incoherent, but the lap times are probably right. Do not compare the lap times of a standard, street driven Stalker or Ultralite with those of Loren, Kevin, Chuck Spera or Dennis Brunton or John Meyers. Those guys are running 1.0XX times and are experienced, REALLY GREAT drivers in super hot, and well setup cars with slicks, whereas I ran my stock Ultralite in the Street Class ( 200 wear rated tires) and turned in the 1.15 to 1.18 range, and somehow did manage to 8 or 9 trophies in 4 years.

 

From your description of what you want to do with a car, either car is sufficient in "stock" form, to do everything you want. For travelling , you need to consider the storage capacity, both inside and outside. For track days will find blowing some Cobras and other cars into the weeds great fun, but a well tuned seven (of any type) with a good driver may blow by you.... it all depends on the tires, the set-up, and the skill level.

 

Good luck, you can't go wrong with either choice.

[Mondo]

I like that set up!

[jimrankin]

That almost makes me want to pull that big square fuel cell out of the center of my trunk and fab a tank like that one. Did you find a way to foam the inside? That is really a great way of expanding the cars use from just shorter jaunts to actually travelling without everything strapped to the roll bar. Nice job!

[Silk]

Jeff Duncan (Ultralite) and I (Super Stalker) go at it regularly at a highly competitive autocross at the Cumberland MD airport. This event regularly attracts people that are only interested in FTD rather than class wins. Last weekend’s event was fairly typical – Jeff beat me on Saturday and I edged him on Sunday. And we were both among the fastest in a very fast field of cars. Driven well, either of these cars is extremely capable, though the characteristics are different as noted in earlier posts. Here are links to the Sat. & Sun. results:

 

http://www.nationalroadrally.com/pdf/2010/historics/Historics_6_5_10_raw.pdf

 

http://www.nationalroadrally.com/pdf/2010/historics/historics_6_6_10_raw.pdf

 

PS - And Mazda, how come we haven't seen you up in Cumberland with your spanky new hood?????