Authentic Lotus 7

[lotusman1951]

How would you respond to a situation wherein you agreed to buy a Lotus Seven-pre 1971 and learned that the car offered was one of several that shared that same serial number as revealed by the historic lotus register?

 

Would you prefer to hear this dispute before or after the sale?

 

Would the seller, if they were aware of this information, be obligated to disclose?

[cs3tcr]

I would want to hear about it before the sale. It would affect the sale price dramatically or even give you a chance to pass on the sale. And i would think that the seller should disclose this information, he is after all selling a dubious car.

 

I would try to find as much as i could about the car, check all the numbers stamped in the frame, and have a lengthy discussion with the register to see if one of the many claiming to be the actual car, is indeed the actual car.

[TheDingo8MyBaby]

You can get a sense of the answer here:

 

http://usa7s.com/vb/showthread.php?t=8499

 

Unless it has history near the date of manufacture, I'm afraid authenticity and value will come into question.

[Kitcat]

A buyer shd expect the seller to honestly divulge title issues. Sounds like they didn't and that this isnt a hypothetical question?

 

Even if it was bought "as is" that mite not protect the seller who knowingly hid issues of questionable provenance.

 

Or, they mite say they sold the ''real'' Lotus, the others are the imposters. And, that any issues of serial #'s that were discovered post-sale cld just as easily been discovered pre-sale on the Lotus registry, so it's on the buyer.

 

Mite be worth chatting w/a local lawyer.

 

Mite be worth offering to make the seller's ID public. This is a small community. A regular seller of Lotus items shd be concerned with that type of publicity.

 

There was a very nice "authentic" Lotus 7 referenced for sale here a while back (I think via a link, not directly), where the seller was up front abt issues of authenticity, serial # and therefore discounted price accordingly. THat's the way to do it.

Edited July 25, 2013 by Kitcat

[DeanG]

I would certainly want to to hear about the originality of a car and possible clones before I plunk down my $$$.

[lotusman1951]

The car offered is currently represented and being sold in a common medium,I bid on it. When I suggested to the owner and dealer that the HLR revealed that the car was in dispute relative to lack of frame number and contested Lotus Data plate number, they used the words slander and libel, and said that they would convey this dispute

information to the "new owner", that they knew about the dispute but were confident that they had the real car-with a history that extended back 25 years of the cars 50plus years of being.

 

Over 40 years, i have owned perhaps 15 lotus and lotus inspired cars. This particular car is cute and clean, I am not a lotus "know it all" I made an offer on the car based on its disputed number. real money but less than an undisputed car.

 

Like Bugattis and AC Cobras, and Racing Jaguars even Lotus 23s and 11s-there were less built than offered for sale at present.

 

I will note that I have not disclosed the dealer, owner or serial number of this particular car. I do not want to hear from any lawyer.

 

The sellers still have the opportunity to disclose this information to potential buyers-but then again-a dispute will make the car worth less than an undisputed car, buyer beware!

 

Don't buy a Manx dune buggy-unless it's a Meyers Manx. Or a Westfield 11 represented as a Lotus 11, or whatever-

[Kitcat]

Ya know, truth is an absolute defense against allegations of libel (written) and slander (verbal). Of course there is no defense against spending countless $ defending a meritless lawsuit against you for writting or uttering the truth(:.

 

In any event, happy to hear you are not stuck w/a car of questionable authenticity.

[Klasik-69]

The car offered is currently represented and being sold in a common medium,I bid on it. When I suggested to the owner and dealer that the HLR revealed that the car was in dispute relative to lack of frame number and contested Lotus Data plate number, they used the words slander and libel, and said that they would convey this dispute

information to the "new owner", that they knew about the dispute but were confident that they had the real car-with a history that extended back 25 years of the cars 50plus years of being.

 

Over 40 years, i have owned perhaps 15 lotus and lotus inspired cars. This particular car is cute and clean, I am not a lotus "know it all" I made an offer on the car based on its disputed number. real money but less than an undisputed car.

 

Like Bugattis and AC Cobras, and Racing Jaguars even Lotus 23s and 11s-there were less built than offered for sale at present.

 

I will note that I have not disclosed the dealer, owner or serial number of this particular car. I do not want to hear from any lawyer.

 

The sellers still have the opportunity to disclose this information to potential buyers-but then again-a dispute will make the car worth less than an undisputed car, buyer beware!

 

Don't buy a Manx dune buggy-unless it's a Meyers Manx. Or a Westfield 11 represented as a Lotus 11, or whatever-

 

You are right about the number of cars offered for sale vs. the quantity originally built. A good example is the 1970 Chevelle SS454 with either the LS5 or LS6 engine. Most of the time, the sellers get away with it. Usually buyers are so thrilled with the appearance of the car their emotions get in the way of their common sense. The thrill dies down pretty quickly when they find out they bought a fake or clone. As they say, buyer beware.

 

However, as Kitcat stated, you can spend a fortune defending yourself from a slander or defamation of character law suit that is as valid as the car they were trying to pawn off. The question is: Do you feel morally obligated to blow the whistle on the charlatans or do you keep quiet to avoid the law suit ? I favor the former but the latter is unfortunately the one that prevails.....unless you're an attorney and can defend yourself adequately.

 

Having said that, you can still warn others without naming names and pointing fingers, yet still make it clear who is trying to pull the scam.