Trailers from the European prespective

[bigdog]

I have been in the research phase of shopping for a trailer & tow vehicle. Been rather interesting so far. For those that haven't seen my profile. I'm an American living in Europe.

 

The search for a trailer & tow vehicle for my 7 has shown me how utterly brainwashed we Americans have become to the auto companies relentless pursuit to sell us way more vehicle than we need.

 

Here in Europe you will not see trucks at the European Chevy, Ford dealers. Most American, Japanese, European SUV's are based on an existing CAR chassis, And not truck chassis' So why the need for a big truck? If one has a truly BIG load to haul then yes a truck makes sense. But the biggest reason the makers push the SUV's/ Trucks for towing in America is that SUV's/ Trucks are more profitable than cars. Along with the fact that a lot of folks will also buy a car for normal use and then a gigantor truck to haul the jet ski's. So why on earth would any manufacture suggest anything other than you HAVE to go big to tow in the American market.

 

Here in Europe for instance. VW Shows in the factory specs of a Passat & Golf TDI six speed manual a tow rating of 3500Lbs. Yet in America. VW says nein You vill buy a Tiguan Or Toureg. Honda Europe say 4400Lbs for the CRV. Honda USA says 1500Lbs for the CRV. You must buy a pilot.

 

Even this small car forum has for the most part stuck to the mindset that I should by a big trailer "just in case"

 

Some links to entertain you.

 

[/url]http://www.curbsideclassic.com/auto-biography/the-great-american-anti-towing-conspiracy/

 

http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-reviews/first-drives/2014-volkswagen-golf

 

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2010/01/whats-wrong-with-this-picture-the-great-american-towing-conspiracy-lives-edition/

 

CC S04E06 - TOW CAR REVIEW Volkswagen Golf 2.0 TDI - YouTube

[bball7754]

Here is a link to a thread on my trailer. FWIW, I tow it with a Volvo XC60.

 

http://usa7s.com/vb/showthread.php?t=6535

 

Steve

[turboeric]

Interesting. I've recently been on the same voyage of discovery here in Canada. We were looking for a small travel trailer (and I mean small: 13 feet, 950 lb dry). We heard all sorts of dire warnings about towing it with our Impreza - instant fiery death destroying everything for miles around would certainly ensue. Equipped with trailer brakes and a proportional controller, it worked completely fine. And yes, we live in the mountains. Our first trip was towing over the Rockies.

 

I also noticed the discrepancies between UK tow ratings and the Nort American ones. In NA, you need a dreadnought class vehicle to tow a utility trailer, apparently.

[bigdog]

Just today on the way back from the Wurzburg Christmas market. I saw an older C 220 class diesel pulling a double horse trailer. I think one big difference is that there seems to be a hold over from yester years that one must have max tongue weight to prevent the trailer from bouncing off the ball. I remember hearing that when I was a young lad. In the UK, EU. The tongue weights are kept at 75Kg max, 50Kg is normal. The EU trailers tend to be more balanced. I.E. the axles are fairly centered under the load.

 

As I at one time in my life owned a trucking company. I have over 1,000,000 miles pulling doubles across Sd, Wy at night. Have a fair bit of trailering under my belt. So lets see 80,000 gross and my truck was 18,000. In the recreational world I should be dead and had taken SD, and WY with me.

 

here is the ultimate.

[/url]http://www.examiner.com/article/porsche-911-turbo-caught-towing-caravan-on-french-motorway

[slomove]

I was used the the German way of trailering. In the old days (i.r. 80's) we towed a 16 ft catamaran on a light weight trailer behind a tiny 205 Peugeot Diesel with something like 59 hp 1100 miles across several Alps passes to southern Croatia for vacation. Offical allowed towing speed was and still is 80 kmh or 50 mph but it went easily 70 mph and still got better than 30 mpg towing. No-frills small car but it had heating and a radio and kind of fun to drive.

 

Back then you could tow up to half of the GVW without and full GVW with trailer brakes. I believe nowadays it is more car specific.

 

On the other hand....a beefier tow car has definite advantages. My niece and family towed a large camping trailer last year behind an Opel Omega. They had an exemption tag (which does not seem to be difficult to get) allowing them to go 100kmh. Nevertheless, on a rainy night drive they ended up fishtailing with a 180-degree spin on the Autobahn facing oncoming traffic. It ended up without real accident but could have been a disaster. Not sure though if they maybe even went beyond the 100kmh.

[bigdog]

I was used the the German way of trailering. In the old days (i.r. 80's) we towed a 16 ft catamaran on a light weight trailer behind a tiny 205 Peugeot Diesel with something like 59 hp 1100 miles across several Alps passes to southern Croatia for vacation. Offical allowed towing speed was and still is 80 kmh or 50 mph but it went easily 70 mph and still got better than 30 mpg towing. No-frills small car but it had heating and a radio and kind of fun to drive.

 

Back then you could tow up to half of the GVW without and full GVW with trailer brakes. I believe nowadays it is more car specific.

 

On the other hand....a beefier tow car has definite advantages. My niece and family towed a large camping trailer last year behind an Opel Omega. They had an exemption tag (which does not seem to be difficult to get) allowing them to go 100kmh. Nevertheless, on a rainy night drive they ended up fishtailing with a 180-degree spin on the Autobahn facing oncoming traffic. It ended up without real accident but could have been a disaster. Not sure though if they maybe even went beyond the 100kmh.

 

One is nuts to be on the autobahn at night in the rain even without a trailer. It's the one area where Germans act like total nut jobs. I have had the displeasure of being on the bahn at night in the rain. The Germans absolutely do not slow down at all for rain at night. I have been passed like I was standing still, And I was at 75MPH myself. Bloody hell.

 

Glad to hear of everyone's non-conventional tow car stories. I was beginning to think I was the lone man in the wilderness. It has been difficult to look past all the American conventional wisdom about tow vehicles and start with a fresh view.

 

We are thinking about a 2014 VW Passat TDI. We currently have a 2008 BMW 328i w/60,000 miles. I worry about the BMW. It has been a great trouble free car. Yet, older beamers tend to be electronic nightmares. And I don't trust the BMW 6speed autobox for towing. (it's built by GM) So it always wants to be in 6th gear by 15MPH.

[rx7locost]

Looking back in my automotive past. I trailered a motorboat of around 1500 lbs with a Pinto along with 4 adults. I also towed a '64 Galaxy behind a VW microbus across town when the Ford broke down. I had a friend that regularly towed a boat behind his MG Midget. Somewhere in my computer, there is a photo of a Lotus Eleven being towed ny a 1950's MG Magnette. The MG had a 1500 cc engine and 4 drum brakes. My current daily driver, a '12 Hyundai Elantra, is rated for "0" towing in the USA. The same platform Hyundai with a smaller engine has a rating of 600Kg (1323 lbs) without brakes and 1200Kg (2626 lbs)with brakes, with a max hitch load of 75kg. To be somewhat fair, we in the USA get a 10 yr / 100,000 mile powertrain warranty while our UK cousins get 5 yr unlimited mileage. I wonder if the warranty costs are part of the calculation. Or maybe it is our tendency for lawsuits. "It is never my fault, it is always someone else's fault!"

Edited December 1, 2013 by rx7locost

[bigdog]

I wonder if the warranty costs are part of the calculation. Or maybe it is our tendency for lawsuits. "It is never my fault, it is always someone else's fault!"

 

I think it's first and foremost an issue of the auto companies using our American penchant for "bigger is always better" as leverage to push us to buy something with a higher profit margin. And one must remember that most folks whom buy a big tow vehicle already have a family car. So why on earth would a manufacture risk losing a sale by telling the customer that the car they already have will do fine towing. In Europe that's not the case. A lot of folks don't own a car at all much less two. The average German garage (most homes have a car port or only a small single garage) is not able to accommodate something like a Toyota Titan or Suburban type truck. I have about 4-6" to spare at the garage door opening to clear the mirrors on our 328. With fuel costing $10 per gallon, Along with the small roads and parking spots in Europe it just doesn't make sense nor is it easy to have a large truck in the first place. So one must look in another direction to show how epic one's ego is.

 

Of course I do believe the manufacture's lawyers have a hand in it as well. But, I do believe strongly that it's more about marketing to the unaware/ size matters American than it being about law suits.

 

When one looks at the wording in the US edition of a VW owners manual versus the UK's. UK says that the car can tow XYZ. The US manual says that "for technical reasons" VW recommends that this vehicle not be used to tow. That's BS speak for "we don't really have a technical reason you can't tow". If the car in question really wasn't designed nor structurally capable of towing don't you think that they would have said so in the manual. "Not recommended" does not mean you can't nor is it forbidden. It's merely a suggestion and not mandated due to vehicle design constraints.

Edited December 1, 2013 by bigdog

[s2k7]

http://www.autos.ca/general-news/automd-com-offers-top-ten-towing-tips/

[Guest Terry]

Interesting. I've recently been on the same voyage of discovery here in Canada. We were looking for a small travel trailer (and I mean small: 13 feet, 950 lb dry). We heard all sorts of dire warnings about towing it with our Impreza - instant fiery death destroying everything for miles around would certainly ensue. Equipped with trailer brakes and a proportional controller, it worked completely fine. And yes, we live in the mountains. Our first trip was towing over the Rockies.

 

I also noticed the discrepancies between UK tow ratings and the Nort American ones. In NA, you need a dreadnought class vehicle to tow a utility trailer, apparently.

 

I towed my Caterham SV behind my 2007 STI all over Alberta & BC. The Subaru is an excellent tow car. Trailer is 487lb. If you want one of these trailers let me know, $3,500.00 CDN.

 

http://www.7cars.ca/carpics/p7080003-0.jpg

Edited December 1, 2013 by Terry

[Davemk1]

This thread is interesting and very timely for me. I'm interested in towing a Seven behind my 2013 Jetta TDi wagon and see a lot of contradictory info out there. The US owners manual says that it can tow 1000lbs max while the VW UK website shows the towing capacity to be 1500 kg (3300 lbs) if the trailer has brakes.

 

I'll echo the confusion out there as to why the same car can tow more than twice the weight in England as it can here in the USA. It seems there is no engineering reason for this and the difference needs to be chalked up to some other reason.

 

The Curt hitch I have is rated at 2000 lbs with a 200 lbs tongue weight and it seems that it would be easy to stay below those numbers and be well within the range of the towing weight of the car in England or Europe. If I owned a trailer I'd just try it but it seems I will need to buy one to see it it works.

 

I very much like the idea of a dual axle trailer like you show in your photo and would be interested in learning more about this trailer. I'm surprised that it can be so light with 2 axles and 4 wheels. Can you share a link to the specs of the trailer you are using? I'd love to learn more.

 

Thanks -

 

dave

 

 

 

 

I towed my Caterham SV behind my 2007 STI all over Alberta & BC. The Subaru is an excellent tow car. Trailer is 487lb. If you want one of these trailers let me know, $3,500.00 CDN.

 

http://www.7cars.ca/carpics/p7080003-0.jpg

[Guest Terry]

I have access to 3 of these trailers if there is any interest. It has no brakes.

[bigdog]

[/url]http://www.autos.ca/general-news/automd-com-offers-top-ten-towing-tips/

 

all very good tips save for number one which is ambiguous at best

 

1. Understanding Towing Capacity

Never exceed your vehicle’s towing capacity.

 

Therein lies the rub s2k7. There are conflicting numbers for the same car from the same maker depending on the market that the car is sold in. There isn't a difference in the basic chassis of a UK, EU, NA Passat. There are minor tweaks to lighting, Pollution controls and such. But the unibody construction is the same. By the by. The $50,000 toureg that can haul 7700Lbs has unibody construction as well.

 

 

Terry.

Please post up a link to that trailer. It looks to be the dogs bollocks.

[ihckb2]

There are different specs for VWs, check your manual carefully. For instance my manual says that a TDI (140hp)with DSG/6S automatic cannot be used for towing. To do so voids warranty. No restriction on manual transmission with gas or TDI. Europe runs far more manual transmissions than North America.

It has to do with tongue weight more than trailer weight. A trailer with brakes should always be used, it is so much easier on the tow vehicle, and for safety braking.

VW can't make up its mind though. My manual says tongue weight maximum in one place is 165# and in another it says 200#.

[bigdog]

Ihckb2.

If you look at the UK golf TDI caravan test I posted. They were using the 6spd double clutch that you say is baned from towing the test car had a factory tow rating of 3300lbs. I maintain that it's down to marketing strategy to move the folks away from the cars to the pricey suv's for towing. That's it.

[S1Steve]

I have access to 3 of these trailers if there is any interest. It has no brakes.

 

Hi Terry, That's a nice little trailer, were are they made ? I would like it better if it had brakes.

 

Hope you are well, Steve

[Guest Terry]

Made in BC.

[bigdog]

Terry

Do we have to beg or are you withholding the trailer manufactures info for a reason? Just asking.

 

I want to be able to file this info for when we return to Walla Walla from Europe in 18 months.

 

Thanks in advance

[Guest Terry]

Terry

Do we have to beg or are you withholding the trailer manufactures info for a reason? Just asking.

 

I want to be able to file this info for when we return to Walla Walla from Europe in 18 months.

 

Thanks in advance

 

I am unaware of the maker, it's a local BC trailer company don't know who

[bigdog]

Ok. If you do happen across the info or even the city in BC be sure and post it up.

 

Thanks