savagete2860

Thank you all for your help. TL;DR After too much trial and error, I finally have 2031 dated Schrotch Flexi 2x2 harnesses installed in my standard s3 chassis, lowered floors, and Tillet seats with sliders Caterham. Seats... I did not build my car, RMC did so prior to this ordeal, I have actively avoided removing the passenger seat even though I know there is a nice rock collection under there. I can hear every time I take a turn. On the drivers side seat there are bolts that come from the bottom that tighten into a captive nut on the tillet slider. I have removed this seat a few times - its a pain but not that a big deal. The passenger side is different. It has 4 of the most frustrating bolts I have ever dealt with and is pure misery. It has hex bolts going from the top of the seat slider into a nut and washer under the car. The sliders are interesting because there are bolts with a large head that mount the seat to the rail and then there are bolts on the slider with the same sized head that mount the slider to the car. This limits the slider movement because the bolt heads contact one another when trying to move the seat on the slider. This also means installing and removing the seats require bolts to be fastened/undone in a specific order or else you cant get to the bolts that need removed/installed. To remove, I had to slide the seat as far back as it would go and shove my hand between the bottom center of the Tillet seat and the bar running in front of where the seats mount. Its a very tight fit - there were a few times I thought my arm was stuck. If the rear slider and seat bolts didn't contact, the seat would have been able to go back a bit further and make this less challenging. At any rate, when my hand was in place holding the wrench I could feel my way to get a 6mm hex wrench in the bolt, hold it, and undo the bottom side nut with a 13mm socket. With the front bolts out, it allows the seat to slide far enough forward enough you can get to the rear bolts. Same process there there, but without hand and wrist pain gymnastics. This also required a helper for all bolts since you can't reach both the nut and the bolt. Putting the seats back in was reverse order. It is also 10x more difficult for the passenger side, primarily because you have to fully tighten the rear bolts and hope that the front holes line up. My pro tip for this is put the front bolts in upside down and leave them in place (if you can get them in place without falling out) and then do the rear bolts. Old Harness Removal This was pretty straight forward. 16mm wrench/socket for the stuff under the seat. Then the fun started. The outboard shoulder belts are long. In fact, they are too long to remove if you have a roll bar/cage with diagonals. I decided to cut the bolt but none of my cool power tools fit comfortably so I ended up using a little hack saw and sawed away for what felt a lifetime. New Harness Install For the install, I had to prep the harnesses themselves by removing the clip on end plates and replacing them with the b24 bolt in brackets. I also flipped the side lap belts to be in the pull up configuration since there is no room to pull down. I then used the existing belts to try and adjust the length to match. For installation, I followed what was on the car already (top to bottom) bolt head washer b24 plate b24 7/16" pivot sleeve car The factory setup had a wavy washer between the pivot sleeve and the bracket but I left that out for now. The sub belt mounts were a little different. The factory pivot sleeve is much taller than the replacements, so I also added some washers to take up more space. To deal with those bolts I had to cut, I replaced them with the 38mm 7/16 bolt from HMS https://www.hmsmotorsport.com/products/schroth-bolts?_pos=4&_psq=7%2F16+bolt&_psid=a425155e5&_ss=e&variant=47230555160676 It has a much shorter head than the factory bolts, fit under the roll cage bar and still leaves threads sticking out the side it goes into. Test fit and Finalize Install Once the belts were installed, I did some test fitting of the seat and sitting with the seats unbolts. This is the point I actually switched the side lap belt to pull up instead of pull down because I couldn't properly tighten the belts. Adjusting the sub belt with the cam lock took a bit of patience. I can get to the adjustment brackets at the Tillet seat opening so I didn't have to remove the seat at least, but getting in and out of the car over and over to make them right was not quick. This is one thing I am a bit worried about for instructors/passengers. It also forces use of the sub belt, which I found most people preferred not to use it when it was optional when just on the street. Once everything was adjusted, I bolted the seats back in. Final Results and Thoughts I do like the new belts functionally. They're easier to adjust and there is more room for clipping in my simpson hybrid s loops in. They also let me track at NJMP, so hard to argue with that for function. It is a completely other topic, but if NJMP wasn't mandating dated belts, I would have happily lived my life with the Caterham Luke harnesses. My particular harnesses have about 6 feet of excess belt for each shoulder strap. I tied them together and plopped it behind the seats for now. When tightened, the side belts have a lot of excess belt as well since I flipped to the pull up configuration and you lose the ability to pull extra belt out of the way. They can just be tucked somewhere so not a big deal though. If I was doing this again, I think I would have just went with Caterham Schroth belts (assuming they are actually dated). Belts and hardware, my exact setup was around $1500. That does not include the headache of figuring this out and the shipping costs to return stuff that I messed up on by being a bone head. The Caterham belts would have just worked, fit better since they're made specifically for our application AND you still get the gorgeous yellow color that matches absolutely nothing.

I have to imagine a wet sump 7 on non slicks would be fine, but that's based on absolutely nothing. If its in the budget, I would vote dry sump. Not only for peace of mind but it also gets your more ground clearance if that is important to you. Only when I need to check or change my oil do I wish I had a wet sump.

Thanks @CBuff. Are you in an S3 or SV? I'm obviously unsure having never done it, but it seems like the b23a with a snap in would either not fit or be very tight. You are getting at what I was hoping though. I don't need to have the same bracket as the factory harnesses, just any bracket that can accept a 7/16" mounting bolt, right? I think I could do: b24 brackets all around (1/2 inch hole) SR 65L (sleeve for b24) related washers if they don't come with the SR65Ls. I need to pull my seats again to verify, but I already have sub-strap mounts from the factory substrap I think I can reuse instead of the weld on plates, so it should all be a bolt on affair. I am going to email HMS again and see if they can course correct me here.

I am getting nowhere on dated harnesses for this silly car. I ended up returning the Flexis because I was unable to find anywhere they could sell me the proper 5/8" bolt hole brackets and my return windows was almost up. HMS was the only place to elaborate a bit on my situation. They referred to this size as "Lotus brackets" and stated that there are FIA has rules/regulations in place that prohibit the sale of these brackets and they are required to be sewn in. They offered to sew in the brackets; $7 for each bracket and $25 per lap sewing charge. It lines up with what I am seeing - no one can help me with these harnesses :(. As of right now my only options seem to be either pay HMS to make me custom sewn in harnesses (so ~$2XX extra per side) or order from Caterham and hope they have a full 6 point available and that it is actually dated (This might actually be reasonably priced, relatively speaking). Is there is a bushing/reducer solution here where maybe I can replace the giant factory one with something more standard? The bolt going into the car is a regular 7/16th bolt, but its the bushing/reducer that requires the big 5/8" hole. Could I get a 1/2" bracket, and 1/2" to 7/16th reducer, and call it a day? I assume there is a tried and true recipe for harnesses in these cars and I am just missing it. For those that have non-Caterham harnesses in their S3s with tillets, how the heck are they mounted, where did you order from, and did they come with unique mounting hardware? Are they sewn ins with an end plates that have a 5/8" bolt hole?

Thanks I have a few more emails out, including to HMS. Hopefully I can find something. I will update if I figure out what will work.

Well, I went to install my new fancy 2031 dated Scroth Flexi harnesses and discovered that I am an idiot and they make these bolt in end plates in different sizes. The ones I got are 3/8" but the factory Caterham ones are 5/8". I can't seem to find plate that have this large of a hole though. Anyone know where I can get something that would work here?

Thanks for the info - I am going to go with the Schroth Flexi harnesses and bolt in style mounts since it seems we don't need to run "special" harnesses in our cars as long as they are bolt in. The Schroth ASM FE seem nice but I am really struggling to find the sub belt anywhere in stock and I don't think id ever use whatever harness I end up with in a 4 point fashion to worry about submarining. I do like the idea of the big red easy button though. FHR wise, I think I am going to stick with my current Simpson hybrid S. I am not trying to re-invent the wheel. I did see our friends across the pond recommending the work be done at Arch to make the harnesses correct, but i have no idea what they actually do. Maybe I will reach out at some point and ask if they would be willing to share. I will report back if I can find anything out.

I am getting more into tracking my seven and I am going to start participating in time trials as well as (hopefully) attending the USA7s meet at NJMP. This means I have to get dated harnesses, arm restraints, a fire suit, and an FHR device. I actually have the bulk of that list already or on its way, but I am looking to make a few changes. Harnesses Right now I have the standard Caterham harnesses and the sub strap to make it a 5 point. These obviously are not dated so I need to replace them. Before I pull the trigger here, I see companies in the UK sell Caterham specific harnesses, including Caterham themselves. Its not clear to me if those harnesses are actually dated though. I'm not sure how some of these harnesses are "designed specifically for a Caterham" either. I'd also prefer to order something state side for numerous reasons. Can I get any old pull down 6 point harness with bolt in brackets, or will something be weird in the Caterham, like the straps are 50 feet long or something else unexpected that might cause issues? What harnesses do people run here that need FIA dated? I am looking at getting something like one of these https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productdetails.asp?RecID=34016 https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productselection.asp?Product=SCH-94530 Then I would also need to get the bolt in style brackets and swap over to those. I actually ordered a set that were one year old so they were 40% off, but they're sewn in brackets with the snap in style so I need to return them Arm Restraints I just ordered these and I think they actually make a lot of sense for our cars (I do enjoy having arms), but I am a little worried about point bys. I am used to giving really obvious point bys which I assume are going to be pretty difficult to do with these. I can probably t-rex a point for a drivers side pass, but not sure about a passenger side pass. A lot of the HPDE organizations I run with do not allow turn signal point bys. Also I am worried the rear wheel fenders will obstruct the view of my restrained point bys as well. Have any of you had issues there? I will know soon enough when I get them in the mail, but I am curious to hear others experiences giving and receiving point bys from a restrained seven driver. FHR Like the arm restraints, this makes sense. Running harnesses, probably a good idea to do what you can to keep your head attached to your neck. I currently have a Simpson Hybrid S from tracking a Lotus Elise with a 3 point belt. Right now, at least with the standard Caterham harnesses, clipping in the rings from the Simpson Hybrid S into the shoulder straps is a real struiggle sometimes, especially when youre running late to the grid. Also, the back of the apparatus hits the seats making it a little uncomfortable. I think I would like to switch to a standard FHR device, but the shoulder strap angle and placement is out of whack on Caterhams woith factory mount points. They supposed to be between 0 and 20 degrees below the shoulders, ideally at 10 degrees and the mounts are supposed to be much closer together. Is it even possible to correct this? What do people do here? Just run at the incorrect angle? If this is a significant hurdle, maybe sticking with the standard mount points and my hybrid S is the best option.

I also use a Motive bleeder on my 420R and my Lotus Elise many times before that. Its pretty darn easy and works great. I agree doing it wet does waste fluid, thats my only complaint.

Thats a great idea. I already want a camera setup for the back of the trailer because I cant see anything behind. People love to get really close (I can see their vehicle's shadows) for some reason. Maybe they're hyper-miling while I get 12 mpg lol. Having a camera inside the trailer would be nice too. Did you mount the monitor in your tow vehicle? Funny you say that, I am almost in the same boat, although I can juuuust squeeze in with the hitch.

I use a hybrid hans with the Caterham 5 point harnesses. I would actually like to get new harnesses eventually so I can use a normal hans for easy or use. The hybrid is a little bit of a pain to get the lower rings clipped into the shoulder harness connection points. I have not been to Summit yet but I would like get out there at least once this year. Which layout do you like most? And which organizations do you run with when you go? Dominion is a bit more a a hike for me, but I am sure I will get there eventually too.

I was very much planning on going but I am not signed up yet. I didn't realize until more recently NJMP requires dated harnesses and arm restraints. I don't have either of those so I probably wont sign up this year unless I get that stuff squared away. Yeah I noticed they do Wonderful Wednesdays and Track Days with Reed Kryder 2x a month. WW is for "Experienced drivers" and I have only been running in novice groups. I could probably run in an intermediate group without issues, but something about attending an event that calls out experienced drivers frightens me. The Reed Kryder events have novice, intermediate, and advanced, so that might be what I go to and work my way to at least intermediate before taking the plunge into Wonderful Wednesdays. Do you go to those?

Yeah these trailers seem to be a whole hobby within a hobby. At the track, I got more people talking about trailers and stuff they want to do to theirs than they would talk about their cars . Mirror is a great idea! This is super cool and now on my radar. Seems like that would be easier to deal with than setting up a tent. That is a really good tip I didn't really think about.

Trying to see where I might bump into fellow 7 owners. Where and who are you all driving with? I am located in Pittsburgh and would love to bump into some other 7 owners at track event. I am a newbie outside of the now defunct PittRace. I just ventured out to Nelson Ledges with Chin Track Days, which aside from cruddy facilities was a really fun lap and I will be going back. Now that I paid the Chin membership fee, I am thinking about attending their event at Summit main on July 4/5th. https://chintrackdays.com/event-details.aspx?q=5ZPP1Gu2V14%3d Anyone else going? Which venues are 7 friendly? I have noticed quite a few don't allow 7s - namely PCA. Chin actually doesn't either, at least in instructed novice according to a post for 2012, but somehow I was able to register and do an event without issue.

First track day this year and first time at Nelson Ledges

Thank you to everyone who helped me figure this towing nonsense and indulged me and my unnecessary long posts! Last weekend, for the first time, I towed my Caterham to a track weekend and now I think I can add my final thoughts, opinions, and experiences. Towing setup recap: - 2026 Nissan frontier with a tow mode button and Redarc Tow-Pro Liberty Brake Controller - Steel frame 7x14 v-nose tandem axle car mate avalanche trailer (2375# empty) - 1280 lbs s3 caterham strapped down over the wheels via floor mounted etrack with ratchet straps. - Tongue weight was right at 15%. - Standard hitch - no sway/weight distribution - Hitch and door locks. - Grip tape on the ramp doors My first towing trip was a hair over 2 hours, 90% highways with 70mph speed limits. The weather was not very good - windy and rainy. I keep speeds around 55-65mph to play it safe and improve mpg a little - you can tell the trailer is acting as a huge air brake the entire time. Through the seat of my pants I could feel some very minor bouncing as well as sway/movement from wind gusts and hitting standing water. Surprisingly, the most movement I felt was not from semis passing me, but rather SUVs that were going ~30 mph faster than me, which I did not really expect. Overall, it pulled fine and I would do a very long trip with a standard hitch without much thought. I do have the Anderson WDH, so I might just install it since I already have it. So I did a >2hr stint in the truck and it was so, so, so much nicer than if I had to drive the Caterham. I had heated seats, took a phone call, listened to music, and enjoyed a cup holder. I also could comfortable shoes. Pure luxury! I probably would have cancelled the event and been out a decent chunk of change because of the weather without this new setup. The weather was atrocious all weekend. It was raining cats and dogs. The car only got wet when I took it out to do some ice skating on the track and once when I thought it was clearing up and I was stuck in a classroom. It was awesome to have a little home base at the track to stay out of the weather as well. Being able to lock up the trailer after the track day gave me a nice sense of security as well. This weekend also made me think of a few things that would be nice to have outside of just the bare bones trailer. 1. An extended roof at the rear to let less rain in the trailer when the ramp was down 2. Maybe a tent of cover the rear ramp when raining 3. mounted paper towel holders 4. mounted clipboard 5. A little shelf 6. hangers for helmet/hans/gloves 7. maybe a hanger for the nose cone and hood

Those rubber guys are captive on the straps and cant be removed. There are 3 per strap. The also have little nubs that are supposed to go in a center groove on a tire to hold the car in place even more. However, on the r888rs, the center groove is offset so you cant really use it. When these straps need replaced I will likely grab some regular straps. I plan on doing something like this eventually. I am planning on getting a second set of wheels for the caterham along with one or two trailer tire spares. This seems like the best solution for secruing them as well as maybe a few other things. You're including the 240lbs that is coming from the front axle with the trailer loaded. it would be (3020-2240) - (2800-2560) = 540 Thank you and good catch, I will move the roller closer next time and pay attention to that. I assumed it was close when i did this yesterday but you're right, looking at the photos at least the one could move at least on slot closer to the tire. If they are touching or could touch the tire in any capacity, is that too close?

Thanks everyone for you commets and advice so far. Made some more progress today. New tongue weight scale came in, and it wasn’t accurate at all either. These things are junk. It would weigh the tongue weight at ~200-300 lbs which just didn’t seem right. I decided to just strap the car down and drive to a CAT scale and get real weights. truck steer axle: 2800lbs rear axle: 2240lbs trailer axle: 0lbs truck + trailer steer axle: 2560lbs rear axle: 3020lbs trailer axle: 3100lbs So the loaded trailer was 3650, and tongue weight with where I happened to place the car, was 540lbs, pretty much sport on 15%. That also gives me about 100+ pounds more payload than I thought I would have which is great. I can probably move the car back a foot and gain even more payload if I ever needed it. Strapping the car down was... interesting. I am new to ratchet straps, etrack, etc. I put it all together and wasn’t 100% confident on how tight the straps need to be or where to place them. I just cranked away until it was not that easy to do more. I checked after a few miles and the straps didn’t move or loosen, so must have been okay? Here are a bunch of photos of the car strapped. Does it seem okay or should I change anything? Should I leave the car in gear with the ebrake on? I do have drings I can certain use in addition to the over the tire straps if that would be a good idea as well. The truck with the trailer loaded with the car drove fine, albeit I was not on a high way and only was going between 30-55mph. You can certainly tell the trailer has more weight with the car loaded though. Its much more sluggish in every area.

The weather has been cold and wet the last few weeks which has been holding up trying out my new trailer. My Caterham's radiator also decided to spring a leak, as they apparently like to do. Because of that, I have not been able to load up my car on the random decent days. I managed to sort the radiator and figured I'd load up the trailer and see where I could get the tongue weight using a scale I bought. This is important not only to see if I can even get under 15% window for tongue weight but also to see where my payload capacity lands with a loaded trailer. After passengers and fuel, I only have ~970 lbs left for available payload with no trailer, tools, hitch, etc, so I am going to be cutting it close. I put the car on the trailer, near the rear, and lowered it onto the scale. Bam - 250 lbs! I was starting to think the scale they used at the trailer shop was wrong since it ranged from like 700 down to low/mid 600s depending on car position. I was pretty happy because I am aiming for 365-550lbs and with how far back the car was, that should be simple to hit. I pushed the car to the front of the trailer and lowered onto the scale again, not is at 200 lbs. Huh.. turns out MY scale, not the shop's scale, was a dud and wouldn't measure over 200 lbs. I am now waiting on a replacement scale to try this all again and I still don't know exactly how I will load the trailer up or what my available payload will be. Figured I would post some pictures of my almost complete tow setup. Here is the full setup after I bought the trailer. No car loaded. These are all from today... Also discover the bell housing/skid plate gets hung up on the ramp door with me in the car. It just clears when the car is completely unloaded though.

So I bought a steel frame enclosed trailer, a car mate 7x14 avalanche. https://www.smouse.com/unit/2026-car-mate-7x14-hd-avalanche-v-nose-cargo-w-ramp-door-12-add-l-hgt-772540 It is taller and heaver than I probably would have liked, but they let me put my se7en on it, and its seems to have just enough room to not feel squeezed width wise, and more than enough length. The trailer weighs ~2400 lbs, my 7 weighs ~1250 lbs so it should be around 3650lbs. I would target 365-547 lbs to be in that 10-15% tongue weight. However, I had the trailer place measure the tongue weight, and with my car almost all the way back, it was closer to 630lbs. This was weighed at the trailer jack vs the hitch so I suppose the true tongue weight will be slightly less, but still probably over 15%. Is this a big issue? Even at 630 lbs, I have ~350 lbs of payload left over, but its getting pretty darn close. As for securing the car, I am going to have them put in E Tracks. Would the erickson tie downs work if the rear ratchets need to be in front of the to rear tire rather than behind? I imagine it wouldn't make a difference? https://www.etrailer.com/Car-Tie-Down-Straps/Erickson/EM58523-09162-4.html#exp-productdetails=.all-description Video of the straps: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4cK1aOsdbQ Hitch wise, I guess I am skipping the WDH hitch for now. The guy helping me seemed like the tongue weight was no big issue and and standard hitch would be fine. I was going to have the trailer place put one on when I go pick up the trailer - just a standard 2 5/8" inch ball hitch with whatever drop/rise it needs. I will be going to pick it up as soon as I get insurance setup and my storage spot secured (found a super close place that is $50/mo). I will post some pictures when I pick it up.

I didn't realize WDH's were a no-no on aluminum trailers, that is good to know. Low spec steel enclosed 7x14 trailers seem to range from 2k-2.5k lbs, so with the seven Id still be under 4k and have the option of a WDH, so I think that might be my preference. Having never towed, WDH and sway control sound like they would be really nice to have to avoid white knuckling every trip. Good to hear you haven't really felt the need for it with you setup though, this might be something I hold off on. Hitch wise, I am open to any and all recommendations. I am guessing something that allows the ball hitch to be higher or lower is ideal to try an level out weight - if I don't go the WDH route, I will probably get something like the regular weight safe hitch so I can adjust the ball height and see the tongue weight. I heard the gauges crap out after awhile, but as soon as I figure out where and how I will load the trailer, I don't think I would even need to look at it anymore. Thank you for your $0.02. At this point I think I would only consider a WDH if I got with an enclosed trailer. According the the dash I am at ~17 MPG in the Frontier, granted none of that is highway. Thanks - and yeah going with the Frontier gives me significantly more options than the Maverick towing wise. You are echoing others, hold off on the WDH. Trailer wise, assuming enclosed, how should I plan to secure the seven? Should I consider something like this? https://www.etrailer.com/Car-Tie-Down-Straps/Erickson/EM58523-09162.html?

I am one step closer to posting in the tow rig thread. I picked up a Nissan Frontier. I will still need to pick up a trailer brake controller and install Nissan's tow mode button, but its ready to go for towing. Unlike the Maverick, it allows me to rent a uhaul trailer or buy my own. It weighs 4720 lbs with a full tank of fuel, and has a payload of 1292lbs. Other than the awful fuel economy, so far its a great truck. Next up is a trailer. I am still undecided on open vs enclosed, although still leaning enclosed. It seems like it would be wise to get some type of weight distribution/sway control hitch. From what I have been reading, if you're towing anything that is 50% or more the weight of the truck its a good idea. With an enclosed trailer, I am sure I will be at or north of 3000lbs. Is this something I should worry about? Anyone able to school me on these? Something like one of these: https://andersenhitches.com/products/weight-distribution-hitch?variant=42320407068715 https://www.equalizerhitch.com/products/e2-hitch/ Any other hitch recommendations? I am going to some trailer places in the coming weeks to hopefully have something by next month which is when my first HPDE is.

I agree and I think you are spot on. Bumping up to a mid-sized truck gives plenty of head room for towing. I think before I was really trying to fit a smaller truck into my use case but really that's probably not the best decision. Funny you mention the Frontier, that is the truck I was planning on test driving soon. I have read/watched mostly good things.

I haven't decided anything yet and probably won't buy anything until closer to spring. It still largely depends on the tow vehicle for me, which is what I need to figure out first. After this winter storm, I am hoping to checkout some mid-sized trucks to see if they fit in my garage or not. With something like the Maverick, I will likely end up playing it safe and going with an aluminum open trailer. If I bump up to something where trailer weight would be less of a concern, no question, I would go with a run of the mill aluminum 7x14 enclosed. Either option would be tandem axle with brakes. I am also leaning towards renting a Uhaul trailer at first (this might be too heavy for a Maverick though, not sure). Then I can spend some time checking out local trailer places and seeing what trailers fit the Caterham and can still hit appropriate tongue weights on my specific vehicle - assuming they let me figure that stuff out. However, if I smack the lotto, I am going to order one of these fancy custom trailers that have been posted.

I appreciate everyone indulging me. I am 100% over thinking all of this, to the point of analysis-paralysis probably. At the end of the day, I just want the smallest enclosed trailer that can fit my Caterham, its weather gear, aeroscreen, and a spare set of wheels. This thread has helped me understand that a 7x12 or 7x14 would probably work for my use, and looking around that should put me at a weight that is close to 3000lbs, give or take a bit going the aluminum route. @Vovchandr has been saying 5k lbs tow limit or more for a vehicle, and that seems to add up with what others have been saying, so I think I need to look at a midsize truck vs a "trucklette" like the Maverick, unless I 180 and go for an open trailer. I will continue to ponder... still open to more suggestions, comments or advice.