BeagleGuy78 Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 I am toying with the idea of replacing the calipers and rotors on my Cat instead of just the pads ... If I do that, I would like them to be upgraded over the 2 piston setup that's currently on the car. Does anyone have any suggestions for complete brake kits that would fit inside 13" Apollo's? Other than weight ... What are the other problems that could be caused by making this change? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alfonse Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 I would probably call Wilwood. They make the Outlaw brakes that are on my Birkin and Caterhams come with their brakes too I believe. I would guess their support folks could set you right up. You might have to reset your front/rear balance and possibly change a master cylinder too. I'm sure others will chime in with their thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pksurveyor Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 Caterham uses AP brake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeagleGuy78 Posted July 29, 2018 Author Share Posted July 29, 2018 I have already asked Wilwood and the rep I spoke with said they didn't have anything that would bolt on to a Caterham without some custom mounts and directed me to a company that does some custom work out of AZ. They weren't much help. As for the front/rear balance ... Has anyone run a dual master cylinder setup to facilitate a brake bias adjustment? Is there a US supplier of AP brakes? I will do some more research on them as I am not familiar with AP at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
locost7018 Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 Are you replacing "M16" calipers on your Cat? I am looking for M16 Ford calipers for my 7. The original Ford Escort MK2 spindles on my seven use those. Burton Power in the UK has Wilwood replacements including adapters. I hate to order Wilwood calipers from the UK when they are made in the USA. Russ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Croc Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 I would stick with the Caterham AP set up. Upgrade the master cylinder to the Caterham race version to improve pedal feel. Go to the 4 pot callipers on the front. Upgrade the pads. Personally I would just do the first and third of these first and see if the change is enough. You should not need heavy braking in a Caterham even in track work. So the 2 pots should be sufficient. While you can order from Caterham UK and receive direct (quickly), you will probably find that they dont have anything in stock as AP Racing is on back order. So you may have to call Redline UK who also ship direct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeagleGuy78 Posted July 29, 2018 Author Share Posted July 29, 2018 I would stick with the Caterham AP set up. Upgrade the master cylinder to the Caterham race version to improve pedal feel. Go to the 4 pot callipers on the front. Upgrade the pads. Personally I would just do the first and third of these first and see if the change is enough. You should not need heavy braking in a Caterham even in track work. So the 2 pots should be sufficient. While you can order from Caterham UK and receive direct (quickly), you will probably find that they dont have anything in stock as AP Racing is on back order. So you may have to call Redline UK who also ship direct. It's not JUST the pedal feel I am after ... although that is my primary desire with the change. The calipers themselves and the hardware with which they attach to the ... control arm? ... Really let down the look of the car in my opinion ... Some surface rust on all of it ... Would love some nice painted calipers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeagleGuy78 Posted July 29, 2018 Author Share Posted July 29, 2018 I would stick with the Caterham AP set up. Upgrade the master cylinder to the Caterham race version to improve pedal feel. Go to the 4 pot callipers on the front. Upgrade the pads. Personally I would just do the first and third of these first and see if the change is enough. You should not need heavy braking in a Caterham even in track work. So the 2 pots should be sufficient. While you can order from Caterham UK and receive direct (quickly), you will probably find that they dont have anything in stock as AP Racing is on back order. So you may have to call Redline UK who also ship direct. Do you happen to know what model master cylinder to get? The one that is on my car looks quite large to my eye and I would hate to get the same part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeagleGuy78 Posted July 29, 2018 Author Share Posted July 29, 2018 My current brakes require a HUGE amount of force to get any stopping power at all ... And the difference between the amount of force to get nothing and locking up seems very small ... It leads me to brake WAY too early ... See my most recent session 2 post in my videos thread ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pksurveyor Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 I have both versions. The racing master cylinder requires even stronger leg. People nowadays are used to servo brakes on their modern vehicles. Caterham has none. First time drivers of my Caterham are always surprised by the braking effort. I late brake on corners at the last moment and my passengers sometimes stick their hands out thinking the car is not going to stop down. Get used to the brake feel and you will be surprised how late you can wait before hitting the middle peddle. The AP brake is also come in the same black color as the standard brake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pksurveyor Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 (edited) I went to the garage and took pictures of the standard and AP brake. Black wheel is the 4 pot and silver wheel is the 2 pot. My butt test at the track cannot tell the difference on stopping power. Edited July 29, 2018 by pksurveyor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scannon Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 I put a set of the Outlaw 4 pot brakes on the front of my Caterham SV. They bolted right on to the uprights with a little fussy shimming to get them centered over the disks. They looked better than the OEM brakes but didn't seem to be have any better stopping power so I went back to the originals. I still have them but I don't have the Caterham, they have about 500 miles on them. You can have them for $175 plus shipping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pksurveyor Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 Skip: did you paint the calipers red on your upgrade? It does make a big difference. Take a look at the F-cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeagleGuy78 Posted July 29, 2018 Author Share Posted July 29, 2018 I went to the garage and took pictures of the standard and AP brake. Black wheel is the 4 pot and silver wheel is the 2 pot. My butt test at the track cannot tell the difference on stopping power. Mine are 2 pot front and rear ... Love the look of your 4 pot fronts ... Mine all look like the unpainted 2 pots in your pics with a little surface rust here and there. As for the feel, I am able to get hard enough on the brakes to lock them up ... But what I would like is a greater usable range of pressure ... It seems like the difference between any braking at all, and locking the brakes up is very small. I hope I am describing that well enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pksurveyor Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 (edited) Have you changed the fluid? You are welcome to try my Performance Friction front pad. This is the recommendation from the Fort Worth Caterham dealer to fix rear brake lock up. It worked. Edited July 29, 2018 by pksurveyor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Stig Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 I’ve always found the standard Triumph brakes sufficient with Mintex 1144 pads. Use appropriately moderated leg effort rather than brakes that lock up at the first touch. Braking efficiency is as much to do with tires and suspension as calipers and pads. Brakes are overrated anyway. Who needs ‘em! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeagleGuy78 Posted July 29, 2018 Author Share Posted July 29, 2018 Have you changed the fluid? You are welcome to try my Performance Friction front pad. This is the recommendation from the Fort Worth Caterham dealer to fix rear brake lock up. It worked. I have replaced the brake fluid with a high temp fluid ... Blanking on type right now. I definitely think new/different pads is the place to start ... I have had several recommendations for Mintex 1144 pads so I will probably start there, thank you for the offer though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeagleGuy78 Posted July 29, 2018 Author Share Posted July 29, 2018 I’ve always found the standard Triumph brakes sufficient with Mintex 1144 pads. Use appropriately moderated leg effort rather than brakes that lock up at the first touch. Braking efficiency is as much to do with tires and suspension as calipers and pads. Brakes are overrated anyway. Who needs ‘em! I am definitely working on braking less ... Have knocked a solid 10 seconds from my best lap on day one ... Mostly through braking later and less Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James A Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 I have a street/autocross/track day Caterham SV with he AP 4 pots and an EP Race car that is required to have the Girling 2 pots here are the differences that I can attest to: The brake pad life on the 4 pots is significantly longer. The feel, ability to finely modulate the brakes is better on the 4 pots. Other than that, the car can be stopped in a similar distance, I have never experienced any fade of either brake. The two pots are super easy to rebuild yourself with a $25 kit, I haven't had to rebuild the 4 pots yet. My 4 pots fit inside a set of Caterham 13" wheels, but with just a couple of millimeters to spare. If you have the Girling 2 pots they are terrific brakes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeagleGuy78 Posted July 31, 2018 Author Share Posted July 31, 2018 I have a street/autocross/track day Caterham SV with he AP 4 pots and an EP Race car that is required to have the Girling 2 pots here are the differences that I can attest to: The brake pad life on the 4 pots is significantly longer. The feel, ability to finely modulate the brakes is better on the 4 pots. Other than that, the car can be stopped in a similar distance, I have never experienced any fade of either brake. The two pots are super easy to rebuild yourself with a $25 kit, I haven't had to rebuild the 4 pots yet. My 4 pots fit inside a set of Caterham 13" wheels, but with just a couple of millimeters to spare. If you have the Girling 2 pots they are terrific brakes! How can I tell which 2 pot brakes I have? They don't appear to have any identifying marks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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