Anyone read the latest Grassroots Motorsports? 7 vs Atom...

[sporqster]

I've not got my hands on the latest issue, but I hear it's worth the read. I'll be picking one up on the way home (apparently I managed to let my subscription expire?!?)

[Al N.]

Our very own Keith Tanner is all up in that issue...he gave us a heads up about it a few weeks/months back.

 

[EDITED SO THAT THIS THREAD SEEMS LESS INFLAMMATORY. THAT SAID, I STILL WOULDN'T BUY AN ATOM]

[Titus]

I stopped off at my local Barnes and Noble to pick it up a couple nights ago, but it wasn't in yet. I'm going to have to try again this weekend. :cry:

 

I had the opportunity to enjoy dinner with Keith, Bill, the Grassroots guys, and several Seven and Miata nuts the day they did the track testing and the photo shoot. If the story is anything like the comments I heard at the dinner table, it should be a pretty flattering read. I am very interested to hear how things translate to paper.

[R1 Seven]

That issue has been out for at least a couple of weeks now.

[Keith]

It was mailed on Aug 1st, but the newsstand date was the 21st. It's not on stands around here yet. GRM subscribers get their magazines quite a bit earlier than the poor rabble who buy it at the newsstands.

 

Personally, I'm pretty happy. BS did a good job on the article, which was a tough one to write. I'll be interested to hear what you lot think. And besides, it got me an invitation to Atomfest, possibly to settle some scores. I think I'll wear a shirt with a big target on my back They did say that Bill could come as well, which means we'll have a turbo Westfield along...

[xromad]

Yea, I read it. Kind of what I expected.

 

:_deadhorse:

 

Atoms are very nice cars. Very quick and very competent. But like every other car out there, they need to be sorted before they achieve maximum potential.

 

Sevens are also very nice, quick, competent cars, and when sorted are DEVASTATINGLY fast.

 

If you are going to run against a well sorted Seven you had better be taking it seriously, or the Seven is going to eat your lunch.

 

Keith's car was sorted, the atoms were not.

 

Brent

[slngsht]

It was mailed on Aug 1st, but the newsstand date was the 21st. It's not on stands around here yet. GRM subscribers get their magazines quite a bit earlier than the poor rabble who buy it at the newsstands.

 

Personally, I'm pretty happy. BS did a good job on the article, which was a tough one to write. I'll be interested to hear what you lot think. And besides, it got me an invitation to Atomfest, possibly to settle some scores. I think I'll wear a shirt with a big target on my back They did say that Bill could come as well, which means we'll have a turbo Westfield along...

 

we better get a gang of the fastest sevens out there :lol:

[Davemk1]

As cool as the Atom is (and I do think it's very cool) I just can't se it ever overtaking a Seven in the handling dept. Having more than 60% of the weight on the rear wheels has it's effects any way you look at it.

 

51% rear - 49% front - Dave

[Keith]

I don't think the Atom guys viewed it as a competition. They're used to undying adulation with their cars and probably expected more of the same. At the track, the Atom guys didn't even look twice at my car.

 

It's pretty interesting looking at their culture, suggest that it's possible to improve the stiffness of the chassis on their forum and they'll be all over you. Do the same on a Se7ens forum and you'll get into all sorts of interesting discussion. This might be because our cars are the result of 50 years of evolution so we're used to seeing changes, while the Atom sprung to life fully formed. We're also used to seeing a wider variety in our ranks beyond color and one of two engine choices. This attitude may change as the car evolves, if it does.

 

They're quite different to drive, though. Between their track/wheelbase ratio (pictures do not illustrate how wide the car is) and the forward seating position, the Atom has a very immediate feel. It's always trying to change direction and never really settles down. I'm sure some of this could be tuned out, but the inherent design of the car is always going to be twitchy and the feedback is a bit muted. Meanwhile, you sit right on the rear axle of a Seven and they'll happily talk to you all day as you drive sideways. It doesn't smack you upside the head about how much of a superhero it is, it just does stuff. The Atom makes a big deal out of it.

 

Dave, I've got a fair rear weight bias on my car when it has a passenger on board. Surprising, really.

 

slngsht, you're not kidding. If even one Atom goes faster, it'll prove that the GRM result was a fluke

[R1 Seven]

It was mailed on Aug 1st, but the newsstand date was the 21st. It's not on stands around here yet. GRM subscribers get their magazines quite a bit earlier than the poor rabble who buy it at the newsstands.

 

 

I did not realize that...most magazines that I have subscribed to in the past turn up about the same time...sometimes the newsstands get them first. :cuss:

 

That was a good article. Glad your car had a good showing, Keith.

[Davemk1]

I don't think the Atom guys viewed it as a competition. They're used to undying adulation with their cars and probably expected more of the same. At the track, the Atom guys didn't even look twice at my car.

 

It's pretty interesting looking at their culture, suggest that it's possible to improve the stiffness of the chassis on their forum and they'll be all over you. Do the same on a Se7ens forum and you'll get into all sorts of interesting discussion. This might be because our cars are the result of 50 years of evolution so we're used to seeing changes, while the Atom sprung to life fully formed. We're also used to seeing a wider variety in our ranks beyond color and one of two engine choices. This attitude may change as the car evolves, if it does.

 

They're quite different to drive, though. Between their track/wheelbase ratio (pictures do not illustrate how wide the car is) and the forward seating position, the Atom has a very immediate feel. It's always trying to change direction and never really settles down. I'm sure some of this could be tuned out, but the inherent design of the car is always going to be twitchy and the feedback is a bit muted. Meanwhile, you sit right on the rear axle of a Seven and they'll happily talk to you all day as you drive sideways. It doesn't smack you upside the head about how much of a superhero it is, it just does stuff. The Atom makes a big deal out of it.

 

Dave, I've got a fair rear weight bias on my car when it has a passenger on board. Surprising, really.

 

slngsht, you're not kidding. If even one Atom goes faster, it'll prove that the GRM result was a fluke

 

Very interesting. Thanks for sharing.

 

I suppose my Birkin would have more of a rearward bias too with a passenger. My 51-49 is with my skinny butt in the car alone.

 

Dave

[Keith]

The Birkin is a little more, ahem, "faithful" to the original Series 3 than my car is. In particular, you have the engine further forward in the car. I also have a beefier roll bar than many other people do. If memory serves me correctly, my car's about 48:52 empty. Put someone in it, and the rear wheels get pushed into the pavement even more. Good for acceleration, good for braking.

 

By "passenger", I mean any occupant, including the driver.

 

Thanks for the kind words, Jeff.

[Al N.]

To clarify my bias against Atoms...given all the press hype, I considered them when I was looking into buying a fun car back in 2005. But as I've said before here and elsewhere..,go price one out — with all the doo-dads and built up. I'm pretty sure it's north of $80k. And yes, the CSR 260 with the current exchange rates is probably close to that....but the Superlight I bought was considerably less out the door — though don't ask what I've got in it by now :cry:

 

The other thing is that given what I went through with titling and registering my Caterham here in NJ, I'd imagine that an Atom would be impossible to get street legal in my home state. And besides, I'd probably just go for a Lotus 340R if I was going to go through all that trouble...

[rv-4mike]

I got interested in a 7 type car by way of the Atom. Beautiful car and I loved it immediately. Then started looking into it. Joined the forum and did some research.

 

Unlike this forum, the folks on the Atom forum are uptight snobs. Everything but the Atom is a POS. Could never get an unbiased opinion about anything.

 

Tried to get an honest opinion about the difficulty in registering one in CA. Registration is a topic that will immediately get you censored on the forum. A lot of the guys there are trying to back door them into various states and are paranoid about somebody spilling the beans and their local DMV office finding out. So you wont get any info on that subject.

 

The cars are drammatically more expensive than any of the 7 variants. And the owners actually see that as a positive thing. Protecting their investment. In the brief 4 months I was investigating the car, Brammo Motorsports had 2 significant price increases that bumped the price of the most basic version up over $50K. The masses on the forum congratulated Brammo for increasing the value of their investment and for finally pricing the car in line with its capabilities. :ack:

 

And dont even ask Brammo about non-standard (or even standard) options. If its not on the website its not possible. Want your frame a different color of powdercoat? Thats a $1000 option.

 

In summary, still love the car. Dont like the manufacturer's policies and dont like the attitudes of the owners if the guys on the forum are any example. Looking forward to reading the GRM article - particularly if the Atom gets trounced by a 7.

[rv-4mike]

Had to look. I couldnt find any reference to the GRM article on the US Atom forum.

 

Apparently there was another significant price increase in mid-June. A car that cost about $50K at the start of the year now costs about $65K. It is actually possible to spend $125K for an Atom by specifying the top options Brammo offers.

 

For that amount I could buy my Ultralite S2K for the street, an Ultralite XR7 for the track, and a pretty nice truck and trailer rig to haul the XR7 to the races. And still have money in the bank. Those Atom guys just keep drinking the poison Kool-Aid that Brammo feeds them. But I guess its all good. If you are a current Atom owner, the value of your used car apparently went up again.

[Mondo]

Did you see the maintenance guide for the Atom:eek: I saw they were having a problem with wheel bearings too. I'm sure they'll get them dialed in but at the prices they're asking:banghead:

[slngsht]

Had to look. I couldnt find any reference to the GRM article on the US Atom forum.

 

Apparently there was another significant price increase in mid-June. A car that cost about $50K at the start of the year now costs about $65K. It is actually possible to spend $125K for an Atom by specifying the top options Brammo offers.

 

For that amount I could buy my Ultralite S2K for the street, an Ultralite XR7 for the track, and a pretty nice truck and trailer rig to haul the XR7 to the races. And still have money in the bank. Those Atom guys just keep drinking the poison Kool-Aid that Brammo feeds them. But I guess its all good. If you are a current Atom owner, the value of your used car apparently went up again.

 

At those prices you can have a nicely built Ultima with about 30K of additional engine work.

[Al N.]

Like I said, start really adding up the numbers and researching registration and the appeal dwindles significantly...I will stop now before someone claims I'm Atom-bashing.

 

It's one of those deals that sounds so good in the magazines and when Jeremy Clarkson or Tiff Nedel drives one, but the reality — at least for us over here in the US is quite different.

[Keith]

I've found the same thing as rv-4mike on the Atom forums. It's quite a community.

 

There was a thread about the GRM article on the Atom forum. http://forum.atomclub.com/index.php/topic,5433.0.html . The last poster has since been run off the forum because he put different wheels on his Atom with some massive slicks.

 

Between the time of the track test and the article seeing publication, the price of the Atom my car was being compared to went up by $15,000. And yes, this is viewed as good because of what it does to resale. The 300 hp cars are turning out to be 240 hp cars, but anyone who says anything bad about that is a terrorist. Anyone who tries to make the car into a better track car is accused of making the Atom into something it's not, anyone who tried to make it more comfortable for the road is trying to make the car something it's not.

 

I think the car lost something in the translation from Honda to GM engine (although the shifter on the Honda-based car I drove was unbelievably vague), and Brammo is struggling to deliver cars. But there's no question the car has achieved a huge mindshare in the usually oblivious public, and that can only be good for those of us who like our fun small and light. People are starting to realize that performance isn't all about big engines and big weight.

 

 

[slngsht]

It's one of those deals that sounds so good in the magazines and when Jeremy Clarkson or Tiff Nedel drives one, but the reality — at least for us over here in the US is quite different.

 

That's so true about anything Jeremy drives, EXCEPT the Corvette. :cuss: