Any Ford crossflow experts out there???

[7Westfield]

anybody wants Jake's book, I have a very nice spare copy

$30 posted US

Charlie

[Vinman1]

7Westfield,

 

Would like to buy the Jake Lamont book

[Vinman1]

Here is my Facet fuel pump installed on rubber isolators on bracket I made. This feeds regulator / filter set up on the other side w/ fabbed bracket in second pic. Never hear or feel it with car running. Remember to put ground wire on pump when using rubber isolators...

[jbcollier]

By all means use a gauge to set up the correct fuel pressure — though it is better to use a correctly spec’d pump and ditch the reg — but remove the gauge and plug the port for regular use.  Gauges can fail, or be easily mechanically damaged, and then you’re spraying a flammable liquid all over the bottom of the car.

[IamScotticus]

I've been wondering about that pump.

Spewing fuel all in the boot?

Thats just a good cleaning 😝

[Vinman1]

JB,

 

Yes, on the gauge. The pic was taken when installed, and not yet run to set up. The kit comes with a note that the gauge is "for initial set up only" and has the brass plug to go in its place. 

[IamScotticus]

a pressure regulator as close to the carbs as possible is good insurance against whatever might cause a fluctuation.

I got a thing from Pierce Manifold that is an inline regulator of sorts but not for pressure, for surges to create a smooth flow into the  bowls.

I show it off on my build thread.

Edited March 21, 2023 by IamScotticus

[jbcollier]

Most fuel pumps for carbs are not positive displacement pumps.  They are spring-powered, diaphragm pumps.  Before you start spluttering, yes, they use either mechanical or electrical power to move the diaphragm against the spring.  This, however, is just to draw in the fuel.  The force pushing the fuel out comes from the spring working against the diaphragm.  So, the pressure output is provided by the spring, and is always the same as long as the flow rate does not exceed the pumps output.

 

The only reason to fit a pressure regulator is if you are using a fuel pump whose output exceeds the carb's recommended supply pressure.  It is always best practice to fit the right pump rather than fit an additional regulator to choke down a higher output pump.

 

What happens when the fuel pressure is too high?  When the float drops, and the needle valve opens, fuel flows in too quickly and agitates the fuel in the bowl throwing off the carb's metering.

 

Are there situations where you would want a higher pressure (capacity) pump and a (high capacity) pressure regulator?  Yes, if you are using a carb(s) with either super or turbo charging, there may well be such a dramatic range of required flow rates that a low pressure pump won't be able to keep up.  You may also want a variable pressure regulator to adjust the fuel pressure to keep the air/fuel pressure ratio the same as boost climbs.

[IamScotticus]

Liking the specs on this pump.

it quiet, rotary and <4psi.

https://www.cbperformance.com/product-p/3193.htm

Any experience with it?

[MV8]

That is the Carter line of pumps I described. There are several different versions of the same pump from Carter with different psi. Looks like CB Performance relabels mfg parts for twice the price to obscure the source. That's enough reason for me to never buy from them.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/175482284501?epid=250436671&hash=item28db8f29d5:g:JMEAAOSw2Yljastl&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAA4BsdZW6yscFsoJwGkOMOAPxyHHHpQ%2BCAkqownMOQO3IOxhV%2FwY6jOvvDfUitVBd8HoFI0ilMBjj3y6pJ11J69oGz93c1S%2BN60NSx6J6Bi8LNyGs%2BeRXr90Ui3eY%2BfqfQzXd8ufui6KzIOwZqwON6sX0Ub%2BdWZ2H%2B4%2FUPjBXX6PW6OtShbK1ieObh2cPGLu%2BebxuXm70APMBxvOA1PrGLSYZpvgUOOZ1lHRonFUBH6hWlcmU0zABJR4RtO6%2FPf0x9V41%2BviHzWx%2FouD4c2d4ALuAc652yUxgqz0CNba21lpSH%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR_af9MvlYQ

If gph and operating psi are critical, I'd call Carter with your needs so they can recommend the best currently mfg'd pump part number or ask for specs on several part numbers to make your own decision.

Also, excess pressure can overcome the float design and adjustment cannot compensate to shut off the flow into the bowl. Some carb designs are more sensitive to higher than 2.5 psi. We're just trying to keep the bowl(s) full. Most older sport bike carbs are just gravity fed.  

[IamScotticus]

Thanks, Mv,

I remember someone recommending that one but couldn't find the thread again. 

Yea, $70 is pretty stiff for what it is.  I definitely want the volume.

 

175482284501

Edited March 29, 2023 by IamScotticus

[speedwagon]

My superformance s1 that was intended for a zetek and built with a rotary and a 48 webber  had a tee between the pump out and the return and fed the carb from the T with no regulator. I thought it was stupid but evidently I was the stupid one as I was never able to get a regulator to work on it. Guess that just the pressure drop in the lines was enough for the webber.  john 

[MV8]

The zetec application in tank efi pump will last longer with the tee. You could pinch/restrict the return tee hose so the pressure is adequate at high rpm, wot, and high load with a standard inline regulator between the tee and the carb to prevent idle pressure from being excessive while still reducing the wear and pressure on the pump at idle (highest return flow). There are return regulators that combine these things and use a carb jet to dial in the return flow.

[speedwagon]

MV8.   Thanks and this is for the many times you have enlightened me on this site. Your willingness, vast knowledge and the time you obviously spend to answer some specific questions is admirable. but I have solved almost all my carburetor problems with injection. the only carburetor that worked for me was an SU ( used one on a draw thru turbo application) burned clean at 4500' and was still clean at 14,000 but a pain in the -- to learn how to use for an old Michigan farm boy.

[IamScotticus]

Carb jetting is black art magic. 

Stay away!

[jbcollier]

I disagree.  With a wide-band O2 sensor and an A/F-R gauge.  It is far easier than it used to be.  You still have to know what to look for but that is readily google-able.  I have set up quite a few carbs from scratch now.  It’s methodical and painstaking work but fairly straightforward.

 

I use an old Innovate Motorsports LM1.  They now have the LM2.  

 

 

[IamScotticus]

Cool.... I need it, with a good jet cheat sheet.

 

From the website:

The LM-2 combines an air/fuel ratio meter, a full-function 32-channel datalogger, and powerful software to deliver a complete tuning workshop for less than the cost of one dyno day. Whether you have a piggy-back fuel controller, race carb, aftermarket ECU, ODB-II tuning software, or a flash/chip programmer, an LM-2 is the tool you need to dial in maximum HP. The meter’s award-winning digital signal processing technology provides data on exactly how rich or lean an engine is running at any load. The LM-2’s self-calibrating circuitry also compensates for changes in temperature, altitude, and sensor condition. The LM-2 also features two fully programmable linear analog outputs to connect to analog gauges, dyno computers, ECUs, piggyback controllers, and other devices with analog inputs. With the provided LM Programmer software these analog outputs may also be defined by the user.

[jbcollier]

The engines run in Sevens are all well known do a starting baseline will be available.  That’ll nail your chokes and emulsion tubes and have the rest close-ish.  Then you are just tweaking the small stuff.

 

It’s when you go from scratch that things get really expensive.  4 sets of three or four different emulsion tubes really sets the cash register to ringing!

[speedwagon]

I have 2 widebands. one will stay on the s1 when the rotary turbo conversion is complete. And I totally agree about using a wideband to tune a carburetor., it is the best of investments. The 2 barrel webers are just too expensive to tune ( I have one that was bought specifically for a na rotary that came jetted so far off that everything needed to be changed. and the cost to do that and then fine tune it is about the cost of 2 new carburetors)  the easiest to tune is also a webber--- the edelbrock 4 barrel made by webber. "duck soup". But there are two good guides-- 1 no substitute for cubic inches and same for FI.  But the SU was for a specific use and was very easy to tune once you understood the design and was as altitude insensitive as any (and you could far exceed the normal air flow with a large enough pump).   john

[IamScotticus]

Well  I already learned noob lesson #1, when replacing a corroded emulsion tube from an internet vendor and paying the $7 in shipping, always get a matching pair, not just one.  The new one won't be cut the same as the 50 year old tube its replacing of the same number. $$$

Edited March 31, 2023 by IamScotticus