Interesting autocross experience

[Davemk1]

Hey There,

 

I had a very interesting time last weekend here in Montana at the SCCA NorPac Divisional event. It was run at the Helena Emergency facility (HUGE) and the courses were set as prep for the Nationals coming up in Topeka. We had a number of folks from the left coast stop by to attend on their way to Nationals.

 

Normally at local events I'm the only driver in D-Mod and I often take FTD. Not so this time with the big guns being there. The biggest guns were Karen and Ron Babb who between the two of them hold many National titles. These folks are damn good and it shows. They are competing in D-Mod with a 60's Lotus Elan with a Ford BDA under the hood.

 

I'm driving a Birkin with a stock Zetec putting out 140ish HP. Our first runs were pretty close in time but after they figured out where they could open it up their times dropped in a big way. After watching the Elan pull out of the corners like a rocket I asked how much power they had. I was told 230hp and nearly the same torque. Talk about bringing a knife to a gun fight. I drove as well as I could and felt I drove close to my potential and left little on the table but I was still about 2 seconds back on a 65 second course.

 

It was really cool to watch them drive. It became obvious that they were making up large chunks of time every time they pulled away from slow corners. I could equal them in the twisty bits once up to speed but they would get up to speed so much quicker that I.

 

At the end of the event I mounted my tire rack on the back and loaded up for the drive home and got the wildest looks from my D-Mod competitors. "You drive that on the street?"........"You drove that the 90 miles to the event?". Yes and yes. They wondered why I was 80 pounds over the minimum weight (headlights, heater, passenger seat....etc. all add up). It was fun to see their reaction to the fact that they were given a bit of a run by my summer daily driver.

 

I've included a Google Earth shot of the place we race in Helena. It's next to the Airport and it's huge. We run there a bunch of times each summer and one can easliy set a 2 1/2 miute course there and run most of the time in 3rd gear. Good fun.

 

One more event left for this season and then it's time to ski. I love skiing but I'll miss the driving.

 

Dave

 

http://www.usa7s.com/aspnetforum/upload/1045908112_helena airport.jpg

[slngsht]

around DC, some might call that a super speedway :lol:

[Boxologist]

lot of awesome points in your post dave. thanks, and site looks great. What is being built in SCCA D mod as dedicated autoX cars far exceeds what caterham has as we consider "factor spec" in all but the r400,500, and CSR. and those who go FI have to take weight penalties and go into E mod. there was a HUGE thread herein the beginning of the autoX section, primarily about last years protest. i looked thru the pure Prepared classes and we can't really get into there because of the minum weights either. so we just have to go and enjoy the cars as is.

 

oh yeah, gunning 3rd gear will not be SCCA Solo course. it'd be fun tho.

[Davemk1]

Hey Box-man,

 

Yes the only place you can really run with a light weight Seven is in D-Mod. To be competitive one needs to get the weight down (1380lbs with driver for a 2.0L motor). My street car is 1460 with me in it. So I could take out 80 pounds but the only way to get much weight out is to remove the stuff that makes it streetable. So any weight I lose in the near future will be small and pull double duty (being engine rotating weight..........undersize crank pulley and aluminum flywheel are in the short term plan. I should be able to shed about 15 pounds of engine speed weight this way.) The other thing you need to do is have big HP. The Nationals winning DM car for years now has had 285hp and is completely unstreetable. So as you all know if you want to be competitive you aren't driving a street car.

 

On the other hand I get great joy beating up on really expensive cars with really big numbers with my 140hp. At the said Divisional event the guy who won the SS class was driving a Porsche 911 GT3 RS. The driver is an EVO instructor and I got him by 1/4 second for a sweet victory in the emotional "street car class". This is that class that doesn't exist in the SCCA but that we street car guys cling to to make ourselves feel better when watching the race cars getting rolled into their trailers.

 

 

 

On the 3rd gear deal. It seems to depend on who is setting the course and where you are running. Events in Helena always have me in 3rd doing a minimum of 70mph. Our Top Gun State Championship about a months ago had a 4th gear slalom that I was doing 85mph through. This was even with a number of SCCA regional safety guys there and no one blinked an eye. The place is just that big so the 65mph guideline seems to be ignored. I know it's against the rules but it happens and seems to be sanctioned. I'm proud to say that I pulled FTD both days of the event against over 100 cars and carts. That was my big goal for this year and I'm pumped that I pulled it off.

 

Our local Bozeman events are 2nd gear 60ish at best as the lots are normal sized.

 

Thanks for reading.

 

Dave

[Boxologist]

what i have gathered from SCCA Solo rules is that every thing beyond teh series 2 is well, screwed. Prepared classes let the older sevens get by with 4 stroke engines at about 1 liter or less. most of the classes have a multplier on the displacement that calculates minimum allowable(?). gotta go back and read XP, i thought there was something that was possible...

[yellowss7]

Dave, you're correct 1380 is the weight for those with hugh 2.0 motors, but you also need to add 40 lbs to that for the modified tub.

Per section 18.1 ....

"All series of Lotus 7, 7A, Super 7, and their clone or kit

forms such as Birkin, Westfield, Locost, are automatically

classified as modified tubs. This also applies to the Cobra

and its clones."

 

That pushes you up to 1420 as the minimum weight, so you only need to shave off 40 pounds. Get on one of your bikes and do some of those mountains!!! Just kidding!

 

Your other option is to put an 1800cc motor in and your minimum goes down by 100 lbs. and you'll have to add weight. With my 1800 K series, my car comes in at 1164, so its a good thing I carry all this extra weight.

Tom

[Davemk1]

Dave, you're correct 1380 is the weight for those with hugh 2.0 motors, but you also need to add 40 lbs to that for the modified tub.

Per section 18.1 ....

"All series of Lotus 7, 7A, Super 7, and their clone or kit

forms such as Birkin, Westfield, Locost, are automatically

classified as modified tubs. This also applies to the Cobra

and its clones."

 

That pushes you up to 1420 as the minimum weight, so you only need to shave off 40 pounds. Get on one of your bikes and do some of those mountains!!! Just kidding!

 

Your other option is to put an 1800cc motor in and your minimum goes down by 100 lbs. and you'll have to add weight. With my 1800 K series, my car comes in at 1164, so its a good thing I carry all this extra weight.

Tom

 

Hey Yellowman,

 

Right you are. For all the times I've looked at that rule book I've never put that together. So yes I need to shed some weight (not as much as I thought) and this really drives home the need to add power.

 

At 6'4" tall and 175 pounds I think I should look to taking weight off the car instead of off me. I'd look even dorkier at 6'4" and 135 pounds.

 

Thanks for setting me straight.

 

Dave

[yellowss7]

Dave wrote:

 

175 pounds

 

175 lbs. I think my left leg alone weighs that much. :rofl:

 

Tom

[Davemk1]

Dave wrote:

 

 

 

175 lbs. I think my left leg alone weighs that much. :rofl:

 

Tom

 

I've got nothing to say about that :-)

 

Dave

[tnttim]

Yes you all seem to be correct,,

 

They class ALL sevens as modified tub chassis. so add the 40

 

According to SCCA Solo Rules 2007:

 

D. Minimum Weights

1. Weight vs. Displacement

All listed minimum weights are with driver.

 

DM

 

Piston engines up to & including 1800 cc 1280 lbs.

12A rotary engines w/ porting restriction 1280 lbs.

 

Piston engines 1801 to 2000 cc 1380 lbs.

13B rotary engines w/ porting restriction 1380 lbs.

 

EM

 

Piston engines up to & including 3200 cc OHC

1700 lbs.

Piston engines up to & including

4500 cc pushrod/OHV 1700 lbs.

2-rotor rotary engines w/ unrestricted porting 1700 lbs.

Piston engines unlimited displacement 1800 lbs.

3-rotor rotary engines w/ unrestricted porting 1800 lbs.

 

 

2. Performance Adjustments

 

DM

AWD Add 200 lbs

Modified Tub Add 40 lbs

 

EM

AWD Add 300 lbs.

Modified Tub Add 50 lbs

 

3. Weight Bias Adjustment

Bias determined by weighing with driver sitting in the driver’s

seat.

 

DM

RWD w/ less than 51% of the weight

on the drive wheels Deduct 35 lbs

FWD Deduct 35 lbs

AWD Not affected

 

EM

RWD w/ less than 51% of the weight

on the drive wheels Deduct 50 lbs

FWD Deduct 50 lbs

 

 

This is 18.1.D

 

Now if you run a Turbo you have to Multiply your engine displacement by 1.4. Then use the adjusted Displacment to do the weights.

 

I am going to use a Turbo engine and extra strong frame and I still will end up having to put weights in it.

Removable of course for those non-anal (opps) I ment non-regulated events.

[yellowss7]

What size is the engine are you planning on using? If you're using an engine larger than 1425 cc and turbo charging then I think you will be bumped into EMod. Tom

[AK Seven]

This is beginning to change the engine plans for my Locost (again). Originally I had planned a Mazda B6 SOHC, then SR20DE, now a 13B Turbo rotary... but if the turbo is putting me into E Mod territory, I may go back to the SR20DE or try to find a non-turbo 13B. I want to run autox and track events, but don't want to jump in over my head as far as driver skill is concerned. Plus a local autox'er is currently building a DMod here in Montreal (we run SCCA rules) so I should have some competition.

 

Actually a turbo'd 1428.5cc is still legal in DMod.

[Boxologist]

what i have gathered from SCCA Solo rules is that every thing beyond teh series 2 is well, screwed. Prepared classes let the older sevens get by with 4 stroke engines at about 1 liter or less. most of the classes have a multplier on the displacement that calculates minimum allowable(?). gotta go back and read XP, i thought there was something that was possible...

 

reread most of the SCCA autoX regs last night(marker sizing). XP has a 2000#+ displacement muliplier minimum.

 

GP would work, so can anyone figure out why we're not there?

[yellowss7]

Jon, it comes down to DM/EM is where they want us. The cars are just too dominant to allow them in any other class.

 

Tom

[Boxologist]

while that is true, BP has basically gone bye bye, and GP is seeing diminishing numbers, possibly soon to where it can't hold its own field.

 

while last years Solo Nationals news was the D/E mod protests, the big news out of Topeka was one of the BoDs mouthing off to a high MazdaSpeed rep.

 

larger discussion

 

i guess since its the offseason lots of discussions have been started with the idle time, and with membership only and insulting the mazda brass A LOT of people are questioning what National is up to.