Winding Road- Caterham vs Elise

[eVox]

Well written compairison of the Elise vs our very own Seven. Plus some beautiful pictures!

 

http://magazine.windingroad.com/windingroad/2008GHweb/?folio=11

[slngsht]

good read... not many surprises.

[scannon]

Good article and pictures. Two things stood out that don't quite make sense.

 

One is the price as tested at just under $38k. I don't believe that includes the engine & transmission. I went to the RMSC website and priced out a Roadsport SV. Equiped as mine is (an '04 Roadsport SV), the kit would have cost over $38k and they didn't show the option for the 16" wheels both the test car and my car have. I don't have anything on mine in the way of options that wasn't on the test car.

 

RMSC lists the SVT Focus engine starting at $9,400 so the test car is closer to $50k by the time you get an engine and transmission in it.

 

The other thing is that the weight at 1,440 lb is 100 lb more than my car which has a cast iron turbo and manifold as well as an intercooler and plumbing that the test car doesn't have. I would have expected it to come in lighter than my car.

 

 

[Sean]

I noticed the article was originally published in July/August of 2005, which would explain the price difference.

[Kitcat]

The weight for this combo is consistent with the other magazine articles I have read (Stalker & Ultralight owners can quit hanging their heads). It's 200 lbs more than my Classic, X-flow, which I had weighed a coupla months ago.

[Mike Rohaley]

I wrote an article on this subject last year for publication in our club newsletter. I know that Sports Car International will never offer me a job for this but I thought you guys may at least find this of interest.

 

From the Drivers Seat - A comparison test: Lotus Elise and Caterham Super Seven

 

By Michael Rohaley

 

Many consider the Lotus Elise to be the 21st century version of the ultimate elemental sports car. Those same people are likely to consider the Lotus Seven (later the Caterham Seven) the 20th century version of the same. Assuming you agree with these opinions, you may wonder what has changed in those years and how two similarly focused cars differ in the areas of performance, comfort (a relative term in this category) and seat of the pants feel in comparison to each other. Well, lucky for you we have done just that.

What are they like?

 

I recently had the opportunity to drive the first car in our comparison, a 2005 model year version of the Lotus Elise. For those that don't know the specs off the top of their head, the base car tips the scales at 1984lbs. and packs 190hp in its 1.8 liter mid-mounted engine bay. With a claimed 0-60 run of 4.9 seconds this car is definitely no slouch. The great part about a modern car such as this is that it is capable of such a potent performance while at the same time providing its occupants with such niceties as air conditioning, ABS, driver and passenger side airbags, stereo and optional power windows. These items are something the other car in our comparison has never offered. The Caterham, a 2001 model weighs in just under 1200lbs. and produces 147hp from its 2 liter engine. A claimed 0-60 time of 4.7 seconds makes for a quick trip to ticket town if you should let it loose on the public roads. The amenities that the Caterham provides are very different than the Elise, paint, for instance is on the option list. Items such as individual seats versus the standard bench are on the list along with a heater. Aside from your choice of the DeDion rear end over the standard live axle version this pretty much concludes the major options on a Seven. While these cars will never be mistaken for each other they do have many similarities, they both seem to attract about as much attention as a U.F.O. landing wherever they go. They are also similar in the fact that you cannot get into them quite as simply as you would a traditional road car. When you open the door in the Elise you will need to clear the wide sill and drop gracefully into your seat, the "gracefully" part takes some practice but once seated the interior has a very open feeling to it. For me, this exercise was done with the top off and open to the sky, if the hard or soft top was in place it might not have been so simple. The Seven makes ingress a bit harder, when dropping into the seat you must slide your legs down into the black hole that serves as a foot well all while trying to safely clear the steering wheel that seems impossibly close to the seat. This too is assuming you are in topless mode, with the weather equipment in place you will need to accomplish the previous tasks while trying to fit through a 20"x 30" opening provided by the flap that calls itself a door. Once settled into your seat with the roof off the main sensation is a feeling of total exposure, instead of feeling that you are "inside" it you feel as though you have "put it on". For those familiar with the feeling of exposure vou get on a motorcycle, imagine that with vour head at hubcap level. While this may not sound like a fun experience, once you do get acclimated to your surroundings it is very comfortable car for the average sized person to drive for any distance. For instance, my wife and I did a 12 hour straight drive from Birmingham Alabama in our Seven with no problems at all. The seats hold you in like an adult sized child safety seat and no chiropractic care was required when we got home.

What are they like to drive?

 

The mid-engine layout of the Elise places the drive

[Mike Rohaley]

I case you didn't bail on my above posted article, I also wrote a comparison article between a my good friends 1962 Series 2 Lotus Seven and my 2001 Caterham.

 

A Tale of Two Sevens

By Michael Rohaley

 

2007 marks the 50th year of production for one of Colin Chapman’s most loved and certainly most duplicated designs, the Lotus Seven. In that time the world has changed quite a bit, but somehow the basic principals used to develop this car from that time have remained largely unaltered to this day. By staying true to the theory that “less is more” when it comes to fun on the road and track, this most basic of cars remains relevant to this day and beyond.

 

While this car has been around, it has evolved to keep up with the changing landscape of the automotive world. The first Seven, while looking very similar to the current generation, is truly worlds apart from the car you can purchase new today. Underneath the skin the most critical part of any Seven, the chassis, has undergone many number of changes that allow the car to handle the ever-increasing stresses put upon it by modern powerplants and advancing tire technology. What this all makes for is a car with a developing personality that changes with age. For better or worse is what we are going to determine today.

 

The cars we will be comparing will range from an early 1962 Series 2 Lotus Seven and a late model 2001 Caterham Seven which is based on the later Series 3 design. At first glance to the novice eye they are extremely similar save for the larger section tires and corresponding wider rear wheel arches of the Caterham. The basic dimensions of the bodies are identical and their classic look would lead many to think that there are much less than forty years of age separating these two. Once you get up close and take in the variances of the two you begin to see just how different they really are. Starting with the interior, the Series 2 Lotus has 1” thick upholstered padding lying directly on the floor and rear of the cockpit to provide a nonadjustable seat for both driver and passenger, lack of seat belts also stand out by their absence. The interior appears very open and accommodating. The classic wood-rimmed wheel completes the simple dashboard of toggles and gauges, fuel not being on of them. A wooden stick kept in the back of the car allows for checking the level. The idea with this omission is simple, if it does not make the car faster or keeps it from running, leave it off. The Caterham seems much more snug with its bucket seats mounted on adjustable tracks in an all black cockpit. Six point harnesses and a small diameter suede steering wheel along with a relatively complex dash panel of gauges and rocker switches complete the interior; a fuel gauge is included here.

 

With a quick walk around the outsides, you will notice that the exposed front suspensions are of very different design; the Lotus uses a very Chapmanesque technique of having the front anti-roll bar form the front half of the upper wishbone while the Caterham uses a separate upper wishbone along with the anti-roll bar. The reason for this change came when tire technology advanced to a point that exceeded the capability of the earlier system to keep the front suspension from binding under the higher loads now capable by these new shoes. This is just one of those evolutionary changes that make these cars so different in character. This change also most likely added some weight to the car by no longer having one part doing two jobs. While not noticeable without crawling under each car, the Lotus uses a live rear axle while the Caterham uses a DeDion setup which reduces unsprung weight at the back of the car allowing for a nicer quality ride compared to the earlier system. Again this inevitably added a few pounds over the old design. You are probably now figuring out just how a 950 pound Lotus grows into a 1200 pound Caterham, the answer is “A little bit here, a little bit there”.

 

Getting ready for a drive in the Lotus is a ver

[Mandurath]

Good reads.

[slngsht]

paint is optional - i like it :lol:

[Kitcat]

Mike: Good job. I look forward to your comparo of the Caterham CSR 260 vs the Exige 240S. My money is on the 260, as long as the track doesn't have a lot of long straights (No tests on the VIR long course, please).

[Mike Rohaley]

Hmmmm. My buddy Frank has the CSR 260 bit covered but I have no clue on how to get my grubby little hands on someones 240S. Anyone foolish enough to........I mean willing to lend me their pride and joy for the sake of literature? I'll even fill the tank back up.

[James A]

I think I can add a little to this as I owned both the Caterham SV and Elise with the sport suspension at the same time. I had one of the very early deposits on the Elise, November of 2001! I got the Elise in when the first batch of sport suspension cars came over it was one week before LOG 24 in Birmingham, what was that September of 2004? . While waiting for the Elise I built the SV in 2002. Now I sorted the SV out really well changed springs, corner weighted the car, etc. etc.

I received the Elise and took it to an autocross right away, guess what, the SV was way quicker, not a little, a lot. In fact I took the SV to LOG 24 and at the autocross there were a number of Elises and 7s. I entered the autocross on my street tires (OK they were CR500s) and there wasn't an Elise within 3 seconds of me. So for autocross the Elise just didn't get it. So I took the Elise to Road Atlanta and while it was faster on the back straight overall the 7 handled much better and in fact was a lot more fun to drive. Bottom line, I sold the Elise after 6 months and moved on.

As I tell people when they ask why I sold the Elise "It is a great car, in fact it is the second best car I have ever driven" or " the Elise is just too civilized for my tastes"

[Stokked]

Thanks for sharing the articles. Good stuff!

[EburgE]

Nice write-ups. Thanks for posting!!!:cheers:

[solder_guy]

Thanks .. I printed them out .. for a read on the couch.

 

Rob

 

[rv-4mike]

Good articles... a fun read.

 

Something not mentioned in any of the articles, but something to consider if one is to have a long term relationship (ownership) is maintainability. I dont have personal experience with the Elise, but my daily driver for the past 15 years has been an MR2 Turbo. It's a blast to drive and being a Toyota is stone reliable, but everything breaks sooner or later. And when it does...:ack:

 

I just recently had the experience of repairing a broken hose that supplies coolant to the oil cooler mounted sandwich style under the oil filter. This hose is affectionately known to MR2 owners as the hose from hell. I spent roughly 2 weeks under the car fixing this. There is virtually nothing on this car that can be fixed without MAJOR effort. The first time this hose failed I paid a shop to replace it. $1600 labor to replace a 2" hose.

 

Any 7 type car should win this contest hands down. And this was a major part of the motivation for me to get my Ultralite. Exceptional performance in a basic easy to maintain package.

 

I will probably own the MR2 for the rest of my life because it has been an exceptional car for the most part and I've had it so long its like part of the family. But if I didnt already own it, knowing what I know now, I'd never own another mid-engine car.

[Boxologist]

box :heart: mkII mr2s

 

best ergonomic cars ever made.

[MNlotus]

ill be able to do my own test soon. i already own a 2006 elise and i am in the process of buying a 2003 caterham super seven dedion.

[slngsht]

you'll need a 2nd driver for a valid test. you might find a few volunteers here