550 Spyder?

[Kess]

I am looking for a little advice and I know I am asking from a biased group but I still thought I would ask any way.

 

I had a very nice Superformance S1 that I sold 3 years ago now. Maybe this was not the best decision but I had two sports cars at the time and my wife thought one would be better. I got a nice practical BMW M3 convertible with SMG tranny. I drove it for a while, but there was no love between us and I sold it without a second thought. Now I only have a very nice and fast 2000 turboed Miata which is fully kitted out at this point (coilover/roll bar/wheel & tires/brakes), so not much left to toy around with. My wife says I can get a second sports car (rather than a young girl friend) and I have been looking. I miss an even lighter more direct car than the Miata.

 

So now the question; I have been looking for a 7 and have let a few slip away that I could afford. I am still looking, but in the meantime I saw a 550 Spyder and liked the look of it. I have been looking into them a little more. There are two primary kits Beck and Vintage. The Vintage looks to be a bit more performance oriented. They mostly have air cooled motors which I know very little about. Also these have swing axle rear suspensions which I remember work only so-so (I think the rear wheel camber changes under hard cornering which sounds bad – like 70’s era 911s I think). A few have water cooled Subaru motors which I know more about. These also have IRS. But I am having a hard time finding any for sale. Have any of you had any experience with any of these cars? Just curious to compare how they drive compared to a 7. I am looking for a performance car, but light open cars feel fast even when you are not going very fast.

 

Thanks for your thoughts.

 

Gary

Former 7 owner

Edited September 18, 2011 by Kess

[Boxologist]

a new Birkin w/ IRS. maybe a nicely tuned duratec. that's what came between the lines to me.

[Croc]

I love the look of the 550 Spyder however all the Beck ones I have ever seen/driven were based on the Volkswagen Beetle (the original one). Engine, chassis and suspension all borrowed. I learned to drive in a 1971 seasick green color Volkswagen Beetle thats been in the family since new and only 61000 miles on the clock (been around it a few times though!) Describing the performance as average would be too generous and the handling was evil as you approached its very low limits. The Beck version was faster because the heavy tall body had been removed but you still reached the same chassis behavior just at higher speeds.

 

Now if you could avoid a Spyder that started life as a Beetle then I think it might be worth looking at - especially if it used a Porsche air cooled flat 6 and had the IRS option you mentioned. The Porsche aircooled sixes are great engines - reliable, easy to work on, easy to get spares. The Subie flat four would be another option but I was not aware they had put these into the Beck Spyders.

 

Even so this is a rather effete option when put against a Seven like car. It comes down to how hard core do you need to be with your second sports car? You already have a nicely warmed up Miata so wouldn;t the Spyder just be a variation on a theme? More of the same or do you want a very different character car to unleash on those days when you feel like it.

 

Just my penny thoughts - its a wonderful problem to have and you have a great wife who understands us boys need toys!

[athens7]

OK, how much time have you got? I owned Beck 550 #789 for 4 years before I bought my 7. Here's the short version: I coveted 2 cars (that I could possibly afford) in my adult life, a 550 spyder repro and a Caterham 7. The Beck was the more affordable of the 2 at $30k loaded in 2003 vs. $40k+ for the 7, so that's where I started. After 4 years, I sold the spyder and bought my Caterham. Almost 3 years later, I am still very happy with my car, feeling I improved my driving environment and capabilities significantly. If I had owned the 7 first and traded it for the Beck, I would be FURIOUS now. The 7 is a better car in every way (the spyder sure was pretty, though).

 

If you want to learn more about all things 550 spyder, go to http://www.spyderclub.com, where you will find an active, engaged group with lots of good advice and expertise. Also, this is where you'll find the best used car marketplace.

 

There are 4 manufacturers of spyders at this time: Vintage, Thunder Ranch, Special Edition, and Stuttgart Spyders. The Beck Spyder no longer exisits under that name, but the Beck is based on bodies and frames from Chamonix (a Brazilian company) and is sold through Carey Hines at Special Edition (good folks). All of these spyders are purpose built, mid engine cars, NOT new bodies on beetle pans. All use torsion bar front and swing axle rear suspensions, except the Vintage, which uses trailing arms and coil over shocks in the rear. All are fiberglass bodies on ladder frames. There is one company that builds an aluminum spyder, but they are expensive and I know nothing about them, or even if they have built their first customer car yet. Vintage offers the Subaru engine option, otherwise a VW Type I 4 cylinder with dual Weber 44IDF carbs is standard. CB Performance builds a nice 2165 CC unit that puts out a (purported) 185 HP. Jake Raby builds a righteous Type 4 motor (Porsche 914), but it's $$$$.

 

Generally, the Vintage is the most meticulously built, but many people find dealing with Greg Leach (Vintage's owner) very difficult and frustrating. All of these cars require significant fettling, as they make a good seven feel like it came off the assembly line at Stuttgart!

 

Buying advice-buy used, from an owner with great records and a penchant for upgrades. My car was much better when I sold it than it was when I bought it new in 2003. For cosmetic upgrades, find Russ Rodriguez at Fibersteel (great guy!).

 

Safety-makes a 7 look like an S Class Mercedes-Benz (just so you know).

 

There, 4 years of anal retentive experience in one post! BUY ANOTHER SEVEN.

[pi7ot]

If I was in your shoes, you wouldn't have any, but what I reckon is....You're standing at the edge of an Ant Lion trap.

To ensure that you don't have the sand slip away from under your feet and you fall into the trap, I would casually, and carefully mention your two choices to SWMBO.

Tactfully get around to finding out which one SHE would prefer, and then discover which one she thinks is a chick magnet. Then buy the one she prefers.

 

It makes you wonder why you are back almost full circle into repeating history.

 

Me? I'd pick the 7, as I enjoy the activity of driving a light weight hard core driving machine.

 

m

[Kess]

I have been looking at the Vintage. All that I have looked at are pre-owned and loved and improved and de-bugged. I appreciate hearing how they drive. As I said I know little about air cooled motor so that worries me.

 

I have been hanging on the Spyder Club site, but you know how it is if you ask all the cars drive great and no one wants to say “on air” that one is better than another. Kind of like asking which 7 is the best. I am sure a few folk here have opinions on that. In the end I guess it all depends on what is best for you or in this case me.

 

As far as the chick magnet goes I do not think my wife is too worried since I attract women like that George Clooney guy without the need for a fancy car. SWMBO laughed when she saw I wrote this - not sure how I should take that.

 

I was pretty sure that a newer 7 would drive better as the breed has been continually improved. I hope to drive a Vintage 550 and then I guess I will know if it measures up from a driving enjoyment perspective. I will also keep looking for a 7.

 

I saw a very nice Robin Hood that looked well put together but in looking into the kit it was not a tube frame and so I was not sure about it. I also saw a few Rotuses but once I got a better look I decided they were not for me. I guess a new IRS 7 would do the job.

 

Thanks again for the help. I will be lurking on the FS pages.

 

Gary

Edited September 18, 2011 by Kess

[athens7]

The air cooled Type I motor is a simple product, with good parts availability. It is better to have a mechanic who has some experience with this type of motor. There are some endemic traps to avoid; the Bosch 009 distributor doesn't hold time well, tending to over-advance, which can lead to cooking a cylinder head (personal experience). Replacing with a Mallory with special spring settings is a good investment. Vintage spyders tend to use the 911 cooling fan shroud; a pretty, but less effective way to cool the engine in a mid-mount application. Jake Raby's DTM shroud is best. This is an important consideration, because the #3 cylinder is prone to hotter temperatures than the others, and it is easy enough to cook a Type I motor. Lastly, the throttle linkage for the dual Webers is crap; there is an excellent thread on spyderclub on how to fix this problem. Until that is done, it is much more difficult to keep the carbs synchronized.

 

As to handling, I can only speak to my car. The 550 was designed with swing arms in back, 110-135 hp, and 4 inch tires. My car had the same suspension, 185 hp, and 6 inch tires. Where the original car tended to slide, the reproductions grip and then let go. The car takes an understeering set into a corner, then switches to oversteer. Trailing throttle oversteer is always a concern. The closest contemporary equivalent in my opinion would be a Lotus Elise, as owners with whom I've spoken say it transitions similarly.

 

If you plan on any competitive use, I would think the Vintage would be much better, as it has some transverse hoops in the frame that hold the body in place. The Beck is just a ladder frame with the body attached by machine screws. If I had autocrossed my spyder like I do my 7, I think it would have fallen apart in a year.

[slomove]

If you are also looking for a Se7en this seems to be a nicely equipped one. Forwarded from the Birkinowners List. I know the owner only from the list but do not know the car.

 

______________________________>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

 

Folks,

 

The time has come for me to part with my Birkin. We recently adopted a little girl, and the Birkin does not "fit" in my world right now. I hope to sell it someone who can fully enjoy it.

1999 Birkin, 25,250 miles; full weather gear, purple wings & nosecone

1997 Zetec

SPC Close Ratio Gearbox

Quaife Differential

Emerald ECU with mapping software

Jenvey throttle bodies

Wide-band lambda sensor (Innovate LC-1) installed; software included

Fuel Safe Birkin-bespoke fuel cell; foam replaced last month

5-point harnesses for both driver & passenger

Extra set of fiberglass wings (need paint to match)

Custom Trailer built by Dennis Brunton

Full history of invoices for parts and service

$22,000 or best offer for the car, trailer, & other stuff.

 

I am looking to replace the Birkin with a Lotus more suitable for my life right now-- I'd appreciate it if anyone has a line on an Elan+2, Elite, Eclat, or Excel that has been restored or is in very good condition. I'm not looking for a project car, but something that we can drive and enjoy right away.

 

Tony

Indianapolis

[Kitcat]

There is a stunning looking Vintage 550 Spyder listed for sale at Lotustalk.com, under "Cars for sale-Not Lotus". Claimed to be 1300 lbs, 190 hp at the wheels, fully sorted, etc., $28.5K. Mite be best not to look, it is so beautiful:)!

Edited May 16, 2010 by Kitcat

[Hudson]

While I plan on having a seven until I'm unable to get in and out (perhaps next week) this does look nice.

 

No knowledge of the car or owner other than the ad...

 

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-cars-sale/541568-beck-550-spyder-1955-factory-replica-porsche-550-a.html

 

Ed

[Kess]

Well it took a long time, but I finally drove a 550 today. It was made by a Florida company called Euro Spyder. I think it is a Beck type derivative. It has some improvements like lined and padded doors and a real door handles as well as better hinges then a standard beck. The owner had installed a better shift linkage. They car was not tuned properly but it ran okay over 3K. The paint had some minor issues, but the car was overall very nicely finished.

 

After being taken for a ride I got my turn. Tons of foot and leg room compared to a 7. The passenger needs to be small as the seats were offset and very close to each other with no tunnel for separation. The clutch picked up very high, but I am sure that could be adjusted as well as the timing. What I did not like was the steering which was very vague and slow to respond. I can only vaguely remember what a VW bug felt like, but I think it was like this. I am not sure if all Spyders have the same steering feel, but I liked the steering feel and the instant response on my former 7 much more.

 

I will say the car was great looking. Even better then I thought it might be. If I had one maybe young women would think I was George Clooney. Anyway since I want a car for the pure driving experience and not to attract young women I think I will keep looking for a 7. I have a Birkin in my sights that I plan to go see next week.

 

Gary

[Paul Hill]

Gary

 

You might want to check with Tony at http://www.lotusowners.com

They are a Rochester/Buffalo NY area based Lotus owners club/group that always seem to have a few Lotus 7s and Caterhams for sale on their site. Tony seems to know where they are hiding...

No affiliation etc, usual "buyer beware" disclaimers apply.

 

I do believe you will do well monitoring this site as well as some VERY good cars pop up here fairly regularly.

 

I also believe you've made the right decision coming back to the 7 family. Most other cars pale in comparison!