engines and compatibility

[kennyrayandersen]

So,

I'm thinking about another project similar to a 7 and I have some engine/transmission compatibility questions.

 

Will the Fiesta 1.6 L bolt to a T-9 transmission? I think it is referred to as a Kent engine, but is it a cross-flow?

 

The old cross flow/Kent? came in a 1.3 L and also a 1.6 L (and can be bored out to a 1.7 L I think). Are all of these engines compatible with the T-9?

 

I think the Zee-tec replaced the cross-flow, right? or is it the same thing.

 

As far as wight goes how light is the cross-flow compared to the Zee-tec or Duratec -- I think the Duratec is around 40 LB lighter than the Zee-tec?

 

What about that newer motor I hear about from the UK called the Sigma? I think it is. It also sounds like a decent engine -- would it be compatible with any RWD transmissions?

 

Sorry if I seem a bit confused -- it's because I am!

 

I'm not necessarily looking for high output with this application, but light weight and something that revs easy, but it should be RWD [in the end].

[Ian7]

Smarter experts will be along soon, but here's my 2 cents worth:

 

Will the Fiesta 1.6 L bolt to a T-9 transmission? I think it is referred to as a Kent engine, but is it a cross-flow?--------- the Kent is what people call the crossflow, and does mate to a T9. It's basically the old english Cortina and old USA Pinto motor. First generation Fiesta you refer to is a different engine not suited to 7's.

 

The old cross flow/Kent? came in a 1.3 L and also a 1.6 L (and can be bored out to a 1.7 L I think). Are all of these engines compatible with the T-9? --------- IIRC, the 1.3 has reliability issues and parts availability problems. No advantage over the 1.6 Kent. Bored out 1.6's are typically called the "supersprints" in Caterham lingo.

 

I think the Zee-tec replaced the cross-flow, right? or is it the same thing.-------- "Zetec" is a 2 litre, more modern replacement for the Kent. Usually fuel injected, but can be carb'ed (but why bother?). A very common upgrade to replace the Kent in 7's. Also accepts the T9.

 

As far as wight goes how light is the cross-flow compared to the Zee-tec or Duratec -- I think the Duratec is around 40 LB lighter than the Zee-tec?--------- don't know exact numbers, but Kent is a boat anchor compared to any modern engine. Search Blatchat for answers.

 

By the way, why a T9? if money isn't too tight, how about a Quaife with a much better selection of gear ratios more suited to a 7? (T9 has terribly low first gear, with big jump to 2nd).

[Kitcat]

My very brief Google search shows the Kent weighs 20 lbs less than the Zetec and has a lower center of gravity. But it makes less power. All of which conforms w/my fragile memory of previous posts on the subjet.

 

BTW, I like the Quaife idea.

[locost7018]

All Kents (711m block) are hard to find in the States thanks to the Formula Ford guys. The 1.3 and 1.6 are the same except the 1.3 is about 1" shorter in deck height. Conn rods are shorter. They are the same bore, same head (smaller valves). I know this because I probably have the only 1.3 Kent in the US in my Locost. The nice thing about Kent's is that they are a lot shorter in height that a DOHC motor. The only motor that I have found that compares to my 1.3 in height is the Suzuki Swift GTi 1.3 DOHC motor and it is getting just as rare. The Fiesta motor is a Kent but most were not drilled on one side for a motor mount. They can be drilled because a lot of FF drivers have done it. Also the crank on the Fiesta was not bored for the throw out bearing so that would have to be drilled also. ALL Kents are strong motors but not very high reving in stock form. They can get higher revs after doing some tweeking. The Brits refer to them as "Lumps" and that they are. If you have choices, use a Zetec, 4AGE, or other modern lighter engines. Kent's are old school but I love mine. Russ

[Kitcat]

Russ: Ditto the Kent love. The Kent is not pretty to look at but makes a glorious sound. Also, while not hi-reving (mine redlines at 6500) they are real stump-pullers, lots of easy to use torque in a nice wide rev range. Compared to a Zetec, they make tons of pollution, get much worse gas mileage, and are rougher running. But they are easy to love and mine has, at 26K been totally reliable. Powering a 1200 lb car certainly doesn't over-stress it, even when driven by a maniac, as mine is:).

 

Mike

[locost7018]

My red line is only 5800 but I have heard it can go higher. Russ

[TheDingo8MyBaby]

Will the Fiesta 1.6 L bolt to a T-9 transmission? I think it is referred to as a Kent engine, but is it a cross-flow?--------- the Kent is what people call the crossflow, and does mate to a T9. It's basically the old english Cortina and old USA Pinto motor. First generation Fiesta you refer to is a different engine not suited to 7's.

 

To be a bit clearer - the name kent refers to the block, the crossflow is a type of head.

 

All Kents (711m block) are hard to find in the States thanks to the Formula Ford guys. The 1.3 and 1.6 are the same except the 1.3 is about 1" shorter in deck height. Conn rods are shorter. They are the same bore, same head (smaller valves). I know this because I probably have the only 1.3 Kent in the US in my Locost. The nice thing about Kent's is that they are a lot shorter in height that a DOHC motor. The only motor that I have found that compares to my 1.3 in height is the Suzuki Swift GTi 1.3 DOHC motor and it is getting just as rare. The Fiesta motor is a Kent but most were not drilled on one side for a motor mount. They can be drilled because a lot of FF drivers have done it. Also the crank on the Fiesta was not bored for the throw out bearing so that would have to be drilled also. ALL Kents are strong motors but not very high reving in stock form. They can get higher revs after doing some tweeking. The Brits refer to them as "Lumps" and that they are. If you have choices, use a Zetec, 4AGE, or other modern lighter engines. Kent's are old school but I love mine. Russ

 

The fiesta 1.6 (771 Kent block) will indeed bolt up to the t9 transmission. Some 771 blocks did not have the 4th boss (not just drilling-the boss is missing) for the motor mount - so check the block or make sure this will work for your application.

 

In general, the 711 is the easiest to come by and the 771 and 711M are the most tunable. 711's should be a bit easier to find now that ford has started the reproduction of the blocks and Formula Ford is now Formula F - people are starting to ditch the 711 for the Honda fit motor.

 

Here's a list of kent blocks:

 

681F6015DA (or 6915) - Tall deck crossflow 1600cc

120E6015 - First five main block 1500cc

2737E6015B - Tall block version of 120E 1600cc

771M6015CA- Fiesta 1600cc

711M6015BA - Tall block, big caps 1600cc

831C6015B34 - Service block - South African casting.

 

Former block in SVO catalog. Quality questionable.

711M-6015-A-A - 1.3L

 

711M-6015-B-A - 1.6L

681F6015DA -1.6L Cortina

120E6015 -1.5L Cortina

2737E6015B - 1.6L Cortina

771M6015CA- Fiesta

711M6015BA -1.6L Uprated

 

 

Stolen From: http://www.thekentlives.com/thekentengine.htm

[horizenjob]

I'm very fond of these engines. Had them in my Formula Ford and my Fiesta. They are very small. The one in my FF is something like 19" tall and rather short too. Nice advantages in a Formula car. I think the weight is in the 225 lbs. area and they now have aluminum heads available.

 

These engines founded an entire racing industry. Lotus built their twin cam head for this engine. Then Cosworth built their twin cam belt drive version - the BDA which ran in Formula Atlantic. You can see the heritage in the famed DFV, which still has three letters in it's name! :-)

 

There is a huge variety of parts available for this motor. From cheap dry sumps to the finest Cosworth steel.

 

The motor in my FF was strong and reliable, I never used the clutch to shift. That includes the occasional missed shift as a novice or the time I just forgot... They run to almost 7500 RPM these days in FF, still on the stock carb. Street cars run to about 140 HP, race engines to 165 or so easily. I understand the Brits get over 180 and run to almost 8500 RPM on the stock crank and rods (maybe?).

 

Quite a nice antique. The xflow will go to 1750 cc, I believe. The twin cam and BDA can go to 2 litres with aluminum blocks. They still have room for the pushrod cam and may use it to drive the oil pump. I am not sure if you can install the pushrods in those blocks though. Drat I was looking at one yesterday and forgot to check. Will have to go back there... Good for small spaces.

 

New motors are better, but bigger for the most part...

[Dave]

The Datsun A-series from B210/210 is about the same size and power and comes with aluminum head. Five speed gearboxes are available too.

 

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1203/5106179633_f5227668b2.jpg

[danilo]

that Datsun had some of my interest as a possible.

But I found it almost impossible to find *Anything* Datsun... beyond a 240Z these days.

Better luck hunting up an old Cortina... they at least sold more of those :-)

[kennyrayandersen]

So I'm slow...

 

OK, this is where I'm at. I bought a Buckland B3 which is being manufactured again in the UK by a place called Penguin Speed shop. Since the 1.3s are rare, and the 1.6 do have some support, I've opted for the Kent 1.6. The engine I bought was a later model 831C6015B34 - Service block - South African casting as mentioned by TheDingo8MyBaby.

 

The T-9 is evidently too big to fit, so I'm going with a 4-speed 'Rocket' type transmission. Unfortunately (depending on how you look at it), nothing else but the Kent engine will fit! I was hoping to use that new turbo 1 liter Ford (Ecoboost) but it is 6 inched too tall!!

 

Hopefully it will be boxed up and shipped within the next couple months and I hope to get cracking on it later in the year or the first part of next year. Thanks for the tips and info -- it was appreciated! Even though it's not a 7, I think it safe to say it's at least in the same spirit!! Cheers!

[Klasik-69]

The funny thing is how expensive these little motors are. I just saw an ad from GM performance division on their new Circle Track crate engine, the CT-525. It's an LS3 engine modified for running a carb and is rated at 525 HP, 471 lb/ft of torque. It likely only weighs a bit more than the Kent 1.6 L. Price MSRP $8,750. That works out to $16.67 per horsepower. Cosworth 290 HP engine at $19,000 works out to be $65.52 per horsepower. Yeah, I know, it won't fit in your car. But think about it, a bullet proof motor that you can run as hard as you want (if you can hold on), couple it with a tremec 6 speed which is also bullet proof, and for under $12,000 you have almost as much power as God. Intoxicating, isn't it ?

[Kitcat]

Kent 1.6L =260 lbs. Per the "engine weight" thread from a while back.