bsimon Posted April 1, 2007 Share Posted April 1, 2007 "Towing isn't to be taken lightly" Well said. Sorry, I wasn't implying that one should haul at 3 digit speeds. I was trying to make the point that trailer dynamics need to be carefully calculated to provide for vehicular stability. I guess better wording would have been appropriate. Single axle trailers are inherently unstable and require extra thought. Tongue weight becomes critical. Even with a perfectly tuned single axle towing setup, a drag axle blowout at speed can eat your rig post-haste. Many times there will be nothing you can do about it. Tandems don't react as violently in similar situations. Personally I won't have a single axle trailer anymore and I won't drive trucks equipped with super single tires either.(although DOT deems SS's to be perfectly safe) Just my $.02 worth... Now, back to our regular programming... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted April 1, 2007 Share Posted April 1, 2007 That's why I use fresh trailer-specific tires. Tongue weight can be fine-tuned by the position of the car on the trailer, too. It's all about choosing the best tool for the job, I suppose. A light single axle trailer is easier to tow with a smaller vehicle than a heavier dual axle setup, and at approximately 2000 lbs all up it's well within a safe range for a single 3500 lb axle and good tires. My primary tow vehicle is a Jeep Grand Cherokee with all the tow options and it's happy with my Seven trailer. It would not like our big dual axle enclosed race trailer at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bsimon Posted April 1, 2007 Share Posted April 1, 2007 "trailer-specific tires" V-important. Trailer tires have sidewall design considerations for safely transmitting weight to the road, same as truck tires. Car tires are simply not up to the task. I might add that trailer wheel balancing is often overlooked as well. Trailers need wheel balancing just like a car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
locostv8 Posted April 2, 2007 Share Posted April 2, 2007 That's why I use fresh trailer-specific tires. Tongue weight can be fine-tuned by the position of the car on the trailer, too. It's all about choosing the best tool for the job, I suppose. A light single axle trailer is easier to tow with a smaller vehicle than a heavier dual axle setup, and at approximately 2000 lbs all up it's well within a safe range for a single 3500 lb axle and good tires. My primary tow vehicle is a Jeep Grand Cherokee with all the tow options and it's happy with my Seven trailer. It would not like our big dual axle enclosed race trailer at all. FWIW I have an 04 GC Overland with trailer package. Towing an about 3500 lb trailer with no trailer brakes from Miami FL to Blacksburg VA cooked and warped the front rotors and I'm very easy on the brakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boxologist Posted April 2, 2007 Share Posted April 2, 2007 >thread on another forum with links and insight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted April 2, 2007 Share Posted April 2, 2007 FWIW I have an 04 GC Overland with trailer package. Towing an about 3500 lb trailer with no trailer brakes from Miami FL to Blacksburg VA cooked and warped the front rotors and I'm very easy on the brakes. Towing over the Colorado passes with my 2000-2500 lb setup hasn't caused any problems for me, but I always make sure to use engine braking when descending a pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R1 Seven Posted April 2, 2007 Share Posted April 2, 2007 I have a very good friend who races a vintage Saab that weights about 1700lbs. He tows it behind his Saab Aero with a custom built single axle trailer alot. It has no brakes, and he has no issues whatsoever with that setup. Just one more data point... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al N. Posted April 2, 2007 Author Share Posted April 2, 2007 AAAGGGHHHH...too much information, can't process! http://www.usa7s.com/aspnetforum/images/emoticons/confused5.gif I actually liked that one trailer in the link Boxologist provided...the "Serpent Express"...but it's as much as any full on aluminum one I could buy locally. Plus I bet that tarp top would take a BEATING. Al Navarro2007-04-02 08:23:13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
locostv8 Posted April 2, 2007 Share Posted April 2, 2007 The 99 to 04 GC has a bad history of warped front rotors. The next time mine cooks it will probably get Cobra PBRs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted April 2, 2007 Share Posted April 2, 2007 Yeah, my 2000 GC already cooked a set in 26,000 miles of driving around town, before it had ever seen a trailer. Didn't realize it was endemic to the breed, I thought it was just my girlfriend's driving http://www.usa7s.com/aspnetforum/images/emoticons/smile5.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
locostv8 Posted April 2, 2007 Share Posted April 2, 2007 NOPE. I have some thoughts on a fix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blami Posted April 2, 2007 Share Posted April 2, 2007 Hi Al, I just thought about it and I am pretty sure that I've towed my Caterham around 60,000 miles in the 13 years that I've had it (Pittsburgh to Lime Rock, VIR, Road Atlanta, Mid Ohio, Watkins Glen, Nelson Ledges, GingerMan, BeaveRun--usually 10 to 12 events/schools per year). I've had an open alum trailer (Trailex), with dual axles and surge brakes which I was able to pull with my company cars (Chevy Lumnia with the smallest 6 cyl engine). Total weight of Seven and trailer: 2000 lbs. I now have an enclosed trailer (Classic Trailer) with a 14 ft box and I tow this with my GMC Envoy (6 cyl. engine). This trailer also has dual axles and electric brakes. This was made by Classic as an enclosed motorcycle trailer and I had them modify it to my specs. Some general thoughts: the small, light open trailer is very easy to tow. It handles well and it was easy to back up. You could tow with the family sedan--the "tail would not wag the dog". The trailer was easy for me to move around by hand, in the paddock or at home. Problems: it's an open trailer and at least once a year I would be at some track with the following weather forecast: Thunderstorms, high winds and possibly damaging hail" Enclosed trailer: You have shelter and security. You have cabinets, an electric winch, a lawn chair, MORE STUFF. And more weight to pull. With a 14 foot trailer, I do not have a problem with "the tail waging the dog", even though my GMC Envoy is considered to be a mid-size SUV. Get a good hitch, one that allows you to put a little more tongue weight on it via torsion bars. Most importantly, whatever you do, break down and spend the money to buy a trailer that will do what you require of it, in a safe manner. Guys will spend thousands of dollars on Wheels/Tires and a few carbon fiber parts for their car and then they don't want to spend more than $1500 on a trailer---Get dual axles, get brakes on all 4 wheels, trailer tires only, and understand the difference between the various hitch models out there and get the right hitch for the job. Pay attention to the height of the hitch ball--if you don't know why, get proper advice from a good trailer dealer. Call me if you want to discuss any of this stuff in detail. Bart, 412 341 9565 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scannon Posted April 2, 2007 Share Posted April 2, 2007 the "Serpent Express"...but it's as much as any full on aluminum one I could buy locally. Plus I bet that tarp top would take a BEATING. I talked with the owner of the Serpent Express company today. They don't make the trailers, just the 'tent' part. They have several manufacturers they purchase the base trailers from and then build and install the tent. I like their concept. They are willing to make one for an existing trailer if the trailer is configured correctly - no stake pockets, removable fenders and a few other items. The company is based in Utah and I am going there in May anyway and will have him look at it and give me an estimate for adding the tent. Roughly about $1,900 plus any options you select. I sent him out on the web to have a look at the H&H aluminum trailer I am buying and he seemed to like it better than those they are already using. Problem is, their standard trailers are 12, 14 and 16 feet in length and the shortest H&H speedloader is 18'. We'll see how it pans out. If I decide to get one, I will have it on the trailer for the 7/7/7 event. Skip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al N. Posted April 3, 2007 Author Share Posted April 3, 2007 Bart-I'm sure I'll end up ponying up for some aluminum flatbed jobby when all is said and done. I guess a trip to my local trailer emporium is in order. Perhaps in a few weeks when I'm done with Easter and my last Dragon recon. BTW, are you sure we can't convince you to bring Pepper down in July? There's at least one other "track only" Seven coming. http://www.usa7s.com/aspnetforum/images/emoticons/wink5.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blami Posted April 3, 2007 Share Posted April 3, 2007 Hi Al, I'd love to be part of 7/7/7 but I will be at Mid-Ohio Racetrack on 7/4 & 5 making a bunch of Porsches look very slow. It's a dirty job but somebody has to do it. Bart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powderbrake Posted April 3, 2007 Share Posted April 3, 2007 I agree with blami, the enclosed trailer is a real advantage to getting there and back and staying dry. I also agree that dual wheels, electric brakes and a weight transfer hitch are important. You may need a larger SUV to pull a larger trailer. I have a Haulmark Kodiak 7 X 14 enclosed trailer with a ramp rear door. It has a side door (helps to tie down the car, and to reach stored items in front)and lots of room to haul tools and supplies. It cost me $4300,and I bought it new from the factory. Lots of these 7 x 14 "landscaper's" trailers with a drop down rear ramp are available on ebay. There is a ready market for it when you decide to sell it. Check the inside width.... on some trailers, the trailer wheels are partially into the cargo compartment. On mine, the trailer wheels are completely outside the cargo area, so I have the full width of the trailer inside. (72 1/2" which just fits my 68" wide car) Because the drop down ramp creates too steep an angle for the botttom of the car to clear the edge of the trailer, you will need to invest in a pair of "Rhino Ramps" at Wal Mart for about $30. These work perfectly, and there is no need to raise the front of the trailer to get the car on and off. I cut the "stops" off the top of the rhino ramps, and they fit under the rear ramp of the trailer, forming a ramp extension for the car wheels. The enclosed utility trailer is great for moving furniture and 4 x 8 sheets of plywood. In fact you will become the "guy with a trailer " to all your friends. Here's a couple pics. http://www.usa7s.com/forum/uploads/20070403_082624_DSC_0240_Small.JPG http://www.usa7s.com/forum/uploads/20070403_082754_DSC_0241_Small.JPG Here the rhino ramps tuck under the rear of the Ultralite http://www.usa7s.com/forum/uploads/20070403_083520_DSC_0239_Small.JPG Here , backing it out, I do not yet have the rhino ramps, and I am using wood blocks to lift the ramp to lower the angle into the trailer. Also note the trailer is a lot taller than you need. I got one with an extra 6" of height, as it was the only one I could get on short notice, when I needed the trailer. http://www.usa7s.com/forum/uploads/20070403_084404_DSCF2594_Small.JPG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al N. Posted April 3, 2007 Author Share Posted April 3, 2007 Jerry-Maybe I should cancel my reservations at Tapoco and sleep in your trailer? http://www.usa7s.com/aspnetforum/images/emoticons/biggrin5.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powderbrake Posted April 4, 2007 Share Posted April 4, 2007 Jerry-Maybe I should cancel my reservations at Tapoco and sleep in your trailer? http://www.usa7s.com/aspnetforum/images/emoticons/biggrin5.gif Al, you are welcome to share the space inside the trailer with my car. http://www.usa7s.com/aspnetforum/images/emoticons/lol.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al N. Posted May 3, 2007 Author Share Posted May 3, 2007 REVISITED... Dual axle vs. single? Treated wood floor vs. aluminum or steel floor? Do we need a beavertail and/or long ramps? --- I got some prices in for a seven-sized trailer...but want people's opinions on the above choices before sharing the quotes. Keep in mind that for my particular needs, I will be alternating use between the Seven and a Polaris Ranger (Golf Cart size ATV). FWIW, the prices aren't as low as I'd hoped. Makes getting a simple utility trailer look like a very good option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al N. Posted May 3, 2007 Author Share Posted May 3, 2007 REVISITED... Dual axle vs. single? Treated wood floor vs. aluminum or steel floor? Do we need a beavertail and/or long ramps? --- I got some prices in for a seven-sized trailer...but want people's opinions on the above choices before sharing the quotes. Keep in mind that for my particular needs, I will be alternating use between the Seven and a Polaris Ranger (Golf Cart size ATV). FWIW, the prices aren't as low as I'd hoped. Makes getting a simple utility trailer look like a very good option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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