Mondo Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 I know gun control is controversial... but we all should be able to agree that this is wrong. http://current.com/shows/viewpoint/videos/matt-taibbi-on-hsbc-settlement-i-think-even-people-on-wall-street-were-blown-away-by-the-result/ http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/blogs/taibblog/outrageous-hsbc-settlement-proves-the-drug-war-is-a-joke-20121213 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boxologist Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 I was disgusted when I heard about this during week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rikker Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 Mongo, I hope that gun control is not controversial much longer and that we have reached the tipping point for a total ban of guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedwagon Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 Guns are not the problem at all. Those who wish to commit mayhem would find a way and it is simple. I grew up in the mid west during the "zip gun" era in a sort of tough area. We made weapons from almost everything, there was a severe shortage of radio antennas. With a small camping propane tank a slightly intelligent person can commit more mayhem than with a gun, and a small co2 canister will make an air gun that is quite silent. What we do need to do is start holding people responsible for their actions and all of then including the Inron management types. I would favor greater use of the death penalty if we didn't murder so many innocent people with it. Ban guns and I for one will buy, steal, or make a fully auto silent one that uses either easily made or stolen ammo. No reason to be at the mercy of those who are armed like the poor Mexicans. Talk about gun control failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusaNostra Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 (edited) I can't wait to be lectured by someone or the administration responsible giving enormous assault weapons to the drug cartel .... ask the attorney general, he knows.... So.....Why? What's changed? Have guns changed, or have people changed? Edited December 16, 2012 by BusaNostra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rikker Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 But much of the rest of the world seems to function just fine with very strict gun laws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayseven Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 I think we have to make a distinction between guns for hunting/target shooting and collecting for the hell of it, and keeping a weapon to kill someone with. Most of the rest of the world doesn't have a weapons element in their constitution, that you Americans have interpreted as the right for the INDIVIDUAL to fight a foreign entity, using his assault rifle/pea shooter/whatever he keeps in the garage/basement/bedside table. I see your constitution differently, and read it as the right to COLLECTIVELY fight, which is kind of laudable. But I have no say in your country, and you will decide what to do in future, if anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slomove Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 (edited) I can't wait to be lectured by someone or the administration responsible giving enormous assault weapons to the drug cartel .... ask the attorney general, he knows.... So.....Why? What's changed? Have guns changed, or have people changed? Come on, stay on the topic. One is a big time botched government sting operation (where somebody should be held responsible) and the other one is preventing nutcases from shooting up little children. Bringing that up is for me a lame attempt to steer away from an undesired discussion. Normally I stay out of gun control discussions because that has become such a toxic subject that people just throw around buzzwords and get very aggressive. So there is little to gain but once a while i give my 2 cents. I would be O.K. with the 2nd amendment if it would apply to the arms that the authors of that amendment knew, i.e. flintlock rifles, pistols or swords. Dangerous enough but hard to use for a massacre. It baffles me how somebody can derive the right to own a semiautomatic weapon from a 200 year old text. And if so why stop there and not allow hand grenades or anti-aircraft guns. If there is a public agreement in this country that gun ownership is desirable so be it. I don't like it but can so far live with it (although the latest incident is really hard to bear). But IMO the public can decide just as well that this is stupid and need to be changed without violating the constitution. I am not confident this can be solved anytime soon. Guns are plentiful, no matter if there are new laws coming or not. The famous law abiding citizen can legally own all that fun hardware and 99.9999% of them will just use them for target shooting, hunting or because they have a small dick. And the remaining 0.0001% may sometimes snap and go kill a bunch of school children. Edited December 16, 2012 by slomove Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusaNostra Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 It's in the topic......accurately! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rikker Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 It will be very interesting to see if this latest depraved obscenity is enough to create any changes. After Columbine , Gifford and others there were similar outcries but nothing much has changed. It is obvious that most politicians to date have been afraid to touch this regardless of what they might mumble about; if this slaughter of innocents is not the tipping point then what is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceBowker Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 The 2nd amendment starts with, " A well regulated militia...". If I am not mistaken the Supreme Court decided that owning a gun had nothing to do with a well regulated militia and more or less just ignored that part. I would not have ignored that . Own a gun - be trained in a militia much like the National Guard. Maybe a 10 year stint or lifetime or as long as you own a gun other than hunting or target. Why did this mother of the shooter own an assault rifle? Are 3 weapons 2 too many? Was she part of a well regulated militia? She should have been. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Off Road SHO Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 No matter what laws you pass, only law abiding citizens will obey them. The wackos will not and they will continue to hunt for fame and notiriety at places where they know they won't be challenged; at least by anything more harsh than, "hey, you can't do that here!" If only it wasn't against the law to defend yourself at these places. That guy that started shooting up the mall in Oregon, how come he did not kill so many more? Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rikker Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 No matter what laws you pass, only law abiding citizens will obey them. The wackos will not and they will continue to hunt for fame and notiriety at places where they know they won't be challenged; at least by anything more harsh than, "hey, you can't do that here!" If only it wasn't against the law to defend yourself at these places. That guy that started shooting up the mall in Oregon, how come he did not kill so many more? Tom Of course people will break laws, that is why we have a judicial system. The point is here, not that anything will be perfect, but that the current system in not working. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestTexasS2K Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 It's a tragedy what happened on Friday. Those innocent kids lives cut short is a tragic situation for sure. I can't help but think of the other 1.2 million innocent kids that have their innocent lives cut short here in the USA every year. None of them die by a bullet fired by a crazy man. Instead they are volunteered up by a parent and have a educated doctor terminate their life. They get no presidential speeches or a decent burial. Yet it seems the ones that scream the most about how horrible guns are. Fight so vigoursly to keep the right to kill babies in the womb. There is a diminishing lack of respect for human life in this country and in 20 years it will be worse than now. I don't think banning guns will get you anywhere. Uk has very strict gun laws yet they still have murders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rikker Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 (edited) It's a tragedy what happened on Friday. Those innocent kids lives cut short is a tragic situation for sure. I can't help but think of the other 1.2 million innocent kids that have their innocent lives cut short here in the USA every year. None of them die by a bullet fired by a crazy man. Instead they are volunteered up by a parent and have a educated doctor terminate their life. They get no presidential speeches or a decent burial. Yet it seems the ones that scream the most about how horrible guns are. Fight so vigoursly to keep the right to kill babies in the womb. There is a diminishing lack of respect for human life in this country and in 20 years it will be worse than now. I don't think banning guns will get you anywhere. Uk has very strict gun laws yet they still have murders. What the hell does abortion choice have to do with the mass slaughter of innocents at school by a gunman with an assault rifle? How many times does this have to happen before you think things have to change, would you change your view point it it was a realtion/loved one or friend that was killed there on Friday? Although facts are obviously not your strong point here are a few for you : The UK gun murder rate last year was 14 versus almost 10,000.00 in USA, that is murder, not accident or suicide which would put it through the roof here.Most of the western world does very well without the 2nd Amendment, which if you happen to read it says : "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed".This was at a time when it took over a minute to load a musket and hopefully hitting something with it, try a mass murder with one of those and the only deaths would from laughing at you. http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_wit_fir-crime-murders-with-firearms http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2012/12/14/chart-the-u-s-has-far-more-gun-related-killings-than-any-other-developed-country/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate Should have expected as much when I saw "Texas". Edited December 18, 2012 by rikker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mondo Posted December 19, 2012 Author Share Posted December 19, 2012 Actually, the topic was Bank Officials not being brought to justice because they say it would bring down the financial market... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rikker Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 (edited) Mongo, I looked at a discussion that was on recently and wow.. do you recall this comment you made on the 13 th of this month, "While no one here as said this, I find it funny that when something bad happens the same person will say "it's not the gun it's the person" and "it's the drugs not the person. My belief is that it's the person on both. If you want to shoot someone or have the personality that craves an altered state of mind, you'll find a way... regardless of the law against it. So I'm pretty open on owning guns (not magazines). Though I do think a background check for all guns should be mandatory no matter where you buy it and I wouldn't decriminalize crack, heroin etc.. Guess I'm not a total libertarian" I would ban all guns, they are obscene and evil . How many guns in the USA have actually saved a life versus murder, suicide or accidental death, often involving children; and just how does the rest of the western world manage to get by without a gun for everyone. Edited December 19, 2012 by rikker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayseven Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 Are there any other controversial subjects we can bring up? This all has to end in a bad way: fraticide, as we slay each others' arguments, and offend as many people as we can. I find it all extremely sad, from beginning to end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mondo Posted December 20, 2012 Author Share Posted December 20, 2012 (edited) Rikker, I was talking about this thread "too big to jail".. that I started. My point was that gun control, abortion etc... are controversial , but bankers laundering millions of dollars of drug cartel's and terrorist's money and then not being prosecuted is something we all should be pissed about. Guess I should of left that first part off. As Ayseven observed, it is one of those arguments that everyone has an opinion but changes few minds. Edited December 20, 2012 by Mondo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crewst Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 (edited) Mongo, I looked at a discussion that was on recently and wow.. do you recall this comment you made on the 13 th of this month, "While no one here as said this, I find it funny that when something bad happens the same person will say "it's not the gun it's the person" and "it's the drugs not the person. My belief is that it's the person on both. If you want to shoot someone or have the personality that craves an altered state of mind, you'll find a way... regardless of the law against it. So I'm pretty open on owning guns (not magazines). Though I do think a background check for all guns should be mandatory no matter where you buy it and I wouldn't decriminalize crack, heroin etc.. Guess I'm not a total libertarian" I would ban all guns, they are obscene and evil . How many guns in the USA have actually saved a life versus murder, suicide or accidental death, often involving children; and just how does the rest of the western world manage to get by without a gun for everyone. Why stop there? Ban everything that can possibly cause harm. Then magically, no harm will come to anyone. :banghead: Read some history about the Constitution, Bill of Rights, founding, etc. Maybe you'll learn something. http://www.justfacts.com/guncontrol.asp http://gunowners.org/just-for-skeptics.htm Edited January 23, 2013 by crewst Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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