Brunton StalkerXL #23 Build

[jevs]

The purpose of these measurements is to make sure you have room for the throw out bearing to compress and still have clearance when the clutch is engaged and also to make sure the throw out bearing does not require too much pedal movement before it releases the clutch.

The best thing to do is to take multiple measurements in different spots and on the clutch side to different fingers also. Take these results and average them and then subtract averaged B (trans side) from averaged A (engine side) to get the difference.

I ended up at .2208". However, some spots would be lower and some spots higher before the averaging. According to the instructions, this is good for no spacer (if you ignore that some of the averaged in distances would be slightly higher on their own). According to the SPEC clutch instructions, the distance should be .175"-.225". If your lower than .175, then you have a problem that a spacer cannot solve.

One thing I found that confused matters more is that the video link they give you on the same paper says .250 is the max. I called SPEC and they would not really give me a concrete answer. It was like "it's your car, you have to decide, we don't want to be responsible". We did agree that I had two options...no spacer, or get a different spacer. The spacer they give is about .116" thick and this puts you way outside on the low range, so it cannot be used. It would be ok at first, but at some point as the clutch wears, you will end up with preload. As the clutch wears, the pressure plate fingers move closer to the transmission and reduce this gap your measuring.

Here is that video

 

I did not like being on the edge of the tolerance and they would not tell me it would really work well up to .250 like the video says. I also did some research and found that other clutch manufacturers do not spec this high. So, since I cannot use their spacer and I was on the edge, I decided to machine my own spacer and just put it where I want it.

 

By the way, the Brunton install video recommends to put the spacer in. I would say measure your specific setup to make sure. I know toedrag and I both got measurements in the "no spacer" range. I was just too far on one end for my liking.

 

Another benefit of making my own spacer is that the one SPEC gives you has large square notches. This leaves a lot of area around the bolt unsupported. Picture of theirs attached.

Edited February 22, 2015 by jevs

[jevs]

I found some suitable aluminum plate in my metal bin. I just hacked it off in the horizontal position of my band saw real quick so it was kind of roundish.

The hard part was figuring out a good way to hold it so I could still machine it. I ended up drilling a hole and using a machined spacer I had laying around. I bolted this spacer to my plate and grabbed that with the lathe.

I then faced off the first side. By the way this was a good excuse to play with my new lathe I don't think I could go without a DRO now.

I had to do some various trick to be able to hold the part as I processed it. Once I got the other side down pretty far, it was getting thin and a bit flexy and chattering some. I got it as close as I could and then cut the OD and bored the center hole. I did find that one of the faces of my chuck jaw was about .002" lower than the others. This made worse chatter due to the gap there. I am going to find out if this is in spec or not and get a replacement if it isn't (Chinese stuff for you ...sigh)

Due to the flexing, I spent quite a bit of time sanding and measuring and perfecting the thickness by hand with various sanding blocks and grits etc. I got it all within .001" or less with a target of .0350".

You can see that it hugs the bolts much nicer now.

I put the spacer in and made multiple measurements and averaged them. I now have a result that is .1882". I am very happy with that. My slave won't have to come out too far before it starts pressurizing and I have enough room for the disc to get used up without getting preload before it is worn out.

 

Long day just to make a spacer, but no one sells one this size anyway that I could find.

Edited February 22, 2015 by jevs

[jevs]

And here is all that stuff bolted on the transmission. I used OEM bolts for the slave cylinder. The part number is 11516424.

[jevs]

The bell housing to transmission allen head bolts came with the bell housing and transmission. I did not get them at first, but then they sent them after I called. They use a real thick lock washer.

I bent the breather tube bracket just a little so that the tube and breather had plenty of room. The way it was at first it would have been vibrating against the transmission possibly making an annoying noise later.

The transmission and motor went together like butter.

[jevs]

I ordered covers for the right and left side of the bell housing. Brunton does not use these, but I wanted to put them on just to keep crud out. It was a bit of a guessing game on which ones would work.

I ordered 92262148 for the drivers side. It fits good and with no issues.

You do have to tap the holes 6mmx1 on both sides. They come drilled the correct size, but untapped.

I did some calling around awhile back and got the right part number for the bolts that hold the covers. I am kind of a stickler for using the OEM bolt when I can. The part number for this is 12560226. You can see they have an over size built in washer that helps to not damage the plastic when tightening them down.

For the starter side, I ordered part 92169247. This one required trimming of the hole to fit my starter. Maybe the one toedrag bought may fit with no trimming, I am not sure? Either way, it is not a big deal to trim it, but bolting on with no mod may be preferred.

http://www.usa7s.net/vb/showthread.php?9868-Brunton-Stalker-XL-22-Build&p=90446#post90446

I test fit the starter, but took it back off for the motor install.

[jevs]

The motor mounts I got are the exact brand and PN as the ones in the Brunton video. I guess it is luck of the draw, but I did have to grind off the ears on mine.

I also think the punch press they use for the mounting holes wore out about 10 years ago. I recommend grinding the bottom of the mounts to git rid of the big burrs. These will keep the mounts from sliding around for easy positioning and gouge the heck out of your finish on final assembly.

I also trimmed the transmission mount flanges as per the Brunton video. This has to be done for the T56 Magnum.

The motor went in no problem. You do not have to remove the steering shaft. The video recommends removing the brake lines in the front at the T fitting, but I don't think that would have been needed for the XL. There is tons of room in front of the motor.

I did not follow the instructions on the video for trimming the nub off the bell housing because they were putting it in a regular M-spec and I saw on some picture I took of an XL that it still had the nub. Well, as luck would have it, it turns out the nub had to be trimmed. It was touching. Luckily I was able to just undo the motor mounts and swing the motor over enough to trim it. There is only around 1/8" or a little better of clearance on the drivers side in a couple spots.

Edited February 23, 2015 by jevs

[jevs]

I had the same issue with the bolts for the driveshaft as toedrag. The head interferes with the U joint because they are too long. The first picture is what you get with the kit.

The second picture is what I bought instead. Since I was going to have to cut the bolts anyway, I went ahead and got some with a longer shoulder so it would have more shoulder in the differential flange. Not necessarily needed, but I was ordering some other stuff from BelMetric anyway.

I also added washers under the heads and purchased flanged grade 8 nylock nuts.

 

BH12X60 - 12mm x 60mm Bolts

WF12YLW - 12mm Washers

NNFH12YLW - Nylock Flange Nuts

 

I cut them down and then weighed the assemblies for the heck of it. Only one was .01 oz. off from the others, so I shaved a little off and they are right on. I doubt this was necessary, but what the heck it was only a few minutes.

 

Everything went in and bolted together fine once the bolts were modified. You can put the driveshaft in from the top if you want.

Edited February 26, 2015 by jevs

[jevs]

Started working on the exhaust. The headers went on with no issues. The stock bolts are being reused. The ones that came with the headers are not as good. From the pictures I found, Brunton also uses the stock bolts.

I used the stock gaskets that came off the crate motor just to protect the head. I will use the gaskets that came with the headers on final assembly.

The side pipes are turning into a little but more of a challenge. I was told to try for 1/2" gap between the body and the muffler. This is no problem on the drivers side. The passenger side naturally hanging wants to be very close to the body, but I think I will be able to finesse it out.

 

The bigger issue I have with the side pipes is the mounting method. The strap is just supposed to bolt through the aluminum floor and use a piece of hose as a rubber washer I guess. I am worried this will cause problems after some time of use. I am going to try to come up with a better isolated mount and try to keep the hardware from being much below the floor. I know a lot of guys have issues with side pipes on other cars and I want to minimize those headaches before they occur, if they would even occur. I don't know if or when it could cause a leak or crack, but I know it can be better, so might as well do it now.

 

I started another thread on it just to keep this one more about the actual build than figuring stuff and brainstorming ideas.

http://www.usa7s.net/vb/showthread.php?10339-Side-exhaust-mounts

 

The side pipes do appear to have small cats in them if anyone was wondering.

No hardware came for the clamps. I purchased some stainless 2.5" 3/8-16 bolts and nylock nuts. I will put anti-seize on them during final assembly to lessen the chance that they will gall up and need to be cut off if ever removed.

Edited February 26, 2015 by jevs

[jevs]

I received all of my parking brake parts. I will need to order the cables once I figure out how long they need to be.

 

From Summit (I highly recommend getting them to price match. They matched reputable eBay seller for a nice savings).

XEHB7000F Lokar Emergency Hand BrakeBrake, Midnight, Black Powdercoat Steel, Floor Mount, 11.5 in. Handle

EHB-7001 Lokar Emergency Brake Warning Indicator Switch Kit

X70EHBF Lokar Emergency Hand Brake Boot, Black Naugahyde Boot, Floor Mount, Includes Black Boot Ring

From IPSCO

IPS080-R Mechanical Parking Brake Caliper - Right Hand Pull (Made for 24mm thick rotor)

IPS080-L Mechanical Parking Brake Caliper - Left Hand Pull (Made for 24mm thick rotor)

IPS080-BK Optional Caliper Mount Bracket Set

IPS080-CB1 Optional Cable Bracket Set (Modified with 1/2"-20 threaded hole)

From controlcables.com

BEQ-EZ-2 Emergency Brake Equalizer Bar

B-E-2-8 Bolt On Brake Bracket (DOUBLE) 1/2 Hole

 

The IPSCO calipers are nicely made. They shipped quick. I looked high and low and the only other viable option I found were from Hispec that would fit this wide of a rotor and they took too long to get me the specs. Their website was not working right. I had already ordered the IPSCO. However, if your researching, you may want to check those out also.

 

I will have the cables made by controlcables.com when I figure out what length. I am hoping having them made might actually be cheaper than the universal style. The other advantage is that nothing has set screws into the cable and I won't have to modify them myself. The down side is that you have to get them the right length in one try and you won't have the actual cable to use to figure it out.

[jevs]

I have spent a good bit of time working on the parking brake bracket design. I think I got it done now. I just have to figure out how to fixture it up and learn how to cut on my CNC mill so I can make it.

 

I had to reverse engineer the spindle to better figure out fitment. That took a lot of time. I plan to attach my bracket using two of the hub mounting holes. This worked out very nicely for perfect placement of the caliper on the rotor. IPSCO was nice enough to give me the dimensions needed (their picture has wrong rotor size for me, but the calcs and dims are good). I just plugged all that in as reference lines on my drawings.

 

By the way Geomagic design is a very nice program. I have been using it for awhile. It is very similar to Solidworks, but much more affordable...if that is what you want to call it. It is still expensive for the full blown version with all the goodies. It used to be called Alibre before it was bought out by 3D Systems. It spits out nice 3D PDF's which is handy to share if you want to show a design to someone. It lets you rotate it around, zoom in and out, etc. (attached at bottom if you want look). You can even put it in different views like transparent, wireframe etc.

 

The plan is to machine it out of 3/8" thick 6061 per IPSCO's recommendation.

 

I also got one of my options for exhaust mounting that I am looking into. The snapper bushings actually have a little more give and are a little softer than I expected. I was expecting that they might be as hard as those polyurethane bushings, but they seem softer. This is making it harder to pick vs the rubber isolated ones I ordered. I have not received those yet.

 

One advantage to these red ones is that even if they wear out, the exhaust is still captured by a bolt. It might be banging around, but it won't be free. If the rubber ones rip, they can become free.

Spindle & Caliper Bracket.pdf

Edited February 28, 2015 by jevs

[jevs]

Great success! I spent the last couple weeks learning how to work CAM, create tool paths, and operate my CNC mill. Here is my finished parking brake bracket design. I need to tweak the CAM program a little to optimize the cutting operations, but overall I am very happy with my first CNC milled part. It fit perfect on the first try. I spent a lot of time figuring out what size holes for the bolts and all that for a very tight fit with zero slop. The radius of the curves and distance of the caliper from the rotor and stuff are exact to IPSCO specs.

 

Fastenal is getting me some longer bolts for the hub bolts and new bolts for the caliper side. I just found those nasty bolts to test fit.

 

This opens up a lot of new fabrication possibilities for me! Now I need to get this car done so I can build my next two CNC machines I have planned I designed a CNC router that I plan to build from scratch next and I need to retrofit my lathe to CNC maybe. I have all the parts and the design is done. I just need more time

Edited March 19, 2015 by jevs

[toedrag]

That's greatness! You should probably plan on making more of those for future Stalker builders :cheers:

[xcarguy]

Great success! I spent the last couple weeks learning how to work CAM, create tool paths, and operate my CNC mill. Here is my finished parking brake bracket design. . . . . . This opens up a lot of new fabrication possibilities for me! . . . .

 

jevs,

 

Very impressive! :cheers:

[jevs]

Parking brake brackets finally done. The caliper brackets from IPSCO have RH and LH carved into them. I actually have them mounted opposite right now. I am not sure why this would matter, but I am asking IPSCO just to be sure. I just think this might make it easier to route the cable. I am not set on this yet though. They can be swapped to either side and line up correctly with the rotor.

I still have a lot to learn about CNC machining. I suspect I am going to end up bogging down on the exhaust bracket too. Now I am probobly going to want to make something nice and waste a gob more time

 

EDIT: IPSCO says it is fine to mount them on either side. He said they swap them all the time depending if they need the cable to go up or down.

Edited March 22, 2015 by jevs

[jevs]

Ok, so I totally changed my mind on the exhaust and decided to go a simpler way. I was not liking some things about the way the other idea was going to work out. I needed to move it back to get the grommets farther away from the exhaust. Then I was going to have to make a new piece to weld to the exhaust, and it was getting too big and ugly.

 

So, I went back to a more basic idea....

First, I was never happy with the difference of how close the exhaust was wanting to be pulled on the passenger side.

This was part of the reason for the first exhaust idea, I could force the exhaust over a little and just have the grommets under a bit of pressure.

 

Instead I decided to get out the portapower and make some "adjustments"

I was able to pull the passenger side and drivers side and get the pipes right where I wanted them. The passenger side needed the most. This allows me to use a single grommet that is in a pretty relaxed position without it holding pressure on the exhaust to put it where it needs to be.

 

I put the braces between the frame and the header to help alleviate stress on the flange and bolts. I was also very careful not to pull hard enough to move something that wasn't supposed to move.

Edited April 19, 2015 by jevs

[jevs]

Now that I was going to use a single snapper grommet, I wanted to get as far out towards the pipe as I could. I also did not want a bolt through the floor with the head out in the way.

I drilled the frame and made some spacers. Welded them in. Now the exhaust can be bolted up and everything is tucked in the frame area nice and clean.

Edited April 19, 2015 by jevs

[xcarguy]

Fantastic! :cheers:

[jevs]

Exhaust is done.....finally. Everything is nice and straight and nothing is being pulled or in a bind! I got as much space as you could possibly get between the body panel and the exhaust. This should be reliable and simple.

 

I do need to get a tad longer bolt. These are just shy of reaching the locking part of the nut.

Edited April 19, 2015 by jevs

[jevs]

Jevs, I also had some of the same exhaust issues. I had an issue with the two sides being asymmetrical. I actually bullied them by putting an aluminum bat in the collector. Not advisable because it egged out the collector, which I then fixed.. It looks like you have worked through the issue well. I also do not care for how low my exhaust hangs. It is lower than yours appears, and is a hang up point when loading on the trailer.

 

What are those red bushings between the chassis and muffler bracket? I did some searching for them originally, and ended up using some poly end link bushings I had in the tool box. I lucked out and they didn't start on fire... Yet... I'm assuming someone makes a part, specific for this purpose.

 

I also had some quality issues. It seems they burned through the tubes when welding up the collectors (not Brunton's modifications). My first race, the exhaust was popping, and there was white residue on the headers. Once I figured out that fresh air in the headers was letting the waste gasses burn prior to the cats, I welded up the holes I could find. I still think there are some in the hidden welds inboard on the collector.

 

I may try to start over on them. I asked Brunton what the application they source the headers for. I think they are small block ford (maybe Cobras?) and they put on the LS engine flange. Again, the weld issues are not from Brunton's mods. It just appears the over-seas welders were not on their game that day for Headman....

 

This might allow me to raise, the exhaust also.

 

The grommets are called Snapper Grommets and they are made for exhaust. Make sure you get the silicone ones. They do offer them in black rubber or something, but those don't last as long.

 

The ones I got are from Jegs. Part number 309025 and claim to be "High-Temperature Red Silicone".

You can also find them in other places. The blue ones are also supposed to be silicone also. Not sure if they are better or not, but they claim to be the "best". I think they are all made by the same place because even the jegs ones say "Snapper" on them. If I ever have the red ones wear out, I will try the blue just to see.

 

A few sources:

 

http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS-Performance-Products/555/309025/10002/-1?parentProductId=1528509

http://stainlessworks.net/grommet

http://www.jegs.com/i/Stainless-Works/842/EXGRO/10002/-1

https://www.welderseries.com/blog/online-store/exhaust-grommet/

Edited April 19, 2015 by jevs

[subtlez28]

Jevs, I also had some of the same exhaust issues. I had an issue with the two sides being asymmetrical. I actually bullied them by putting an aluminum bat in the collector. Not advisable because it egged out the collector, which I then fixed.. It looks like you have worked through the issue well. I also do not care for how low my exhaust hangs. It is lower than yours appears, and is a hang up point when loading on the trailer.

 

What are those red bushings between the chassis and muffler bracket? I did some searching for them originally, and ended up using some poly end link bushings I had in the tool box. I lucked out and they didn't start on fire... Yet... I'm assuming someone makes a part, specific for this purpose.

 

I also had some quality issues. It seems they burned through the tubes when welding up the collectors (not Brunton's modifications). My first race, the exhaust was popping, and there was white residue on the headers. Once I figured out that fresh air in the headers was letting the waste gasses burn prior to the cats, I welded up the holes I could find. I still think there are some in the hidden welds inboard on the collector.

 

I may try to start over on them. I asked Brunton what the application they source the headers for. I think they are small block ford (maybe Cobras?) and they put on the LS engine flange. Again, the weld issues are not from Brunton's mods. It just appears the over-seas welders were not on their game that day for Headman....

 

This might allow me to raise, the exhaust also.

Edited April 19, 2015 by subtlez28