bigdog

Dhubbard422 The only issue you might have is that although the tdi does have a tow capacity of 1000Lbs. VW USA gives the DSG a zero tow rating. Again, in Europe the DSG has the same rating as the manual. I could do as klasic-69 recommended. And just sod it all and get the VW anyway. But I won't give them the pleasure of getting one cent from me. So I'll go the way of the M-B.

Don't worry about a bit of back and forth, It's how we learn. As long as it remains civil. My main contention is that for those of us that do not have a huge load to haul (which to be fair is most people) have very little choice in America for buying a new vehicle to do a little bit of towing. 1. VW sells the Touareg in the US and in Europe While VW doesn't sell many Touareg's in either market. They don't sell in Europe for very different reasons than in America. 2. VW sells the Jetta TDI in the US and in Europe Well they do and they don't. Yes they are the same car. But VW USA puts white out over the tow capacity on the US brochure. The two are very different markets. you would have been able to answer your own question had you knowledge of the European market. You made the simple mistake of assuming the two markets are the same because they sell the same vehicle's in both. The big difference in the two markets are the customers. In Europe MOST folks will at most pull a small camper of about 1000-1300Kgs. or 2200-3000Lbs. Most only own one vehicle that must also be cheap to feed when doing normal day to day transport. In America. MOST people will also only pull up to about 3000Lbs. But we want a much higher rating than that "just in case" Most own more than one car. And don't mind being in debt to maintain two or more cars. That's probably the key to all this. We in America want specialized equipment. So we will buy a truck for tow duty, A family sedan for commuting. As a result the American market has become an all or nothing market. Here's a challenge: Name a US market CAR that can pull my seven on a small trailer. Max would be about 2200-2500Lbs. That gets about the MPG of the Jetta. I'll make it easy for you. You won't find one. In Europe there are 3 choices in the VW line alone, M-B has the C-class diesel, BMW has the 320D, 520D. Opal (GM) has several car models that runs the diesel that Chevy uses in the cruze, Audi (VW) has the A4 with the VW TDI engine. Ford has several car models. Seat (VW) has several cars models. As does Skoda (also VW), Peugeot, Citroen. They all are rated to tow. The US market wasn't so different than the European market till recently. Look back at old photos of Americans in the 50'-60's going on holiday pulling a camper with the family sedan. That was quite normal.

Welcome to the forum. As you have an historic original, be sure and also join the lotus seven club out of Brittain. They tend to be geared more towards the original end of the seven enthusiast clubs. And will be a very valuable resource in tracking down scarce parts and specifications.

the same answer applies to you as it does to RNR's post. Your reply would make perfect sense were it not that VW engineers already allow the structurally identical Jetta chassis (the German Jetta's come from Mexico) in Europe to pull 3000Lbs then drop it back to 1000 for the US clearly shows that the US cars can pull the same load as the European cars. And that's the point I have been making all along. It's clearly down to marketing. http://www.usa7s.net/vb/images/buttons/edit.gif

Because we are retiring and want a car we can keep for a long time, not spend a fortune buying and fueling. And not lose the drive train warranty. All because of a marketing ploy to dupe the easily dupe American's.

But again, my issue is with the double standard that EVERY auto company in the US market displays. Even if a trailer has brakes they still say verboten. I just don't like that for the 80% of the time that I won't be pulling a trailered 7. I have to put up with 10MPG less fuel economy as well has having to shill out 10K more because it's an SUV. As the wife will retire soon and I'm already retired. We have no desire to have both a tow vehicle & a fuel efficient car for when we aren't towing.

Your reply would make perfect sense were it not that VW engineers already allow the structurally identical Jetta chassis (the German Jetta's come from Mexico) in Europe to pull 3000Lbs then drop it back to 1000 for the US clearly shows that the US cars can pull the same load as the European cars. And that's the point I have been making all along. It's clearly down to marketing.

Hydraulic.

Most of the trailers in Europe have surge brakes on them. I was of the same opinion as the majority that have posted here. I.E. If one tows anything it has to be a truck of some sort. But after moving to Europe I soon saw that this wasn't quite true. The call to VW & their honest answers to my questions confirmed that it was marketing due to VW's understanding of the "it must be big" Amercan attitude and not the inability of VW's car's to tow that resulted in the USA models having a smaller by 2000lb tow rating. And even after posting what VW said, some still posted as if I just made the whole thing up or that they knew better than the VW company as to what their cars can pull. Bottom line is that I think that the auto companies are doing the American public a disservice in that a person such as me that needs a new car and who will not be towing all the time, and will not be pulling a heavy load is forced to buy a much less fuel efficient vehicle to keep the drive train warranty valid. I asked VW if they would be bringing a Tiguan TDI from Europe to the USA. She said probably but not till at least 2016. So at least there is some change on the horizon. In the mean time M-B is the only game in town for towing and good economy. Hopefully BMW will follow suit.

Turboeric, Nice dodge. And what of the statement from VW?

Has anybody heard what I said about what VW told me? Funny lot we American's. I have info strait from the horses mouth. And we still insist that it isn't so. VW told me on the phone that it was primarily down to marketing. The crux of the conversation was that Amercan's expect that a tow vehicle needs to be big. VW said that by allowing the same tow ratings in America as the identical car in Europe. They would undercut sales of the bigger profit margine SUV's and so has no reason to change. Yes I know. I've heard all the talk of only towing up to a certain percentage of the tow vehicles weight. Depends I suppose. My Kenworth W900L weighed 18k yet I could legally pull 62k behind it. And even though my truck was designed to do this. It was no less susceptible to spitting a trailer off in an aggressive move as the type of towing that we are talking about here.

I can tell you as I currently live in Europe (Germany) and have for the past 3 1/2 years. It's impossible to judge by the soot levels coming out the back of cars as to whether they are diesel or not. I really can't remember seeing any soot other than an ancient M-B car. Diesel here is 1.32 Euro per litre=$7.08 per gallon. E-10 regular petrol is 1.44 Euro per litre=$7.74 per gallon. 98 octane petrol is 1.53 Euro per litre=$8.23. I'm one of the lucky ones. The wife and I have a ration allowance of 400 litres per car per month and we pay the US price for petrol or diesel on the military bases or at ESSO stations in Germany. Once we leave Germany, we have to pay full market price. Of course in the states diesel can be higher. But remember, Most detractors of diesel always quote the price of the lowest grade petrol. If your like me and own a BMW saloon car. then you haven't used regular for a long time.

On this car the color combo doesn't help. The body panels inside the rear wing need to be painted black. Also, perhaps the factory supplied rear wings are made in one radius only and can't be mounted any lower either. And since folks have over time have gone to 10 series tires these days, There's going to be some space. I imagine that to buy a super big 22" wheel to fill the space the width and off set wouldn't work.

I didn't know Terry either as I'm new to the forum, So my opinion of him is neutral with one caveat. When one is the OP of a thread. It does not denote ownership of said thread. However, If the thread gets way, way off topic and or gets abusive, Then it's the job of the moderators to move the diversion to another area or delete it. I personally find it very hard to blather on without a variance in topic. Unless we start posting in the manner of tweets (140 characters max per post). A monochromatic discussion of a subject might work in a courtroom or a boardroom but not on the internet. It's natural human behavior to meander while talking among ourselves.

Didn't mean to start a clash of VW's. But to repeat. VW USA Hq told me directly that the car vs SUV towing difference was in fact a matter of marketing. There might be a lawyer factor in there somewhere. Yet I can't help but wonder why VW wouldn't have said that straight away to not make themselves look bad. The origin of my thread was simply stating that my original hunch that the issue with US tow ratings had to do with marketing & VW's desire to make more profit from the American penchant for overdoing things more than it had to do with the vehicles actual ability to tow. This created the frustrating situation that in America the only vehicle I can get with a tow rating is an SUV/truck which I don't really want. Plus the fact that I need to spend 10k more & lose 8-9MPG simply because of this North American attitude.

The Bronco's were certainly suffering from something. The defensive front line of the Seahawks were just far to fast off the ball and were crowding an immobile QB. Give Peyton just a very little more time/ room and things would have been far more exciting. Might not have changed the outcome though. But would have been a better game to watch.

This is certainly not meant as an insult Kitcat. While I do very much appreciate the info on your good ownership experience with your VW. It must be stated that I'm a retired enlisted Air force guy. Not daddy War-bucks. I hope you can see & understand why I'm a bit frustrated with my options in the USA. We have gone from a $26,000 Jetta TDI that is able and authorized to pull the seven if I was to stay in Europe. To a Touareg that has a $51,000 Base price, All the way up to the mid to upper 60's optioned out that gets 12-14MPG towing. Half what the Jetta gets. In the end the wife and I will be ordering a M-B GLK 250 Bluetec 4matic for $36,500 with the military discounts and a few options, No sales tax, And free shipping from Germany to the east coast when we return stateside in 2015.

What's even worse is that as I'm in Germany. I had to stay up all night (it's 4:30 AM right now) to watch another uninteresting superbowl. At least the play-offs were of higher quality. Baseball is so much better.

At least one team bothered showing up for the game. I guess I'm lucky though. While I'm a Denver fan, I'm also a Washington state resident. So I was good either way. I just wished there had been two teams in the game.

The thing is Klasik, VW said to me directly that both the German and US model Jetta's are made in the Mexico plant & are structurally the same. What irks me is the fact that all these companies brag about how Green they are trying to be. Yet artificially axe their cars tow rating to PREVENT sales of an economic tow car specifically to push one into way more car than one needs. Which is maddening. I could understand if the EU Jetta also had the same 1000Lb tow rating as the US model. It's the same with virtually every manufacturer, They all deflate the towing capabilities of their cars in order to bolster the sales of oversized & overpriced SUV's. I'll be into the M-B for about 10K more (with the 5k military discount from M-B) than the Jetta & get 10MPG less. Just what the wife & I needed just as we retire, a higher payment & fuel & insurance bills. At least M-B stepped up to the plate and said you can have an SUV that can tow & get far greater economy than all other tow capable SUV's in the US market. Of course part of the problem the manufacturers have is us in the good ole USA is the following. I was reading a review on the GLK Bluetec diesel. The folks doing the test liked it. And guess what the biggest issue that most of the posters in the comments section had. IT'S NOT FAST was the over whelming whine from the Americans. I think the problem with the scenario you cited is that it's usually the driver going to fast for conditions that causes problems. And is not restricted to small tow vehicles. Having lived in South Dakota for a very long time. I have seen the invincible rednecks in their cummins pickups with trailer attached doing 80MPH in 40-50MPH crosswinds. A trailer can blow over just as easily behind a big truck as a small one. I know, I almost had it happen while driving my Kenworth W900 pulling an empty FedEx trailer. I saw about 2-3Ft of daylight under the trailer tire. Yikes!!

I wasn't meaning to say he was a German. Truth be told, Even though the Germans are excellent all around drivers. They do display a totally reckless disregard for lane discipline. It really is baffling how bad the Germans are about cutting curves. In the 3.5 years I've lived here. I have been in more near head on misses due to oncoming traffic being in my lane in a curve than the previous 37 years of my driving experience in the USA. I like staying in my lane while going fast. It's the point of the seven or any other sports car for that mater. It's supposed to be all about the corners.:driving:

I see he drives like a German. Cutting across the centerline even when driving slowly. I kind of like that car though.

An update about trailers and tow vehicles. I have been looking for an economical tow vehicle for my seven. Have been looking at the Passat TDI. According to VW Europe the tow capacity is 1600Kgs. In America the same Passat from the same Mexican factory is rated at 450Kgs. I called VW USA HQ on Friday and asked are the Eu and US spec the same cars with regards to how the body assembly is built. They said yes. I then asked why the disparity in the tow ratings. The answer I got was very honest & candid. The VW rep said that because of the tax structure for autos & the size of the roads in Europe. Most folks do not buy SUV's there. I then asked if the US spec Passat CAN tow but VW just doesn't allow it. Yes they said as it would interfere with sales of the very popular SUV's. And if one did tow with a new Passat the warranty would be null and void. Finally an honest answer & it was what I suspected all along. MARKETING to the not very smart size matters Americans. I also called BMW as the 328 diesel wagon in Germany can pull 1600Kgs. BMW USA told me that even though the EU & US cars are built the same. The reason that BMW will not allow towing with the US model is because the federal DOT said it's illegal. What a crock of s**t. In the end, The wife and I will be ordering a M-B GLK 250 Bluetec diesel. Kudos to VW for at least being honest.

Found this over at Blat Chat. I added the text for dramatic effect. Many decades ago Luigi wanted to build a home. He thought this might be a good spot, As he would always go to this very place as a small boy to ponder at length about how that huge lone boulder ended up in the field. Now he knows. [/url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-25975251

Count me has a con. But to each their own. If one does put a V8 in a seven, It should be of the flat plane variety. There's nothing wrong with a cross plane V8. I just don't care for the sound because of spending so many years in South Dakota having to listen to all those horrid H-D's every August, I simply just don't care for the potato-potato sound any more. I've always liked the smooth sound of an inline 6. Plus I think the extra weight just makes it more difficult to get the handling back to what it was with a lighter engine.