toedrag

Still waiting on the transmission :toetap05: Started working on the fuel system, but ran into some questions for Brunton. In the meantime, I've been looking into the PCV system and other unknown bits on the engine. Brunton advocates deleting the PCV System, but since I'm not comfortable with that idea, I'll keep it and will add 1 or 2 catch cans. More on catch cans later... I made the following picture, more to remind myself of what things are once I have forgotten about them, and figured others may find it useful: Below is the front of the engine as it comes from GMPP, minus the water pump, which I removed in advance of having the AN16 bung welded on. http://www471.pair.com/stalkerv/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=27707&g2_serialNumber=1 Starting on the top left with the 3/8 spigot labeled "PCV 'Intake' ". This port normally connects to a tube that goes to the Air Intake path, after the air has passed through the MAF sensor, but before the throttle body. Below the PCV Intake is the Evap or Purge solenoid. This valve would normally connect to a charcoal canister for fuel tank venting, where its purpose is suck the vapors from the charcoal canister and send them through the combustion process. Since the Brunton venting system is a coil of hose behind the tank, there is no charcoal canister to mess with, which means I'll delete the Evap solenoid and associated plastic tube. Moving to the right, the plastic tube from the Evap solenoid connects to a 5/16" nipple on the right side of the Throttle Body. The important part is that it's behind the throttle body valve, which means it's a constant vacuum (I think). Since I don't believe I have use for a spare vacuum port, I'll cap this with a vacuum cap. [EDIT: Or maybe this is where the brake booster vacuum hose will connect?] Lastly is the coolant steam tube, which allows coolant vapor to burp out of the block and will terminate into the coolant surge tank. ---- On the topic of the PCV System & Catch cans....wow, talk about politics & religion. There are some strong opinions on both side of the debates between Keeping vs Deleting the PCV System, PCV system changes, Catch Can designs, etc. It's kind of mind boggling, actually. A useful video on the general function of a PCV System is here: As stated, I plan to retain the PCV system and to deal with the unwanted reverse flow of oil with catch cans. Interestingly, in the LS3, there appears to be some choice in how the 'Dirty' air exits the block. In the GMPP LS3 crate engine, the default method for expelling Dirty air is to use the port under the Intake Manifold on the valley cover, which if I understand things (debatable), is a restrictor orifice b/c there is no traditional PCV valve in the LS3 PVC system. The other method is where the Dirty air exits the rear port of the driver's side valve cover (which is capped by default from GMPP). I'm not sure which is the better of the two, but it seems that the restrictor can become clogged as a worst-case scenario. But, I suspect that a clogged restrictor probably doesn't occur with regular oil changes on a healthy engine - still researching, however... Most people only do catch cans on the Dirty side of the PCV system. On the clean side, during WOT, it seems that oil can and does creep up & out of the 'PCV Intake' tube. The solution here is to either not drive WOT (puh-lease), or add a catch can on the Clean side. The question is 'How big'? Catch Can manufacturers will happily sell you two catch cans, but there miniature catch cans (a few oz) that replace the oil filler cap and have a tube that runs to the Air Intake. Since this replaces the stock PCV Intake path, the PCV Intake tube would then be capped. I'm not sure which way I'll go yet... I found this very useful diagram on ls1tech.com for dual catch can routing when the restrictor orifice is used: http://www.andersonperformance.net/pcv-2int.jpg

My tank is 36" x 12" x 8" (not incl the sump at the bottom), which is 15 Gallons. Yours, jevs, looks like it should be a little more than that since the back wall looks more like 13-14" tall. I'd estimate yours is probably 15 3/4 or 16 Gallons.

Good stuff, Jevs! I'm glad your missing pieces arrived.

Thx for the info, subtlez28. My welder confirmed it'll be tight but doable. I'll probably go see him later this week with the pump & bung to get it done.

Haha. Thx, Shane. I've never used JB Weld before, but I bought some the other day to use with a little air straightener honeycomb insert thingamajig for the 4" air intake tube. It never occurred to me to use it for the AN16 bung. I think I'll add this to the list of q's for Scott. Thx for the suggestion.

Glad you found the site, Bob! Welcome. Thx for the kind words; you'll enjoy M-Spec #1 for sure.

Thx, xcarguy, but my genius was short lived. Saturday was one of those not-so-good garage days, for two reasons: 1. As I now know, a 33mm socket is too small when hammering in the AN16 water neck fitting onto the water pump. The threads of the water neck were completely destroyed. I was able to remove it (after borrowing a slide hammer, making a large clevis, having the bolt rip through the fitting, subsequently drilling another set of holes and continuing with the slide hammering), so I'm back to square one. I'll likely hire someone to do a weld-in AN16 bung for me because I'm not spending another hour with my mini-sledge In hindsight, jevs on #23 used a 35mm socket and had success. Sort of wish I read that earlier. 2. Not wanting to end the day after such a failure with #1, I decided to something easy to get a win for the day, and I chose to install my SU112 coolant sensor in the passenger side head. I overtorqued it, and the sensor broke in half; half was in my hand, and the threaded half was in the head. After an appropriate amount of :cuss: and then composing myself, I wedged a flat head screwdriver in the hollow part of the sensor and rotated it out quite easily. Phew. I called it a day after that. --- Sunday was better. Found a local welder with great reputation. The only open question in my mind is if there is enough clearance between the fitting and the water pump pulley. Having never welded anything myself, nor hiring any welders, I have no idea what the allowable clearances are. The pulley, on this pump, isn't removable as far as I know. The barbed fitting on the lower left in the following picture gets removed and the AN16 bung is welded in its place. I've sent this picture & question to the welder to see what he says. http://i.ebayimg.com/00/$(KGrHqQOKosE5k3!lEgcBOe9j7VpRQ~~_12.JPG Other light work on the day: Attached the motor mount brackets to the engine and made the required modifications to the engine mounts & trans mount that get installed on the frame. Removed the little oil pan cover plate and installed the CBM-10820, along with the Speedhut G-SNDR-07 sensor and 1/8 NPT plugs on the unused ports of the CBM-10820. The only weirdness here was that I ended up drilling out the CBM-10820's M12x1.5 hole and re-tapping it as 1/4 NPT, then used a 1/4 to 1/8 NPT bushing for the sensor. I did it this way b/c the sensor was a little too long to use the native 1/8 NPT holes based on how they are oriented. I know there are other smaller 1/8 NPT temperature senders out there, but I needed one with an isolated ground terminal and preferred a GM-style connector. Installed a new SU112 sensor in the passenger side head, and it's still in one piece, hurray! Removed the oil level sensor on the pan and replaced with an M20x1.5 to NPT adapter and second Speedhut G-SNDR-07 temp sender. The unthreaded hole of the adapter was a little too small for the tip of the sensor to pass through, so I had to drill it out a tad. There's still plenty of metal left around the widened hole.

Thanks, guys! Glad someone finds it interesting. Ha! :cheers:

Wifey got mad at me tonight for using up our olive oil, but hey, at least I used the cheap stuff.:jester: Why, you ask? Well, obviously, because it's one of the few common liquids that I can heat to 330 F without boiling or exploding, and it cleans up with soap & water. uhh, okay...but whyyyyyyyyyyyy? (Because race car) I need to characterize the Resistance vs Temperature behavior of 3 temperature sensors that I'll be using in the car: Duralast SU112, which is a cross-reference to a GM ECT sensor and, more importantly, has an M12x1.5 thread. This sensor will connect into the spare/plugged hole on the passenger side head [that is also threaded M12x1.5]. Two other temp sensors, Speedhut G-SNDR-07, which have 1/8 NPT threads. One of these will connect to an M20x1.5 adapter that replaces the stock LS3 oil level sensor in the oil pan. The other will connect to the oil cooler block-off plate on the oil pan. I'm connecting both initially so that I can compare to see which one sees hotter oil. Once I know that, I'll use the hot one full time, and the other will go on unused. These sensors will eventually connect to my custom gauge setup, which means I have to design it around the resistance curves that these sensors will provide. So, that means I need to know what that curve looks like. Once I have that, I can easily build my circuit to very accurately display the temperature. http://www471.pair.com/stalkerv/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=27646&g2_serialNumber=3 To run the experiment, I slowly heated the oil to 330F and then turned off the stove. As the olive oil cooled, I recorded resistance readings at 10 deg increments. http://www471.pair.com/stalkerv/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=27642&g2_serialNumber=4 And the results. I was a little surprised that the two Speedhut sensors weren't closer; at 100F there is a 10% difference in their resistance. That delta gets smaller the hotter they get. Not a big deal, I can adjust the circuit accordingly. What's also interesting is that I have data from another SU112 experiment last year and when I compared the two sets of data, the newer sensor is, on average, 6% higher at a given temperature. What that means is that if I had simply used my old data to build my circuit and then used the new sensor, my circuit would have interpreted the temperature to be too low, by maybe ~5 deg F on average. It could be a non-issue, but I like precision monitoring and am glad I took the 2 hours to run the experiment: http://www471.pair.com/stalkerv/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=27648&g2_serialNumber=2

I'm logging my time in my build log for my M-Spec XL. Looks like I'm at 89 hours thus far into the initial assembly. By the end, I expect it to be more than 150 hours. This time is *just* garage time. It doesn't include time spent researching & ordering parts or designing & prototyping my electrical system.

gah - yes, had those...sorry to see it. Time for a new pan, then?

Spent tonight swapping out suspension bolts with AN bolts and am about half way through. I also chose this opportunity to shim the various gaps between the heim joints & cone washers. Gaps vary from 1/64" to 3/32". I couldn't really fix the 1/64th gaps (I think there were only 2 of those), so I'm hoping that I can tighten things up enough to eat up that gap. For the other gaps, I used combinations of AN washers, which are available in both 1/32" & 1/16" thicknesses that I could find. Now, the suspension joints should be nice and tight against their mounting brackets. I also used the 1/32" washers to help tighten up the Wilwood pedals, where the pedal mounts to the base. I really didn't like the slop & rattle of the pedals. Now, it's smooth & quiet. A happy accident: if anyone remembers the earlier problem of the rear pushrod mounting bolt interfering with the rear toe rod, and I had replaced the grade 8 bolt with a socket head cap screw bolt because it had a much smaller head. As it turns out, an AN bolt works just as well because the AN8 bolt head is just about the same size as the head of the socket head cap screw.

Oil Pan baffle & oil pickup installed. These were straightforward: http://www471.pair.com/stalkerv/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=27634&g2_serialNumber=3 C6 corvette oil pan installed, which comes with a new gasket riveted to the pan. I scraped off the old gasket maker goo in the corners of the block, all mating surfaces were cleaned, and applied new gasket maker in the corners, and the pan was aligned to the block per the service manual instructions: http://www471.pair.com/stalkerv/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=27636&g2_serialNumber=3 Will do the sensors & adapters later on...

Been ordering a few small parts here, like sensors & adapters. Preparing for drivetrain installation, I had to modify my build table to raise the lower supports so that the engine hoist's legs could fit underneath. I also finally took inventory of the suspension bolts I want to swap out, measuring the proper grip and looking up cost & part numbers for AN bolts, nuts, & washers. I'll add my list of AN bolt p/n's & locations once I've verified that they are correct installed in the car. The total cost came in at ~$150, which was less than I thought it would be. It may be overkill, but I view it as a cheap insurance policy. I'll sleep better at night. I also finally spent some quality time with the engine for the oil pan swap. I was surprised that the engine was shipped with a full sump...but hey, draining it was pretty darn easy. Starting off, here are a few of the oil-related parts going in: LS3 Corvette Oil Pan, GM p/n 12624617 LS3 Corvette oil pickup w/new o-ring, 12624497 LS3 Corvette dipstick (12570788), and dipstick tube (12570787). In retrospect, the dipstick & tube that came with the engine could work fine, but I went ahead and swapped it anyway Improved Racing crank scraper & oil pan baffle (EGM-215, which is now on their website here) CBM-10820. This is a little piece that replaces the oil cooler block off plate on the oil pan. It has 3 holes: 1 hole = M12 x 1.5 and 2 holes = 1/8 NPT. This is where one of my oil temperature sensors will go, and the other 2 holes will be plugged M20 x 1.5 to 1/8 NPT adapter. This will replace the stock oil level sensor in the pan, which is the light brown protrusion on the left side of the oil pan. The stock sensor has a float switch for the oil level indicator and also has a thermistor for oil temperature. However, I can tell you that GM's OEM ECU's only use it for oil level and use a calculation for oil temperature, not an actual sensor. I hypothesize this is because the plastic housing of the sensor isn't the best conductor of heat. I did some testing on this sensor a while back on another car, and it takes about 2 minutes, literally, for that thing to register a change in temperature. The GMPP ECU doesn't use the oil level sensor at all, and I briefly explored using it to connect to an indicator light. But, because the float sloshes about while the oil moves around, it means the sensor is constantly bouncing on-off repeatedly at a random rate. A non-GMPP ECU will have some debouncing logic and only alarm if the switch is off after some longer duration, like maybe 300ms, but I'm not going to go to the trouble of doing that. So, I'll remove the sensor, install this adapter, and have another 1/8 NPT oil temperature sensor. http://www471.pair.com/stalkerv/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=27623&g2_serialNumber=4 Stock oil pan removed: http://www471.pair.com/stalkerv/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=27626&g2_serialNumber=3 Stock windage tray removed: http://www471.pair.com/stalkerv/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=27628&g2_serialNumber=3 Crank scraper installed. This is my first time using a crank scraper. The provided instructions do a good job of explaining that you need to use a Feeler Gauge to measure the clearance between the crank scraper & crankshaft, while manually rotating the crankshaft. If the proper clearance can't be obtained by repositioning the crank scraper, it's time to get out the hand file. The recommended clearance is 0.020" to 0.060". I trimmed the scraper in 4 spots and re-checked the clearance after installation. The most annoying part about this was manually rotating the crankshaft. http://www471.pair.com/stalkerv/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=27630&g2_serialNumber=3 More on next post...

On mine, at the lower mounting point on the GM lever, it's [Correction]about 5 1/4" and with the upper mounting point, it's 6 1/4"

Do you happen to remember what your measurements were for the CBM-10620 and the water pump hole? I tried fitting mine today and the 10620 was too small and slid right it w/o any pressing/hammering. When I measured the base of the 10620, it was 1.292" vs the stock barbed piece I removed was more like 1.298". CBM's ebay ad had mentioned that the base should be 1.299", so I'm checking with CBM to see if I have the wrong part or a bad part.

Ahh, I see. Makes perfect sense. Thx for clarifying. The only other pseudo-stopper in play is the oval cut-out in the firewall shelf, but since that will flex with force applied, it's not a very good stopper. I was thinking about adding both a clutch stop & throttle stop.

Good find. It does look much nicer than mine. The Brunton lever is only 5/8" OD though...a 3/8" hole through it seems like it might be too large. I may look for a 1/4" one.

Progress on the support brackets for the GM pedal base. Here's a couple videos to illustrate what's happening. In all of these videos, I'm pushing on the throttle pedal in the foot well. This first video is with no brackets for the GM pedal base and with the scuttle installed, i.e. the default configuration if I left it alone and continued on with other parts of the build: As you can see from the above video, there is enough flex that small throttle pedal modulations are absorbed by the aluminum panel, which isn't good. Now, the next video - for entertainment purposes - this is what happens when you remove the scuttle: That is a ridiculous amount of movement, but obviously, since no one would ever operate the car like that, it's not a valid use case. Still, it illustrates what's happening. Here's my first attempt at solving the problem. I made 2 brackets out of 1/16" thick aluminum angle from my local HW store. I cut a slit, bent the angle, put a sheet metal screw in to lock things down. For one connection point, I used a 1/4-28 bolt with three washers, which you'll understand why shortly. These then attach to existing holes I had in the tunnel top & frame tubes. http://www471.pair.com/stalkerv/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=27614&g2_serialNumber=3 Here's how I modified the GM pedal base. The GM pedal base comes with only 3 holes, but only two are usable as-is: top right and bottom left. To use the top left hole, I used a 1/4-28 tap, and then used a 1/2" bolt with 3 washers to prevent the bolt from protruding too far. If the bolt extends beyond the face of the base flange, it acts like a stop and prevents the GM pedal arm from reaching full throttle. I drilled a new hole in the bottom right. Now, the pedal base has 4 usable connection points. http://www471.pair.com/stalkerv/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=27618&g2_serialNumber=3 The resulting video, with the brackets installed but without the scuttle. It's a dramatic improvement, and the throttle modulations are transferred to the GM pedal arm, even though there is still a tiny bit of flex remaining. Refer back to the previous video to be reminded how terrible the flex was without the brackets and without the scuttle: So, it seems clear to me that something needs to be done. I think my brackets are acceptable (not pretty, but they'll be masked by the scuttle), but what might be better is a little steel tab welded in the corner of the upper frame tubes, just under the tunnel top, which would allow both brackets to have a better angle for resisting the flex. I'll have to add this to my "needs welding" list since I don't weld. What is also now apparent is that the Brunton-supplied bracket it also moving a tiny bit. I'm referring to the piece shown in the lower left corner of the videos above, and if you look closely, you can see it moving in the videos. The two near side holes (not pictured in the videos) of this bracket are drilled through the frame, but the far side holes (you can see the two clecos in the last video) are only attached to the firewall shelf. At full throttle, that far side of the bracket dips down 1/16" or so. I'm thinking another steel tab should be welded over there to support it. I could just do some right-angle brackets temporarily, but I don't feel like drilling unnecessary holes in the frame. Open to other ideas on this too, of course.

Oh Wow. I wasn't expecting any ridiculous lead times like that. I suppose if mine takes that long, I could put the engine in w/o the trans so that I can keep working. Okay good. I ordered the bellhousing and sourced the bolts from McMaster. Glad to hear about your shocks & other items that will be on the way soon.

Wow, are saying you waited a month or more for the Magnum to show up? What other parts are required, other than the connector & pigtail you show and the shifter relocate?

Excellent point! Thx for bringing this up.

Thx, John. That's a good idea. I was thinking something along those lines, maybe using 2 pieces of aluminum angle with a support between the two.

Okay, one more call-out: with the different mounting points on the GM pedal arm, it changes the amount of available throttle pedal travel. So, it's a tradeoff of effort vs how much travel you want.

Oh, I also forgot to mention a conversation with Scott several days ago where I was asking about the general approach for the throttle pedal installation. In the course of that conversation, he mentioned that if the pedal was too stiff, remove one of the springs from the pedal base. At the time, I didn't really understand why he suggested it, but now I do. This said, this convo was well before I actually started my throttle pedal install, and I haven't discussed my exact implementation with Scott.