toedrag

Jevs, are you doing the 12.75" rotors on both front & rear?

Man, every time I look at the suspension set up on these cars, I'm in awe. I love all the heims and the general design of the system; it's part of what drew me to the car. Everything is so accessible, so serviceable, and functional.

What, no mention of the Spiderman pajamas? :jester:

I'm told that's the GMPP ECU kit (19258270), which [hopefully] should play nicely with the GMPP crate motor I plan to buy. EDIT: Correction, I later discover in Oct/Nov that the harness is from Current Performance Wiring and the ECU is an E38 (12633238)

Excellent! I just checked my front & rear hubs and they were a nice tight fit. My ECM kit does have qty 2 Delphi O2 sensors: http://www471.pair.com/stalkerv/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=27106&g2_serialNumber=3

That makes way too much sense! Especially considering I had a perfectly usable vice 3 ft away.

The pictures of the new spindle w/toe rod are actually in the Suspension video section. I originally had my push rod bolt in the same way as the video, but since the toe rod contacted the nut, I decided to try flipping the bolt around to see if it would provide the necessary gap, which it didn't Re: wheel hub press fit: interesting; I took it at face value of the build video that they are pressed in by tightening the bolts. I haven't taken the hubs out of the boxes yet, but I will later. I wonder if they are supposed to press in...

Thx! I'll go check it out. It'd be nice if Google Drive sent an email when files changed; maybe there's a setting somewhere....I received my ECU yesterday; I'll go through it tonight and will take some photos. Here you go. You can see that the toe rod heim at the spindle is being held up by the pushrod bolt a few inches back. I looked at the photo of the new spindle with the toe rod on the Google Drive, and it looks good, except that the lower control arm has no bracket for the pushrod http://www471.pair.com/stalkerv/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=27103&g2_serialNumber=2

Got my toe rod installed correctly, but I'm wondering if a few washers will still be required b/c now the toe rod contacts the nut/bolt that's holding the pushrod. I estimate that 4-5 washers will lift up the toe rod enough to clear the bolt/nut. It's hard to tell since none of the bolts are tightened up...will post a picture later. Got the 1/2" holes in the rockers drilled out, and the bolts slide right in Shaved the rear shock spacers; ended up using a stationary belt sander with 80 grit to take off a tiny bit at a time, rotating the spacer 90 deg after a few passes to keep the face nice & flat. Only took off about 1/32 from each face, and wrapped blue painter's tape around the spacer to use as my reference line. I changed my mind and went ahead and installed the rocker bushings, with help from my assistant (no, those aren't my Batman crocs). Not sure if it helped, but I put the bushings in the freezer yesterday. Today, I got 'em started with a rubber mallet, then lightly tapped with the regular hammer to get it square in the opening, and then drove it in with 3-4 good whacks. http://www471.pair.com/stalkerv/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=27094&g2_serialNumber=3 My helper hammering in the bushing, using scrap AL to keep from damaging the bushing face http://www471.pair.com/stalkerv/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=27097&g2_serialNumber=3 A little grease to help the inner sleeve slide into the bushings. I set both bushings first and then installed the sleeve. http://www471.pair.com/stalkerv/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=27099&g2_serialNumber=3 Using my helper's tiny hammer b/c he ran off with my BFH http://www471.pair.com/stalkerv/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=27101&g2_serialNumber=3

And do you happen to know how his car's brake bias was set? Maybe there was too much going to the rears?

Check your state's inspection req't to see if the parking brake is required, and secondly if it must be separate from the main braking system. Of course, it's anyone's guess if the inspection technician would notice/ask if the parking brake was separate... Did some research on this one, but never really made a decision Some spot calipers: Wilwood: http://www.summitracing.com/search/product-line/wilwood-billet-spot-calipers IPSCO: http://www.ipsco.org/Custom%20Services/Parking%20Brake.htm The alternative to a mechanical one is a hydraulic line lock, like Park Lok: http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Park-Lok-Hydraulic-Brake,1970.html (This is what Scott had recommended to me) Here's a few pictures from a Stalker owner with the Wilwood one mounted:

Congrats!!:hurray: Can't imagine the nervous excitement you must have felt. Such a delicious sound.

Fan-tastic! Thx a ton:hurray:

I haven't ordered my O2 sensors yet; probably won't for a while. Ditto the ECM; apparently, GMPP has been backordered for a while. My kit came with pads: 150-10007k and 150-9413k (one box each, containing 4 pads ). I should also note that my front calipers are 6 piston and rears are 4.

I'm a fan of blanks/plain. If you have a Napa store near you, you can get theirs which have a lifetime warranty. I think Raybestos also does lifetime warranty on some of their lines.. Some track people I know will buy the cheapest rotors possible from Rockauto and just treat them as consumables.

Got clarification from Scott on the rear toe rod and other items (the hood is still puzzeling us both, however. Need to take more pics & send to Scott) : jlumba81 was headed in the right direction with his toe rod suggestion The newer spindle design that jevs & I have requires that the toe rod mounts on TOP of the tab on the spindle (per jlumba81's earlier suggestion) with the cone washers but without the 5 regular washers as shown in the video & in my earlier picture, and the other end of the toe rod mounts to the top-most hole in the bracket at the frame using a 2.5" bolt and appropriate cone spacers. Other details we discussed: Regarding the Rocker bushings, the build video shows Delrin bushings & brass washers. However, the current HW kit provides carbon-brass metal bushings without any brass washers. Just have to pound the bushings into the rockers, and before adding the inner sleeve, use a little grease. I think I'll press in the bushings after getting the rockers powdercoated. On the rockers where the shocks mount, if the rocker opening is too tight for the shock's spacers to fit with reasonable effort, it's okay to grind the spacer down. My fronts were snug in the rocker, but the rear rockers are about 1/16 too narrow; I'll grind the spacers down so that it's snug, not "need a hammer" tight like it is today. On on the rear rockers where the pushrods mount, the 1/2" holes were a tiny bit too small, and it's fine to use a 1/2" bit to widen them Back on track! :hurray:

Thx, Shane. Very true. I know it'll get sorted out eventually, and I'm still holding onto the idea that it's somehow user error.

Yeah, I'm thinking they are too short. No, don't have my rotors yet. On the powdercoating, I was going to finish the dry fit and then get the spindles powdercoated. Yeah, I'll probably call Scott tomorrow. The rear spindle tab/hole is only 1/4" further vs the front spindle from the rearmost edge.

Nah, it's pretty difficult to screw that up. The lower control arms are all very different. The uppers are different front to back, but similar side to side. I'm pretty sure I've got them right, though.

Gah, no worky. It just changed the point of interference from the side of the toe rod to the bottom of the toe rod.

Oooooh, good thought. I bet that's it. That would explain why I never found the 3.5" bolt advertised in the build video; the other control arm bolts are 2.5", and the extra 1" from the 3.5" bolt was supposed to be for the toe rod to mount. I think I noticed some extra 2.5" bolts, which is probably what they are for. Will give it a go after kiddos are in bed tonight, and it's gonna be an early bedtime for 'em. :cheers:

I'm glad you guys brought up the diff venting thing...had no clue about that. Tried some Rear Suspension test fitting today and ran into more questions. It appears the Toe Rod mounting location on the spindle isn't forward enough because its current position allows the toe rod to make contact with the lower control arm, and in fact, there is so much interference that the toe rod can't be moved where it needs to be on its bolt (you can see the giant gap near the frame). The inboard toe rod heim joint is just loosely sitting on a bolt, btw. In the build video, the toe rod mounting location on that spindle looks to be about 1/2" further forward than mine, which would put it in the correct location. http://www471.pair.com/stalkerv/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=27085&g2_serialNumber=2 For comparison, here are two screenshots from the Build Video. The Toe Rod mounting point is clearly further forward than mine, and the toe rod is essentially parallel to the lower control arm. But, maybe this is a red-herring. These days, I immediately think these issues are somehow user error, so I'm starting with that assumption. Then again, I'm 90% confident my rear A-arms are oriented properly, which doesn't leave much explanation for why there is contact between the toe rod & A-arm, when there should be a noticeable gap: http://www471.pair.com/stalkerv/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=27087&g2_serialNumber=2 http://www471.pair.com/stalkerv/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=27089&g2_serialNumber=2 On the Rocker, the 1/2" holes where the pushrod mounts appear to be drilled a tiny bit too small b/c the 1/2" bolt wont' fit, but a 12mm bolt will. Looks like I'll need to buy a 1/2" drill bit to widen the hole...Plus, the opening/gap of the rocker is about 1/16" too narrow for the shock's spacers, so I suppose I'll need to grind the spacers down a bit. I tried the BFH approach and there is a noticeable flare created once the spacers are where they need to be, and that doesn't seem like a good idea... Then I realized I had mistakenly used the Rear spindles on the Front (somehow on both sides of the front), and after swapping them, sadly, it didn't solve my toe-rod problem. In any case, the 4-hole wheel hub mounting pattern on the LEFT is for the FRONT spindles, and the 3-hole wheel hub mounting pattern on the RIGHT is for the REAR spindles. http://www471.pair.com/stalkerv/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=27074&g2_serialNumber=3 All in all, a semi-frustrating day.

Well put. Who did you buy your new Grade 8's from? McMaster's Zinc-plated Grade 8 choices are a little limited b/c they seem to always thread the last 1" to 1 5/16", which means I'd need a 3 1/4" or 3 1/2" bolt and use more washers plus cutting off the extra threads. Not a huge deal, but if I can avoid it, I'd like to. Fastenal & Grainger don't seem to list the grip length or thread length anywhere that I can find, but maybe I'm just not seeing it. The AN bolts from the aircraft suppliers are an option, but I'd also have to buy new nuts due to the thread pitch differences. The shear strength of AN bolts is listed in the AN spec, and in the 3/8 size, it's higher than what I calculated for Grade 8 @ 3/8" diameter, but the shear strength for AN in the 5/8" diameter is much lower than what I calculated for Grade 8, which makes me wonder if I've miscalculated for the Grade 8's. The AN spec lists the 5/8 diameter as 23k pounds vs my calculated Grade 8 of 60k-ish pounds. But, even at 23k pounds, it's still tough to reach that force on the spindle.

Glad to hear of some like-minded ppl :cheers: Let me say that I'm NOT a mechanical engineer, so the following is likely entirely wrong. Ran a few quick calculations for the 3/8" A-arm bolts in the 1/8" thick brackets: Major Diameter = 0.375" Minor Diameter = 0.2983" Grade 8 Tensile Strength = 150k psi Grade 8 Shear Strength = Fastenal doesn't provide shear strength numbers, so using the industry std of 60% of Tensile Strength: 150k psi * 60% = 90k psi Assuming that the cross sectional area of the bolt/bracket that will be loaded will be no more than 1/2 the bolt circumference, I calculate the cross sectional area as follows: ((pi * D) / 2 )*bracket thickness For Full Shank = (pi * 0.375)/2 * 0.125 = 0.073 sq in ---> * 90k psi = 6.57k pounds of force For Threads = (pi * 0.2983)/2 * 0.125 = 0.058 sq in ---> * 90k psi = 5.22k pounds of force I'm kind of surprised that it's only 1300 lbs difference between the two; I thought it would be more. Moving on...since we're talking about a double-shear application for the A-arm brackets, and since there are two brackets per A-arm, I think that means the total force can be: 2*6.57k + 2*5.22k = 23.58k total pounds exerted on only ONE A-Arm to shear the bolts (using the industry std 60% of Tensile strength rule) Maybe we can double the 23k number since we 2 A-arms, so maybe 43k pounds, only on 1 wheel. I guess that makes me feel a little bit better about the A-arms, because I have a hard time seeing how one wheel or A-Arm could approach that kind of a load unless it was a collision. In contrast, the 5/8" thick A-Arm to Spindle bolts are a single shear application. Doing the calculations in a similar way, I come up with: Major Diameter = 0.6250" Minor Diameter = 0.5828" Grade 8 Tensile Strength = 150k psi Grade 8 Shear Strength = Fastenal doesn't provide shear strength numbers, so using the industry std of 60% of Tensile Strength: 150k psi * 60% = 90k psi Calculating the cross sectional is different b/c the Heim joint is 3/4", but the Rod End is 7/8". I suppose I'll use the 3/4" b/c it's smaller. For Full Shank = 0.7363 sq in * 90k psi = 66k pounds For Threads = 0.686 sq in * 90k psi = 61k pounds Again, I feel a little better b/c I'm happy that the single shear 5/8 bolt can seemingly handle the load + margin of both A-arms. And, like the A-arms, I have a hard time seeing how those forces could be reached unless it was a collision. -- I suppose the last question would be will the threads slowly saw away at the brackets and/or Rod ends making them loosen up over time? Not sure...maybe? How long would that take to notice? Who knows... Stuff to noodle over...

Tried fitting the hood and ran into some issues. Will revisit that later... Moving on to suspension. It's nice to move from aluminum & fiberglass work to easy bolt-on stuff like control arms & shocks. The hardware kit is very nicely labeled in individual zip-lock bags, and it's been pretty darn easy to put the puzzle pieces together. That being said, I still ended up with some questions. I'm also leaving the wheel hubs off for now since they are press-fit & bolted in, so I figure I'll get the spindles powdercoated first and then install the wheel hubs - don't really feel like doing the press-fitting twice. As far as my questions, I noticed that all of the bolts I've assembled thus far in the front suspension kit have the threaded portion loaded in shear. It's probably fine [as I tend to overthink things], given that there isn't anyone complaining of bolts breaking and control arms flopping about. But, I still have to do my 'due diligence' and make sure that these bolts are acceptable for the application. They are Grade 8 zinc plated from Fastenal, so that's good. These are the Control Arm Bolts: http://www471.pair.com/stalkerv/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=27042&g2_serialNumber=4 These are the Control Arm to Spindle Bolts; it's hard to see, but the threaded portion starts just south of the cone washer, which is also about where the loading occurs (and also is the weakest point of the bolt as I understand it): http://www471.pair.com/stalkerv/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=27045&g2_serialNumber=3 Pretty shocks. A question has also come up about the bushings & washers that connect the rocker (the triangular piece between the push-rod & the shock) & the bracket on the frame: http://www471.pair.com/stalkerv/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=27049&g2_serialNumber=3 End of Day: http://www471.pair.com/stalkerv/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=27055&g2_serialNumber=3