2.3 or 2.5 Duratec/MZR in Birkin S3

[JeffersonRaley]

It looks like my latest attempt to replace the engine in my Birkin is coming to a bad end (after a year of waiting). So I'm back to looking at options, and will probably go with a 2.5L from either Omex or Raceline. I'm curious as to whether anyone on this forum has installed the taller 2.3/2.5 engine in a Birkin S3, and did it require lowering the engine. Dropping the engine wouldn't be too hard, but then I'd need a dry sump, small flywheel/clutch and bellhousing. So really I'm just trying to figure how much pain I'm setting myself up for.

 

Good thing I bought a highly modified S2000 for a track car a year ago. Otherwise the continuing delays on the Birkin would have me climbing the walls. But it should be amazing when finished.

[papak]

The Raceline dry sump and wet sump both have nearly the same depth below the block. No help there. They both fit inside the Birkin skid plate. After driving mine for 2000 mi., I would be reluctant to NOT use the skid plate. I'm pretty careful and I still have some dents in mine. The 2.5 is the same height as the 2.3 (the bore is larger on the 2.5). The front of the T-9 ends up being the low point. You could probably grind off ¼" or so. Tom Carlin ((970) 376-5188‬) can probably supply the correct engine mounts. He also offers a lower cam cover that keeps everything below the aft edge of the nose.

[Davemk1]

I doubt you're interested in going this route but I wonder if you've considered using a Honda S2000 engine and trans? I have one in my Westfield and it uses Omex control and works very well in a Seven. My concern with it would be that the package would be too tall to fit in the Birkin bodywork.....the Westfield has a bulge in the engine cover to give the needed room.

 

Just wanted to toss this out in case you never considered it.

 

dave

[JeffersonRaley]

Papak - I talked with Raceline this morning and the confirmed that they can get the power levels I want without VVT. That means I can run the lower cam cover and engine height is pretty close to what a 2.0 is. So I think I'll be completely fine running the wet sump at current engine height.

[JeffersonRaley]

Dave - I've driven Ultralights with the S2000 motor and agree they work extremely well. Really a great engine. But I am pretty sure that you're right on fitment. All of the S2k cars have tall hoods to clear that giant V-Tech head. I rebuilt the head on my S2k this year and it is a tall motor.

 

 

I doubt you're interested in going this route but I wonder if you've considered using a Honda S2000 engine and trans? I have one in my Westfield and it uses Omex control and works very well in a Seven. My concern with it would be that the package would be too tall to fit in the Birkin bodywork.....the Westfield has a bulge in the engine cover to give the needed room.

 

Just wanted to toss this out in case you never considered it.

 

dave

[Ferdl]

A little more expensive , but probably much fun : https://westermann-motorsport.com/en/produkte/wesmo-cosworth-duratec-24

[John B]

I have a Cosworth/Duratec 2.5 MZR in my 2003 Caterham SV and it fits fine, no hood bulge required. I don't know about a Birkin, but if anything I suspect it has more room for an engine than my car does.

I would say go with the extra displacement, you pick up about 25 hp over a 2.3.

[Davemk1]

If you're interested I can measure the height of my engine so you could rule it in/out. Just let me know.

 

dave

 

 

 

Dave - I've driven Ultralights with the S2000 motor and agree they work extremely well. Really a great engine. But I am pretty sure that you're right on fitment. All of the S2k cars have tall hoods to clear that giant V-Tech head. I rebuilt the head on my S2k this year and it is a tall motor.

[11Budlite]

I should still have some photos at home of a Birkin chassis with an S2000 motor installed. I don't know if the gentleman ever finished the build, but he was doing a really good job on it. I know it was really tight. I'll check when I get home and post photos if I still have them.

[JeffersonRaley]

Definitely something to consider. The Cosworth name alone is worth something.

 

A little more expensive , but probably much fun : https://westermann-motorsport.com/en/produkte/wesmo-cosworth-duratec-24

[JeffersonRaley]

Thanks John. I agree - as long as I'm replacing the engine I might as well go big. The Cosworth that Ferdl linked to is interesting too. Nominally a little less power, but I'd detune the Raceline anyway. 300bhp is roughly equivalent to 900bhp in a normal car. My car had enough trouble putting 210 to the ground.

 

I have a Cosworth/Duratec 2.5 MZR in my 2003 Caterham SV and it fits fine, no hood bulge required. I don't know about a Birkin, but if anything I suspect it has more room for an engine than my car does.

I would say go with the extra displacement, you pick up about 25 hp over a 2.3.

[John B]

Thanks John. I agree - as long as I'm replacing the engine I might as well go big. The Cosworth that Ferdl linked to is interesting too. Nominally a little less power, but I'd detune the Raceline anyway. 300bhp is roughly equivalent to 900bhp in a normal car. My car had enough trouble putting 210 to the ground.

 

Mine is built with all the race goodies, but 11.5 compression instead of 13 to run on 93 pump gas. It dynoed 273 at the crank and puts the power down reasonably well... in 3rd-5th