Anyone read the latest Grassroots Motorsports? 7 vs Atom...

[WestTexasS2K]

Maverick 1 and Randy thanks for chimiing in on the board. I always loved the Atom its industrial look with modern suspension and drive train was very appealing to me. It offers nearly the same power to weight ratio as my car it certainly has more hip and shoulder room than my car.

 

I come from a long drag racing and hot rodding background myself and like to study cars for there basic elements and design which the Atom is full of. I must admit that I would be one of the group if my wallet could support my dreams. But since my car can do just about everything as well as the Atom and cost less than half I guess I will have to be satisfied with it. I would like to tear away and go to Oklahoma for Atom fest. I would love to see one in person and maybe steal a ride from someone.

 

P.S. It would great if some of your guys could come to Run and Gun. It would be interesting to see how the other cars stack up against the Atom. Yall can find out more info at www.runngun.net. It is a blast and you get tons of track time and plenty of time to rub elbows with fellow car nuts Loren

[JBH]

Wow...I am glad some Atom guys showed up. It is always good to hear the perspective first hand - there is some good information there. If you look at one of my posts describing my test days at VIR, you can see all the things I like/dislike about the Seven. I also posted my north course lap times there - these were essentially open laps with no traffic.

 

I would be interested in lap times for the Atom at various tracks.

 

 

[xromad]

Hey Randy,

 

Thanks for chiming in. Thanks to the other Atom owners too.

 

Personally, I thought the article made it quite clear that the Atom was not sorted. I still hold by my earlier statement. I'd stand a sorted Seven, on it's home turf, against any unsorted car in the world. I don't care what horsepower or lineage.

 

Properly sorted, there are lots of cars out there that can beat a seven around a track. Some can even beat it in its home turf. Then, there is the whole driver equation. I'd bet a real master driver could use a Trabant (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trabant) to beat me and my seven around a track. Heck Sabine managed to push a Ford Transit around the 'nurburgring' in 10:08. Which, is pretty darned impressive.

 

I'd love to see a combined event. Even if it was just spirited drives in the mountains. I personally think the Atom is very Sevenesque. Kind of like my cousins: I didn't get to pick them but they are still family.

 

John, Al, Mazda, I think we should make a point to invite them to our next national (or even large regional) event. That would be cool!

 

Brent

[WestTexasS2K]

Hey that would be a great idea to combine the Atoms and Sevens for a blat weekend.:hurray:

[slngsht]

AtomFest, great post. and thanks for the complements on the forum. Also, :seeya: from a fellow vette guy.

 

I'm getting a roll cage on my seven over this winter, so hopefully I'll be able to do some track days next year, although I'll be a n00b at the track. I will only be able to make it to VIR and Summit Point - time is a limitation with little ones running around the Slngsht household

 

BTW, a SMALL group of us are doing a blat on sept 15/16 from DC to Snowshoe Mountain in WV... Any Atom owners are welcomed to join us (if they don't mind being usa7s club members for $20 a car for insurance reasons).

 

What you will find if you read this forum is that our membership is pretty open to all types of cars... including ALL types of Sevens. That is one of founding principals (believe me, that is not true for every Seven related online community / listserv :nonod: ). The topic of the resale vaule of our cars rarely comes up here, frankly because none of us care. We have these cars because we enjoy them, whether it's the 65K variety or the 1K variety. I wish you could have been there at our 7/7/7 meet to witness it first hand. With that background, we kinda frown upon "xyz did a locost b/c that's what he can afford mentality" (which BTW, is NOT referring to your post).

 

I know I, for one, will really enjoy hanging out with a fellow car nut who happens to drive an Atom any time.

 

Thanks again for your post.

 

Hello guys,

 

I was just Googling a bit for Atomfest references, trying to see how well we had been doing with our promotional efforts, when I came across this thread. Let me first say that I appreciate anybody who goes to the effort to create and maintain a forum like this one, knowing how much work it is. I have been a gearhead all my life I'm over 50) and all my attentions have really been paid to drag racing. My uncle was an IHRA pro dragracer in the 60's and I got the bug way back then. I've had lots of muscle type cars since, including a sweet 66 Hemi Belvedere, several Mustang Cobras, and a few Corvettes.

 

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h269/SuperCobraBuilders/Ariel%20Atom/IMGP1980.jpg

 

Never went to a road course until I bought an Ariel Atom.

 

Since, then I have done more than a dozen track days with the Atom, an '03 Mustang Cobra and a C6 Vette and had a ton of fun doing it. I've been to Road Atlanta, Road America, VIR, Blackhawk Farms, Eagles Canyon (with Keith) and what a blast. I've been to a couple of autocrosses along the way and those were great fun too.

 

I found your thread to be very interesting and I agree with a good bit of it. I do think that any forum of enthusiasts can get a little cerebrally inbred and it's not too hard to see signs of that on both sides of the Atom vs 7 discussion. If you were not passionate about your car, you surely would not put up with many of it's idiosyncrasies. Same goes for the Atom. Keith thinks the Atom guys didn't check out his Locost, but I did. You may remember Keith, I was trying to get the Traqmate to work on your car. Of course Tim, also an Atom guy drove your car during the test too. That's him in the photo in the opening page of the GRM article.

 

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h269/SuperCobraBuilders/Eagles%20Canyon/IMGP1883.jpg

 

The Atom is in it's second revision now. The GRM article has it a bit wrong, saying that Brammo christened it the Atom 2 because of their modifications. Actually the first Atom was powered by a 120 HP Rover engine and the chassis was significantly different in geometry and structural detail. One would not mistake it for anything but an Atom, but nonetheless, what you see now is gen 2. Gen 3 is expected to be released in a few weeks, although is seems like it has taken a long time to get there. It's more evolutionary than revolutionary, but being fans of the 7, you all must have a better understanding of that than I.

 

I appreciate the Atom not only for what it can do on the street and track, but what it has done for my overall enjoyment of things automotive in the

[Maverick1]

You see guys.....I knew we could all get along.

I am a track rookie, now with a whopping 2 track days under my belt, but am definitely hooked. Initially I had no clue what heel/toe was, or trail braking, but I have been practicing and can do both now fairly well.

I would love to test drive a Seven on the track and see how it feels and handles.

Cheers™

 

[slngsht]

You see guys.....I knew we could all get along.

I am a track rookie, now with a whopping 2 track days under my belt, but am definitely hooked. Initially I had no clue what heel/toe was, or trail braking, but I have been practicing and can do both now fairly well.

I would love to test drive a Seven on the track and see how it feels and handles.

Cheers™

 

Just one question Maverick... Why is your Cheers trademarked?

[rv-4mike]

Randy and Doug,

 

Thanks for chiming in with the Atom comments. I dont see a lot of Atom bashing in this thread though you guys may think I'm one of the guys doing the bashing. As I said in my first post, still love the Atom. If I could afford one I'd own one. But as Loren pointed out, the Ultralite (and most other 7 variants) have similar specs, power to weight, etc... And an actual racing pedigree to back up the bragging.

 

To me bang for the buck is a huge part of the equation and I expect to have my Ultralite on the road for less than $30K. Given similar performance capabilities and comparing prices, I have to give the nod to the 7 in spite of the fact that I think the Atom is the better looker of the two.

 

I'll stick with my comments regarding Brammo and their pricing and marketing policies. It's a beatiful car, but no more better engineered than many of the 7 variants. So the only reasons I can think of for the large difference in price is either way too much overhead in manufacturing or a marketing decision to price the car high to promote the exclusivity. Maybe both.

 

I'll stick to my comments regarding my experience in participating on the Atom forum while I was researching the car as well. With a few exceptions my impression was one of superiority. Maybe thats just me.

 

Just one example. I posted on the Atom forum requesting an invite to come and look at someone's car and take a ride. I made it clear I was willing to go anywhere in the western US, just wanted to see and ride in the car and get the owners perspective without any sales hype or pressure by going direct to Brammo. That request was greeted with a total lack of responses. Yes I realize there arent a lot of them out there, but at the time there were several of them in California and the owners of those cars were active participants on the forum.

 

A similar request on this forum got me a ride in a Caterham right here in San Diego, a ride in an Ultralite over in Phoenix, and an opportunity to actually drive Loren's Ultralite in Texas. That drive sold me on the car.

[Maverick1]

 

Just one question Maverick... Why is your Cheers trademarked?

You know just to be different®. LOL

Hey Mike....you know that if I was down in CA, I would have offered you a long, spirited ride in my Atom...

Cheers™

[7evin]

 

ok, this guy can't be for real. who logged in with a new screenname to stir the pot? Kevin is that you? stop acting like a tool.

 

 

Box, I take that as a compliment, :lol: I was thinking of accusing WestTexasS2k....

I must say I do like the looks of the Atom, in my rear view mirror...... :boxing:

http://usa7s.com/aspnetforum/upload/636057008_pics 125.jpg

http://usa7s.com/aspnetforum/upload/1889757670_pics 125a.jpg

.... Ha Ha Ha.... Just being funny...

 

As you know boys will be boys, no matter what age. I don't think our goal is to bash anyone's car.

I think if we were talking about bicycles that my bike would be faster then yours.

Just the way boys play.

 

Here's an idea, How about we all meet in a central location (like Hallet in OK.) We rent the track for the day

and have some fun. To make it even more fun we can do it in teams and who ever has the slowest team

buys the beer and pays the track rental. :cheers: IE. if the atom team is faster the 7s buy.

 

That would be a great opportunity for all of us to meet and rub elbows.

Hallet is a great track. Maybe we could even do a powder puff and let the girls

go out and drive. My wife loves driving MOJO.

http://usa7s.com/aspnetforum/upload/1189962621_DSCN4643b.jpg

 

To the Atom guys thanks for your input. You guys are ok even though your engine

is in the wrong place..... Just teasing. :grouphug:

[7evin]

 

P.S. It would great if some of your guys could come to Run and Gun. It would be interesting to see how the other cars stack up against the Atom. Yall can find out more info at www.runngun.net. It is a blast and you get tons of track time and plenty of time to rub elbows with fellow car nuts Loren

 

Warning to all Atom owners: This guy seems like a nice guy, and he is until he gets on a track in anything with wheels on it.

 

If he looks at you like this

http://usa7s.com/aspnetforum/upload/1578871578_loren2.jpg

 

Just pretend like there is something wrong with your car and go hide....

 

This is the Dirty Harry look...

 

If he is on his tricycle you might be safe.

 

If he is driving this

http://usa7s.com/aspnetforum/upload/1277035109_pics 025a.jpg

 

Then he is on a mission and you are a bogey.... (enemy aircraft)

 

Just a friendly warning....

[Maverick1]

 

 

Box, I take that as a compliment, :lol: I was thinking of accusing WestTexasS2k....

I must say I do like the looks of the Atom, in my rear view mirror...... :boxing:

http://usa7s.com/aspnetforum/upload/636057008_pics 125.jpg

http://usa7s.com/aspnetforum/upload/1889757670_pics 125a.jpg

.... Ha Ha Ha.... Just being funny...

 

As you know boys will be boys, no matter what age. I don't think our goal is to bash anyone's car.

I think if we were talking about bicycles that my bike would be faster then yours.

Just the way boys play.

 

Here's an idea, How about we all meet in a central location (like Hallet in OK.) We rent the track for the day

and have some fun. To make it even more fun we can do it in teams and who ever has the slowest team

buys the beer and pays the track rental. :cheers: IE. if the atom team is faster the 7s buy.

 

That would be a great opportunity for all of us to meet and rub elbows.

Hallet is a great track. Maybe we could even do a powder puff and let the girls

go out and drive. My wife loves driving MOJO.

http://usa7s.com/aspnetforum/upload/1189962621_DSCN4643b.jpg

 

To the Atom guys thanks for your input. You guys are ok even though your engine

is in the wrong place..... Just teasing. :grouphug:

Just curious, from the pic of the 7's lined up, are they the WCM 7 model, with the Honda S2000 motors in them?

Cheers™

[xromad]

I'm sure a couple of these guys could be talked into a little game of "chase me around the track".

 

Or better yet, "chase me through the mountains...":cheers:

 

http://www471.pair.com/stalkerv/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=11782&g2_serialNumber=1

 

Warning, beware of the yellow one with flames in the top left corner. He's just a little bit fast....

 

Brent

 

P.S. Not a single S2K motor in the group. :jester:

[WestTexasS2K]

Just curious, from the pic of the 7's lined up, are they the WCM 7 model, with the Honda S2000 motors in them?

Cheers™

 

Yes those are all WCM S2K models with S2000 drivetrains. Not all S2000 drivetrains are created equal though :reddevil:

[powderbrake]

 

Even if it was just spirited drives in the mountains. I personally think the Atom is very Sevenesque. Kind of like my cousins: I didn't get to pick them but they are still family.

 

John, Al, Mazda, I think we should make a point to invite them to our next national (or even large regional) event. That would be cool!

 

Brent

 

I also believe that it would be fun to run with some Atoms, but if they are "cousins" they have got to be the red-headed milkman's kids. :lol: :lol:

 

The LSIS was defined as a sports car with its engine behind the front wheels, but it is a real stretch to equate that with a rear engined car. Just because a car's front suspension is exposed, and it's a small, 2 seater, open car, and may or may not have fenders in frort or rear, doesn't make it a Se7en. A 32 Ford roadster would meet those criteria. I may not be able to define a Seven completely, but I know one when I see one.

 

I believe the national event sponsord by USA7s should be primarily for LSIS vehicles. If an occasional car of a different vintage arrives it should not be a problem, but if USA7s sponsors a Se7en & Atom event, it should be fully advertised as that, and should not be our main national event. As Randy said in his posting, he could not invite all Se7ens to the Atomfest for the same reasons.

 

I think the Atom is an absolutely fantastic car, and would love to have one for blatting around. It is unique, visually stunning, powerful, and uses advanced suspension techniques. I think it is more like a 4 wheeled motorcycle, being all exposed as you are in an Atom. While we might consider them a bit pricy, the owners obviously feel they are worth it. A fully outfitted Caterham SV with a hot motor in it is in the $60,000 neighborhood, which sure ain't cheap!.

 

I haven't read the article yet and haven't been on their website, but every car entusiast is biased towards his own car, and isn't expected to be or required to be entirely impartial. We can only treat other cars and owners with respect and courtesy. So far the USA7s group has universally accepted all types of LSIS vehicles, and has managed to discuss them without negative references to the other persons car. There is no reason we cannot discuss Atoms in the same manner, even if they aren't an LSIS (IMHO). What is said on other websites is immaterial.

 

[AtomFest]

7evin: Looks like that Atom is a little larger in the 2nd shot. Must be gaining on you!

 

http://usa7s.com/aspnetforum/upload/636057008_pics 125.jpg

http://usa7s.com/aspnetforum/upload/1889757670_pics 125a.jpg

 

Here's an idea, How about we all meet in a central location (like Hallet in OK.) We rent the track for the day

and have some fun. To make it even more fun we can do it in teams and who ever has the slowest team

buys the beer and pays the track rental. :cheers: IE. if the atom team is faster the 7s buy.

 

That would be a great opportunity for all of us to meet and rub elbows. Hallet is a great track. Maybe we could even do a powder puff and let the girls

go out and drive. My wife loves driving MOJO.

 

I'd definitely be in for a day at Hallett. I think it would be great fun and a real oportunity for us to learn mor about each other's cars. I have a couple of portable Traqmates we could use too, to get some comparative cornering G's, segment times, etc. I'll bring a laptop and we replay each car's best laps in a race sim.

 

http://www471.pair.com/stalkerv/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=11782&g2_serialNumber=1

 

Warning, beware of the yellow one with flames in the top left corner. He's just a little bit fast....

 

Xromad: That one looks familiar. Was he at VIR for UTC? or maybe at Blackhawk Farms? Seems like I have some video of a yellow car with flames like that one. The one I remember is V6 powered.

 

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h269/SuperCobraBuilders/UTC/IMGP2480.jpg

 

[Keith]

Regardless of where the engine is, I think the Atom shares the same general intent as the Seven - performance through light weight. Who cares where the engine is? Heck, I've seen a Locost with a mid engine that looked a whole lot like a Seven.

 

I think the Atoms would fit right in with a bunch of Sevens on a tour. The owners are a different sort, but that makes things more interesting.

[xromad]

 

Xromad: That one looks familiar. Was he at VIR for UTC? or maybe at Blackhawk Farms? Seems like I have some video of a yellow car with flames like that one. The one I remember is V6 powered.

 

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h269/SuperCobraBuilders/UTC/IMGP2480.jpg

 

Yep, that's the one. I don't have numbers to quote, but I heard he was very fast at UTCC. He's also done very well at the Run & Gun the last two years.

 

Brent

[Al N.]

I believe the national event sponsord by USA7s should be primarily for LSIS vehicles. If an occasional car of a different vintage arrives it should not be a problem, but if USA7s sponsors a Se7en & Atom event, it should be fully advertised as that, and should not be our main national event. As Randy said in his posting, he could not invite all Se7ens to the Atomfest for the same reasons.

 

Jerry, I agree wholeheartedly that the national meet is primarily for LSIS cars/owners of all sorts. That's what the club was founded around and exists to support.

 

That said, it might be fun to have a joint track day or even a "charge of the light brigade" joint meet some day with Atoms, Se7ens, and Furies in attendance...

 

John M. ran in the 1:37s at the GRM UTCC event at VIR.

[AtomFest]

Yep, that's the one. I don't have numbers to quote, but I heard he was very fast at UTCC. He's also done very well at the Run & Gun the last two years.

Brent

 

Looks like 1:37.024. No doubt that is quick. Except for our breakage (described above), I believe we'd be in similar territory. If we go back, we definitely need to go up a notch or two on our mid-spec engine. VIR is an awesome track. We arrived a day early and the Lotus crowd invited us to join them. We ran the full course and I just loved the climbing esses. We met the Lotus engineers who had worked on the Ecotec engine design team. Nice guys and they had a real interest in the Atom since it housed their "baby."

 

http://www.nasaracing.net/VIR_July_07/grm_utcc_07_results/Final%20UTTC%20Grid.html