1986 Caterham BDR, a new old car

[Wayne Stambaugh]

4 hours ago, sltous said:

If you are already planning on a quick release column and you are looking to bring the wheel towards you the Meteor Motorsports sourced Bell Rapfix quick release https://meteormotorsport.com/shop/caterham/steering-wheels/rapfix-racing-caterham-quick-release-and-top-shaft/ added about an inch of additional column/quick release length compared to the standard Caterham quick release upper column I replaced due to excessive wear.  I am not sure how that compares to the fixed upper steering column.  Cost is somewhat high compared to fabricating a one inch spacer on the lathe.

I think it would be nice to have a quick release wheel and I followed your link and it looks like a great set up. One concern I have about quick release is that I have seen a lot of them and many seem a little loose and have a little more play in them than I’d like to see. Do you have a Rapfix or have you been around them enough to know they are pretty tight units? Thanks for the link. I really apprciate your help.

[Wayne Stambaugh]

1 hour ago, KnifeySpoony said:

A lowered floor does not really reduce the ground clearance. It will give you a lot more room in the cockpit and under the wheel though. It's a popular factory option nowadays.

I’m going to put the car on stands tonight and get under it and have a look. I’m certainly not opposed to the idea if it doesn’t create a ground clearance problem. Forgive me, this is all new to me but I’ll do my best to retain all the info I receive. Thanks!

[sltous]

28 minutes ago, Wayne Stambaugh said:

I think it would be nice to have a quick release wheel and I followed your link and it looks like a great set up. One concern I have about quick release is that I have seen a lot of them and many seem a little loose and have a little more play in them than I’d like to see. Do you have a Rapfix or have you been around them enough to know they are pretty tight units? Thanks for the link. I really apprciate your help.

I have only had the unit from Meteor Motorsport about 2500 miles ago but I have not noticed any slop.  When I apply a small angle (3-5 degree) steering torque to the wheel at rest with tires on the ground, I can see the steering rods actuate immediately and it appears that the tire sidewall deformation is coming before any looseness in the quick release.

 

Huge improvement over the standard Caterham/Lifeline Quick Release that I had before but it has had a lot less usage and a lot fewer removals and reinstallations. 

[Wayne Stambaugh]

6 minutes ago, sltous said:

I have only had the unit from Meteor Motorsport about 2500 miles ago but I have not noticed any slop.  When I apply a small angle (3-5 degree) steering torque to the wheel at rest with tires on the ground, I can see the steering rods actuate immediately and it appears that the tire sidewall deformation is coming before any looseness in the quick release.

 

Huge improvement over the standard Caterham/Lifeline Quick Release that I had before but it has had a lot less usage and a lot fewer removals and reinstallations. 

I think I’ll give that unit a try. I am going to look at the floor as a secondary option. Thanks again!

[IamScotticus]

Those BDR seats are much taller than the old bench squabs.  I can do a side x side picture in a little while.

Those BDR seats should be on sliding rails, adding another inch.  It may be possible to fasten without the rails?

 

It could be argued that the height is close in the very rear.  But I suspect the BDRs bucket form, not made for adults,  will push a person up higher than a flat squab.

 

This velour BDR seat with rails is 22 Lbs.

 

 

Edited October 25, 2023 by IamScotticus

[Wayne Stambaugh]

Someone asked for pictures with the nose removed and I have attach a few. 

 

Tonight I jacked the car up and put it on stands. When I saw how the floor pans were installed by pull rivets I quickly understood how the floor area could be lowered. I took the seat out of the car and jumped in with no seat. I needed about two and a half inches behind my back which is probably about the thickness of the seat’s backrest. Obviously I sat about 3” lower due to no seat cushion and no adjusting rails. This position totally relieved the interference between my left knee an the steering wheel. I jumped back out and took my boots off and got back in the car. It was much easier to feel the pedals and to be sure I wasn’t pushing the brake while I was trying to push the clutch. With only my socks on I pushed the clutch pedal to the floor. It takes a lot of pressure to push the clutch down. Matter of fact it hurt my left foot so bad I could only push it down 3 times. This is a cable clutch and not hydraulic. Is this standard on all Caterhams? If this clutch is as good as it gets I’m going to have to install a steel plate in my left shoe in order to drive it.

[IamScotticus]

Lucky feller, you got the uprated top link.

[Wayne Stambaugh]

15 minutes ago, IamScotticus said:

Lucky feller, you got the uprated top link.

You’ll have to explain that one. I have no idea. you mean the upper control arm?

 

 

 

 

[Anaximander]

Wayne,

Given the tight toe box of your newly acquired car, I would recommend considering buying some Puma Speedcat driving shoes. They are designed to be narrow and will help you with proper foot placement on the accelerator, clutch and brake. They tend to run a bit small and so in some shoes I can wear a size 10, in the Puma's size 11 was ideal. You can find these at the Puma factory store or on Amazon.

[Wayne Stambaugh]

3 hours ago, Anaximander said:

Wayne,

Given the tight toe box of your newly acquired car, I would recommend considering buying some Puma Speedcat driving shoes. They are designed to be narrow and will help you with proper foot placement on the accelerator, clutch and brake. They tend to run a bit small and so in some shoes I can wear a size 10, in the Puma's size 11 was ideal. You can find these at the Puma factory store or on Amazon.

I had read where driving shoes were almost a requirement with this car. Funny you mention your a size 10, I am a 10 too so I’ll look for an eleven. I just hope they are available is black or gray and not only in red or blue or something wild like that. I hope the soles are pretty firm so that clutch pedal doesn’t feel like it’s going to come through my foot when I push it. Thanks for your input, I’m going to definitely look into them.

[Wayne Stambaugh]

After sleeping on it last night, given the fact that the shifter is stuck in neutral, the clutch pedal takes the power of a gorilla to push in, the timing belt and all the hoses need to be replaced, the fuel pump should probably be replaced and on and on and on. I think it may be best to pull the engine and transmission to proceed wlith my work. Remembering that this car has accumlated less than 40 miles in 37 years really concerns me especially anything made of rubber. Anyone with an opinion on this please speak up. Even if the car cranks up and runs it’s not going anywhere until the transmission is free. I don’t like to jump to conclusions but I feel that this is the right thing to do. If anyone thinks there are other things to do first before removal please let me know.

[MV8]

Pulling is probably best considering the trans and engine are vented and have been partially submerged/protected by oil.

As for the clutch stiffness, I'd remove the clutch cable, soak in solvent, then clean and use wheel bearing grease or dry graphite and a motorbike aerosol lubrication adapter. Off the shelf aerosol lubes for bikes work well but go tacky after a month or so, requiring reapplication. Grease pivots, and try again. The alternator and starter should also be taken apart, cleaned and lubed also with wheel bearing grease. Oil the heater blower bushings too.

 

Look for slots in the face of the cam pulley gears, used to set the basic belt timing.

Edited October 25, 2023 by MV8

[theDreamer]

I am so jealous for many reasons. If I’d been in a financial position to order a Caterham back in the day this (except for the colour) would have been it. To have the opportunity to now bring this car to life, the life it should have enjoyed decades ago is a rare treat only a few can know. You must know how lucky you are. Plus, working on such a low mileage car is sooo much easier than restoring an old car. Helped my father with several of his collection, one of which I talk about in the thread “The Other Cars of USA7s Members (Non-Se7ens only)”

I came close when my wife bought an 18 year old NOS Ducati Indiana 650 still in the crate. We uncrated it and she put it together and did the PDI. After she got it running it went to a mechanic friend of ours to check over everything. The one problem she had was bleeding the rear brake. He did that as well as changed the cam belts. Better to let an export with the tools, parts and training do the critical stuff. After a few years and a mere 1500 kilometers it went back to Ducati to be part of its museum. However, I think the then CEO claimed it for himself.

I’ll be watching this build thread and cheering you on. My first thought, as you have said, would be to replace all the rubber bits. One look at the heater hose tells you everything you need to know about condition.

[IamScotticus]

Clutch plates can stick together from sitting.  I would pull it apart.

 

On the shoes, wrestling shoes are thin too.  I don't know how thin the soles are, but worth at look.

[Wayne Stambaugh]

Thanks for your kind comments. I do realize how lucky I am and it’s really unfortunately that I got the car the way I did. Robert, the son of my friend who originally purchased the car was buying parts and beginning to work on the car again. There was a brand new set of tires with it that are only a year old. I talked to Robert on a regular basis and we rode motorcycles together. He had the Ducati model used in the movie Matrix two and I was riding a Ducati Hypermotard. He was a diabetic and that contributed to his short life. He died at 59. I figured his brother would take the Caterham but he had no interest. I wasn’t looking for a Caterham but when I found out this car was for sale, it would have been like letting a piece of the family history get away if I didn’t buy it.

 

I mention the above so you understand I’m a Ducati lover too! Man what a great find! That is a once in a lifetime experience. It’s amazing how a new old stock bike can be around that long without coming out of the crate. 

[Wayne Stambaugh]

7 hours ago, MV8 said:

Pulling is probably best considering the trans and engine are vented and have been partially submerged/protected by oil.

As for the clutch stiffness, I'd remove the clutch cable, soak in solvent, then clean and use wheel bearing grease or dry graphite and a motorbike aerosol lubrication adapter. Off the shelf aerosol lubes for bikes work well but go tacky after a month or so, requiring reapplication. Grease pivots, and try again. The alternator and starter should also be taken apart, cleaned and lubed also with wheel bearing grease. Oil the heater blower bushings too.

 

Look for slots in the face of the cam pulley gears, used to set the basic belt timing.

There is actually a new clutch cable in the box of parts so I think I’ll lube it up good and change it while I have the engine out. I planned on going through the wheel bearing. The brakes are working which really was a surprise. I do think the car should roll with a lot less resistance so I’ll be check to see the brakes aren’t dragging anywhere as well as the wheel bearings. I assume the timing belt will be easier to replace on an engine stand instead of in the car. Thanks for your advice and ideas, again I really appreciate it.

[Wayne Stambaugh]

Back to the floor lowering recommendation. Does anyone have pictures their floor that they lowered or one that was ordered that way? I have a good idea how to do it but no reason to reinvent the wheel. Picturs would pretty much tell the story.

[MV8]

The pans can be ordered but you can see how it is done for different models: https://caterhamparts.co.uk/136-floorpans

Rivet to the inside of the outer rails, from below on the tunnel rails, lap the front over the existing pan, and a reinforcement strip if using bolt in seats versus squabs is a good idea, though squabs make more sense as the pan drop need not be as much. I suggest 3003-h14 from aircraft spruce, .050" thick.

[Croc]

Be careful of ordering the lowered pans for this 1986 chassis.  I think your chassis will be original length chassis and not the later longer versions and so I don't think Caterham made a lowered pan for that chassis?  More research needed.

 

That said, you could readily take the concept you see linked to the Caterham site and fabricate it yourself or have someone fabricate one for your 1986 chassis.  Its very straightforward as kindly outlined by @MV8

 

 

[Wayne Stambaugh]

16 minutes ago, Croc said:

Be careful of ordering the lowered pans for this 1986 chassis.  I think your chassis will be original length chassis and not the later longer versions and so I don't think Caterham made a lowered pan for that chassis?  More research needed.

 

That said, you could readily take the concept you see linked to the Caterham site and fabricate it yourself or have someone fabricate one for your 1986 chassis.  Its very straightforward as kindly outlined by @MV8

 

 

I got the car up on stands last niight and looked at how the floor pans are install. Now with the pictures from the link MV8 provided from the Caterham website, it’s easy to understand how they are doing it. I agree based on their pricing I can fab my own and install them. The idea is eactly what I expected and if I make them myself I can put as much or as little drop in them as I want. Frankly removing the seat track alone may give me what I need. If it doesn’t I’ll proceed from there with lowering the pan. As far as the passenger’s side, I see no reason to drop that floor. There is no steering wheel or pedals to content with for the passenger.