New Member: looking to build a 7 series 2 from scratch

[Gordy]

TLDR: I'm graduating in May, and getting a job in fabrication. I wanna build a replica and have the tools and facilities to do so. Looking for tips and opinions on my plans.

 

little background: my name is Gordon, but my friends call me Gordy. I'm a SR in high school, graduating in May. I've been around cars all my life as my dad used to be a mechanic and has always been fixing cars, and I picked up on it along the way. Although the old man likes cars, he's not really much into them. I however have been fascinated (more of obsessed) with cars for as long as I can remember. By this point I've already owned over a dozen different classics. I recently moved from the desert landscape and open roads of the west to eastern Kentucky. The roads here are alot curvier and fun to drive. I've been debating on buying an old Triumph or MG roadster, but I really love welding and fabrication. I've been in shop classes all throughout high school and have built several motorcycles, buggies, and such from scratch. Here's where the Lotus 7 comes in.

 

I saw one at a car show a few years ago. It was really neat. I think I have a picture somewhere. I talked to the fellow and found it was a kit car. I looked into them, but at the time had nothing but a gravel driveway to work on cars in so discarded the idea and continued rescuing old cars. Well fast forward to last week I was chatting with my best friend and he sent me a video. He was wondering if I knew what car was in the video as I tend to know a lot of old cars or at least be able to figure out what they are. If you hadn't already figured it out, that car was a Lotus 7. We then started talking about them and I informed him there are kit cars available, and they can be built from scratch. we then got into dreaming about building our own and racing them against each other. But I remembered from my research a year ago they are very simple cars. 

 

So I got into looking at the chassis. IMO the chassis looks quite simple, and I could build a tube frame chassis pretty easily. I have the space and equipment to do so now (other than a tubing bender, but I plan to get one). I also have access to a full 4x8 CNC plasma cutting table. So the base chassis is very doable for me. 

 

Now I got into looking at what parts I wanna use. A motorcycle engine seems very appealing to me for this car, or maybe a rotary. Something not typical for most cars. And for rear suspension, I really like the workings of independent suspension, and I think using a Miata rear subframe and corresponding components would make for a nice rear end. A wider track width than the original, but I do want to run wider tires with a more inward offset so that will be closer to original. Not sure how much the track width matters, maybe I can get some help with that. 

 

Why a series 2? If my research is correct the series 2 was made between '61 and '67. IMO the best cars ever made were made in that time period. 

 

So far this is just an idea overall. If some ideas of mine are stupid, feel free to say so. Yes, I am a kid, but no I don't get easily offended. But please offer your reasoning and a better solution. 

 

There's no real time limit on when I want to have this car built by. I just want to get it started sometime before the end of the year. 

 

So here is my build idea...

Tube chassis (not sure exactly what diameter. probably inch and a half? That's what I've used on offroad buggies).

Miata rear subframe

Series 2 basic dimensions.

Superbike Engine

Pretty bare bones car

 

 

Here's my question..

1. Any recommendation on tubing diameter and thickness?

2. Is the Miata subframe a good idea?

3. Should I offset front and rear track width?

4. Does anyone have some chassis drawings of basic dimensions? The more detailed the better.

5. Any tips for when I get around to the bodywork? I'm thinking fiberglass the nose cone and probably rear section and fenders, but the rest with aluminum.

6. Anything else? 

 

 

Thanks guys!

[theDreamer]

Search the internet, there are dozens of simple kits and plans, pdf's and YouTube videos. Someone will come along soon with all the links you'll ever need but here's one to start you on your adventure.

https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/articles/build-your-own-locost-15-easy-steps/

You’ll get lots of support here.

P.S.

As a soon to be grad I'm sure that money is tight and you'll build what you can as you can afford it. However, if you have savings or your father is so inclined to help you might want to look into unfinished projects.

There is a widow in Annapolis MD who is trying to gather together all the parts her late husband had collected for a Locost build. Check out this htread:

 

Edited Tuesday at 04:19 AM by theDreamer

[Gordy]

26 minutes ago, theDreamer said:

Search the internet, there are dozens of simple kits and plans, pdf's and YouTube videos. Someone will come along soon with all the links you'll ever need but here's one to start you on your adventure.

 

https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/articles/build-your-own-locost-15-easy-steps/

 

You’ll get lots of support here.

 

 

Thanks! That was a good read and answered a few questions. 

[JohnCh]

Keith Tanner, the author of the GRM article, also wrote a book many years ago titled "How to Build a Cheap Sports Car" which is now out of print, but copies do come up on the used market occasionally.  I'd spend time digging through his build diary here.  It should help crystalize what's involved.  https://cheapsportscar.net/diary.php?start=1

 

I'd also join https://www.locostusa.com/forums/ and https://locostbuilders.co.uk/forum/ if you haven't already done so.  USA7s is not focused on any single brand, but the majority of owners have cars that started as kits from various companies such as Birkin, Caterham, Stalker, GBS, MK, WCM Ultralite, Westfield, etc.  Although there are Locost owners here, and the requisite knowledge to build one among several of the members, you won't find as much on that topic as you will on those dedicated Locost forums.  Belonging to all of the forums is a good approach, as-is digging through various build threads to see how some of the companies I mentioned above do it. At this point reading everything you can get your hands on will be helpful as you build your knowledge base and develop your build plan. I'm looking forward to hearing what you decide to do.

 

Cheers

John

[Gordy]

10 minutes ago, JohnCh said:

Keith Tanner, the author of the GRM article, also wrote a book many years ago titled "How to Build a Cheap Sports Car" which is now out of print, but copies do come up on the used market occasionally.  I'd spend time digging through his build diary here.  It should help crystalize what's involved.  https://cheapsportscar.net/diary.php?start=1

 

I'd also join https://www.locostusa.com/forums/ and https://locostbuilders.co.uk/forum/ if you haven't already done so.  USA7s is not focused on any single brand, but the majority of owners have cars that started as kits from various companies such as Birkin, Caterham, Stalker, GBS, MK, WCM Ultralite, Westfield, etc.  Although there are Locost owners here, and the requisite knowledge to build one among several of the members, you won't find as much on that topic as you will on those dedicated Locost forums.  Belonging to all of the forums is a good approach, as-is digging through various build threads to see how some of the companies I mentioned above do it. At this point reading everything you can get your hands on will be helpful as you build your knowledge base and develop your build plan. I'm looking forward to hearing what you decide to do.

 

Cheers

John

Thanks! I'll definitely sign up to those. 

 

[Gordy]

10 hours ago, theDreamer said:

Search the internet, there are dozens of simple kits and plans, pdf's and YouTube videos. Someone will come along soon with all the links you'll ever need but here's one to start you on your adventure.

https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/articles/build-your-own-locost-15-easy-steps/

You’ll get lots of support here.

P.S.

As a soon to be grad I'm sure that money is tight and you'll build what you can as you can afford it. However, if you have savings or your father is so inclined to help you might want to look into unfinished projects.

There is a widow in Annapolis MD who is trying to gather together all the parts her late husband had collected for a Locost build. Check out this htread:

 

Ah I hadn't seen the second bit there. I was actually looking at that yesterday. Unfortunately I don't currently have any job, and the old man's in enough debt to make one's head spin, so there's no help there. Fortunately I have a decent truck and don't olan to waste my money on college. I've already got a job lined out for after I graduate and turn 18. The fellow who owns the Fab shop in town is eager to get me on there for a decent wage. But building this car from scratch is what sounds most fun to me, so that's where I'm starting. This project is less about the money than it is the experience just building it from scratch. But I seriously appreciate the suggestion!

[Gordy]

But I don't have anything but time right now. Historical flooding in the area makes it impossible to leave the house so as long as power stays on I can do all the research in the world...

[Vovchandr]

Time to build this

 

[Gordy]

2 minutes ago, Vovchandr said:

Time to build this

 

Ha, very tempting. 

[theDreamer]

25 minutes ago, Gordy said:

Ah I hadn't seen the second bit there. I was actually looking at that yesterday. Unfortunately I don't currently have any job, and the old man's in enough debt to make one's head spin, so there's no help there. Fortunately I have a decent truck and don't olan to waste my money on college. I've already got a job lined out for after I graduate and turn 18. The fellow who owns the Fab shop in town is eager to get me on there for a decent wage. But building this car from scratch is what sounds most fun to me, so that's where I'm starting. This project is less about the money than it is the experience just building it from scratch. But I seriously appreciate the suggestion!

I completely understand and envy the journey you have before you. (I made such a journey over 50 years ago.) So much history to soak in and adventures await.

With all the flooding you may want to think about building something like this from the Grand Tour.

https://www.hagerty.co.uk/articles/car-profiles/7-reasons-why-caterhams-seven-is-still-going-strong/

[Gordy]

1 minute ago, theDreamer said:

I completely understand and envy the journey you have before you. (I made such a journey over 50 years ago.) So much history to soak in and adventures await.

 

With all the flooding you may want to think about building something like this from the Grand Tour.

 

https://www.hagerty.co.uk/articles/car-profiles/7-reasons-why-caterhams-seven-is-still-going-strong/

 

Ya know, that's a really cool car! I plan to use coilovers with a tunable rode height. Of course this car isn't gonna venture on some(most)  of the roads out here. Fortunately Ky Route 3 (south) is the main highway I live off of and it had been recently repaved. That and US23 is where I'll be driving most, so I won't need that. I live up on a hill from the flooding I posted. That's near the bottom of my driveway. Unfortunately our auto shop is down there too, however the car will probably spend most of its time up by the house under the carport or maybe even in the garage up here if I can talk the old man into it. But that is his wood shop and he tends to do his wood working more during the winter season, so it more than likely will be the carport.

[Vovchandr]

Just read the beginning of the thread instead of trolling with the boat as a reaction to the flooded road.

 

You've got quite a road ahead of you. 

 

Full disclosure I think I started my Locost build around 22 years old? I could do basic fabrication but welding etc I was reliant on my fabricator friend to help me through all the complications of the build and the project lived with him. I bought a prebuild Locost frame with Miata base and started fixing all the things wrong with it and slowly sourcing the parts. Time went on. There's no chance of these projects being done in a year or two and as time goes on interest vanes and priorities change making it less and less likely to be done. 

 

Now nearly 15 years later I own a Caterham because the project never got done and while I couldn't even dream of affording one at 22, I was in a position to do so in my 30's so I sold the project to somebody else and learned a lot along the way.

 

I know that nobody who starts these projects thinks they will be in the 90% that never finish them but in reality odds aren't in their favor. I certainly always thought mine would be done and I'd be driving it around yet I also fell into the statistic. Locost forums are well aware how many projects get started and how many actually get to display their finished work. Numbers speak for themselves. 

 

With that said, regardless whether it gets done or not I enjoyed the adventure and learned a lot so I don't mean to discourage you from going through with it, just to have some realistic expectations. 

 

Using a Miata IRS is a good idea that can save you a lot of headaches and many people did use it in their Locosts. Factory designed perfect engineering for suspension and a prefabbed piece that everything bolts up to. 

 

Decision fatigue and project creep will be a real problem. A car has A LOT of parts even a simple one like a 7 and when you build your own you have a logic of "might as well do the best when I start from scratch, why waste money on something inferior" and that logic is overwhelming when you do it over and over again and have to research every little things, seats, wheels, suspension, brakes, pedals (floor vs ceiling mount), shifter, motors, inboard suspension etc etc etc. My advice is keep is as simple of a build as possible, dont go crazy with a bike motor or similar. Miata platform is your best bet. Any engine in a working 7 will be better than a dream engine in a non working 7. If you're so inclined and want to keep practicing your fabricating skills you can always swap the motor down the road. 

 

I understand the adventure is half the fun and budget is an issue at your age but sourcing parts can be an overwhelming task and it will obviously cost you money. If you can get a leg up on this project from the getgo you have a much better chance of finishing said project.

 

Why don't you reach out to the owner here

 

The existing frame might not be of interest to you if you want to build your own (or it might be? who knows frame hasnt been posted yet) but you seem like a perfect candidate to take over and finish the late husbands project. 

 

I know it's far away but navigating a distance battle is a lot easier than navigating sourcing all the parts etc. 

 

Edited Tuesday at 04:09 PM by Vovchandr

[Gordy]

1 hour ago, Vovchandr said:

Just read the beginning of the thread instead of trolling with the boat as a reaction to the flooded road.

 

You've got quite a road ahead of you. 

 

Full disclosure I think I started my Locost build around 22 years old? I could do basic fabrication but welding etc I was reliant on my fabricator friend to help me through all the complications of the build and the project lived with him. I bought a prebuild Locost frame with Miata base and started fixing all the things wrong with it and slowly sourcing the parts. Time went on. There's no chance of these projects being done in a year or two and as time goes on interest vanes and priorities change making it less and less likely to be done. 

 

Now nearly 15 years later I own a Caterham because the project never got done and while I couldn't even dream of affording one at 22, I was in a position to do so in my 30's so I sold the project to somebody else and learned a lot along the way.

 

I know that nobody who starts these projects thinks they will be in the 90% that never finish them but in reality odds aren't in their favor. I certainly always thought mine would be done and I'd be driving it around yet I also fell into the statistic. Locost forums are well aware how many projects get started and how many actually get to display their finished work. Numbers speak for themselves. 

 

With that said, regardless whether it gets done or not I enjoyed the adventure and learned a lot so I don't mean to discourage you from going through with it, just to have some realistic expectations. 

 

Using a Miata IRS is a good idea that can save you a lot of headaches and many people did use it in their Locosts. Factory designed perfect engineering for suspension and a prefabbed piece that everything bolts up to. 

 

Decision fatigue and project creep will be a real problem. A car has A LOT of parts even a simple one like a 7 and when you build your own you have a logic of "might as well do the best when I start from scratch, why waste money on something inferior" and that logic is overwhelming when you do it over and over again and have to research every little things, seats, wheels, suspension, brakes, pedals (floor vs ceiling mount), shifter, motors, inboard suspension etc etc etc. My advice is keep is as simple of a build as possible, dont go crazy with a bike motor or similar. Miata platform is your best bet. Any engine in a working 7 will be better than a dream engine in a non working 7. If you're so inclined and want to keep practicing your fabricating skills you can always swap the motor down the road. 

 

I understand the adventure is half the fun and budget is an issue at your age but sourcing parts can be an overwhelming task and it will obviously cost you money. If you can get a leg up on this project from the getgo you have a much better chance of finishing said project.

 

Why don't you reach out to the owner here

 

The existing frame might not be of interest to you if you want to build your own (or it might be? who knows frame hasnt been posted yet) but you seem like a perfect candidate to take over and finish the late husbands project. 

 

I know it's far away but navigating a distance battle is a lot easier than navigating sourcing all the parts etc. 

 

I have looked alot into this. I am honestly completely on board with KISS. Why design my own fron suspension? Everyone else has done so several times. It might not be perfect, but it's good enough for me! A rear suspension from a Miata would make the rear end a breeze, and the front tubular copied from someone else will do just fine. I know that there's good parts there, but I can't afford even a bag of bolts, let alone the whole project or the gas to get to Maryland. That's an 8hr ish drive there and back, and that's alot if fuel in an old V8 truck. I honestly would be interested in alot, if not all of those parts, but I haven't got anything to offer for them or a way to get them here. I'd be all for a prefab frame for the right deal. Maybe if she has them come graduation I'll see what I can do. 

 

But I did alot more reading last night. I came to the conclusion that although a bike engine would be wicked, it's not really something I should take on. Any reasonable 4cyl and 5 speed will be easier and more practical. Besides, it's more about the handling than the HP. Any amount of HP would push this thing down the road. 

 

I'm all to aware of getting burnt out on projects if they don't have progress or end goal in sight. But I'm confident I can at least build the frame, and if I lose interest it wouldn't be too hard to get rid of. I'm honestly never overly concerned about "getting my money back" outta something that I've had my fun with. Besides, if it's just sitting there it's way less useful than whatever someone will give you for it.

[anduril3019]

All good advice above!

 

Here's a good place to start: 

 

https://www.locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=117246#p117246

 

https://www.locostusa.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=42

 

I bought my first piece of steel about 5 years ago and now have a chassis that's 95% complete, as well as about 80% of the parts I need to finish. I've also got a family, a full time job, and a side business. So far, I haven't fallen into the 90% of stalled builds category, but can easily see how it happens. Realistically, I'd like to have it on the road in 3-5 years. I enjoy the parts sourcing, problem solving, and fabrication, so make sure you find the right balance between process and getting a finished product. Go for it, and don't be afraid to adjust as your time and resources allow.

 

https://www.locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=24456

 

 

[Gordy]

5 minutes ago, anduril3019 said:

All good advice above!

 

Here's a good place to start: 

 

https://www.locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=117246#p117246

 

https://www.locostusa.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=42

 

I bought my first piece of steel about 5 years ago and now have a chassis that's 95% complete, as well as about 80% of the parts I need to finish. I've also got a family, a full time job, and a side business. So far, I haven't fallen into the 90% of stalled builds category, but can easily see how it happens. Realistically, I'd like to have it on the road in 3-5 years. I enjoy the parts sourcing, problem solving, and fabrication, so make sure you find the right balance between process and getting a finished product. Go for it, and don't be afraid to adjust as your time and resources allow.

 

https://www.locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=24456

 

 

Well, my answers to all those qustions but the disposible income are yes. Which I am waiting for a time when I have a good job, I am just in the planning stage so I am ready to start after graduation. Dad and I have a 42x100 auto shop. He doesn't care if I get a parts car as long as I have it fully dismantled and the parts I'm keeping in one spot and the rest of it heading to the scrap yard within a month. That's a fair agreement. But he doesn't mind if I use the space for my build, and I have all the tooling except a bender, but am able to get one. 

[slowdude]

I hate to be this guy.

 

Two things:

 

@Vovchandr is right.

 

And:

 

Given the scope creep, you're better off with a running MGB with some rust.

 

Why do I say this? Everything vovchandr has mentioned. I know the hubris of being an 18 year old will spur you to go out and think you can do it.

 

You can, but you'll be 28 and so sick of the car that you will hate it.

 

There are a few locost builds out there that I follow on IG. Some are done by serious professional fabricators and even they suffer from burnout.

 

If you want a project car, I've got a 69 cortina GT with matching numbers that I'd let go to a good home for someone with your welding skills.

[Vovchandr]

It unfortunately does take decades and lots of money to become even a "regular knowledgeable" car guy and lots of funds to acquire tools to learn on your own stuff. 

 

I've been around cars all my life, worked at an autopart store (forces you to learn a lot) and worked on everything I own. Build up my tool collection over time and yet I still find myself lost troubleshooting basics on the Caterham and I still don't know anything about tuning. 

 

While I again encourage taking this on as a learning opportunity, I also want to echo what a lot of other experienced people are saying and why they are saying it as I've been down this road. 

 

Honestly for a first project a Cross Kart will be a better idea. FAR easier and cheaper to build. Center seating. Faster. Just not road legal in most states without hoops. Although in your state it might be easy. 

 

This leads me to a question that you're unlikely to answer honestly at your age.

 

You want to build this for yourself or do you want to be seen in one of these by others? Both are valid and we are all guilty of both to some degree. In other words if you could have one complete for free right this moment would would you just want to drive it or you'd still want to go through process of building one?

 

I ask because after being a bike for 20 years rider I've seen this 100 times with people wanting a bike and asking for advice. Most didn't want to actually ride but rather wanted to be seen as a rider by others on cool bike which is fine but at least they should honest with themselves. They end up on a scary fast cool looking bike thats uncomfortable and they never ride. You see all these bikes for sale that are 10 years old with 2k miles on them.

 

The vanity only lasts so long until reality of situation sits in and owning a race bike as a regular commuter stops making sense. 

Edited Wednesday at 03:14 PM by Vovchandr

[Gordy]

17 minutes ago, Vovchandr said:

It unfortunately does take decades and lots of money to become even a "regular knowledgeable" car guy and lots of funds to acquire tools to learn on your own stuff. 

 

I've been around cars all my life, worked at an autopart store (forces you to learn a lot) and worked on everything I own. Build up my tool collection over time and yet I still find myself lost troubleshooting basics on the Caterham and I still don't know anything about tuning. 

 

While I again encourage taking this on as a learning opportunity, I also want to echo what a lot of other experienced people are saying and why they are saying it as I've been down this road. 

 

Honestly for a first project a Cross Kart will be a better idea but that poses the question that you're unlikely to answer honestly at your age. FAR easier and cheaper to build. Center seating. Faster. Just not road legal in most states without hoops. Although in your state it might be easy. 

 

You want to build this for yourself or do you want to be seen in one of these by others? Both are valid and we are all guilty of both to some degree. In other words if you could have one complete for free right this moment would would you just want to drive it or you'd still want to go through process of building one?

 

I ask because after being a bike rider I've seen this 100 times with people wanting a bike and asking for advice. Most didn't want to actually ride but rather wanted to be seen as a rider by others which is fine but at least he honest with themselves. They end up on a scary fast cool looking bike thats uncomfortable and they never rode. The vanity only lasts so long until reality of situation sits in and owning a race bike as a regular commuter stops making sense. 

It's all of it really. I would love to build one, drove one, and of course be seen in one. Not that there's anyone I can think of in particular that I'd want to see me in one, but it would still be cool. 

[Gordy]

8 hours ago, slowdude said:

I hate to be this guy.

 

Two things:

 

@Vovchandr is right.

 

And:

 

Given the scope creep, you're better off with a running MGB with some rust.

 

Why do I say this? Everything vovchandr has mentioned. I know the hubris of being an 18 year old will spur you to go out and think you can do it.

 

You can, but you'll be 28 and so sick of the car that you will hate it.

 

There are a few locost builds out there that I follow on IG. Some are done by serious professional fabricators and even they suffer from burnout.

 

If you want a project car, I've got a 69 cortina GT with matching numbers that I'd let go to a good home for someone with your welding skills.

That Cortina is a wicked little car. How much would you be asking? I'd definitely be interested but it would take me a while to get to that point. 

[slowdude]

@Vovchandr excellent parallel to moto riders.

 

Lot of guys more interested in the look of the bike and being seen vs the practicality etc of it. (As I dump my GS in Gavins driveway).

 

@Gordy if you're serious, we can chat needs floors and quarter panels, plus full mechanical refresh.

 

Engine and trans are the same as in an early 7, and a live axle setup which is very similar to a 7.