New Member: looking to build a 7 series 2 from scratch

[Gordy]

So I would like to build the chassis woth round tubing. Would this bender do the trick or should I get an Eastwood bender?

https://www.harborfreight.com/tubing-roller-99736.html

[11Budlite]

49 minutes ago, Gordy said:

So I would like to build the chassis woth round tubing. Would this bender do the trick or should I get an Eastwood bender?

https://www.harborfreight.com/tubing-roller-99736.html

 

I don't think that HF tubing roller will do the minimum radius necessary to bend the rear tubing of a Seven chassis. The Eastwood or other brands with multiple width and radius dies is what you'll probably want. I bought a JD2 tubing bender with 1.5" and .75" dies to do some fabrication. I made this side impact bar with the bender, it did a really nice job with a smooth radius and no kinks.

[Gordy]

9 minutes ago, 11Budlite said:

 

I don't think that HF tubing roller will do the minimum radius necessary to bend the rear tubing of a Seven chassis. The Eastwood or other brands with multiple width and radius dies is what you'll probably want. I bought a JD2 tubing bender with 1.5" and .75" dies to do some fabrication. I made this side impact bar with the bender, it did a really nice job with a smooth radius and no kinks.

Sweet, thanks! I figured that would be the case. 

[anduril3019]

I was able to make this work for my rear tubes and dash hoop ends, I found one for under $100.

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/196324279196?gQT=1

 

Worked great for the 3/4" tubing but it won't do anything like what @11Budlite is showing for roll bar hoops or side impact bars. The curved tubes at the cockpit sides are 1" dia., those I bent by hand. Besides those few tubes, everything else on the chassis is straight.

[Gordy]

51 minutes ago, anduril3019 said:

I was able to make this work for my rear tubes and dash hoop ends, I found one for under $100.

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/196324279196?gQT=1

 

Worked great for the 3/4" tubing but it won't do anything like what @11Budlite is showing for roll bar hoops or side impact bars. The curved tubes at the cockpit sides are 1" dia., those I bent by hand. Besides those few tubes, everything else on the chassis is straight.

So I wanted to build my full frima as a tube chassis and just put bends in them. I don't think it would be all too much more work and it would look really nice. Plus I wouldn't have to do math for compound cuts, just use my tubing notcher. What's your take on that approach?

[anduril3019]

I'd say it's time to start a build thread over at locostusa.com. In the spirit of previous posts, even if you go with an existing chassis plan, you'll still have hundreds if not thousands of decisions to make along the way. As you ask questions online, research first, then try and be specific, using drawings and photos when possible so that there is an answerable question. Will this approach work? Maybe. It cold be awesome, or, it could kill you. I wouldn't deviate from proven designs and practices without the ability to validate the engineering, or at least without having access to someone willing and able who can. This isn't meant to discourage you but, again, as others have said, to encourage you down a path that has a chance of success!

[IamScotticus]

Here are some suggestions for reading 

 

 

So, let's start with this, the Trials car. 

 

Made from the tiny Austin 7, this basic design led to the Lotus 6 then Lotus 7, a wider and longer street version of the Trials car, but not much larger.  This means the origins of the 7 come from parts and builds based on the very small cars available in UK at the time. They were cheap, plentiful,  and perfect.  The charm and attraction in the form of the Lotus 7 is the amazing confluence of parts, from around 5 different cars, working together so well.  60 years ago in England.

 

There is one problem,  these cars or parts aren't found in the USA in the average breakers yard.

 

What made the 7 come together easily for UK builders?  A chassis expertly built with suspension included and access to parts that suited the car.  Back then, there were small engines that fit in the space frame, the transmissions were narrow and simple, the rear axles were light and narrow.  

I think what challenges 7 scratch builders the most is getting parts that suit, and fit, the car.  But how many rear wheel drives are there to pull parts from here and now?

 

You have to build a chassis around the parts.  I anticipate that the end result will likely be a chassis much larger than standard,  then the available fiberglass body parts will look ridiculous on it.  You could have them beaten out of sheet metal.  

I am in favor of a larger 7 to accept a variety of engines starting with the 2L "Pinto" (see Racer Walsh).  Possibly using a Dayna rear diff and T-5 transmission.   

 

You want to start with components that have plenty of support in Spares and support from a racing class or other fan base to get help from.  All this, if you find the right parts and support,  for a completed project under $20k and within your lifetime,  will probably not be a Seven, unless you find a Suzuki Samaurai or Geo Tracker donor vehicle.  Or Flyin Miata Westfield.

 

I'm all for building projects,  but despite it's simplicity,  the 7 is a challenge to do well and have some value in it when finished.  I've seen too many projects get stalled on something; life, money, family,  job, whatever.  Better to buy a finished car from a reputable constructor like Birkin, Westfield, Caterham, etc., and tear that apart and build up as you like.  At least you have a well engineered chassis to build on.  The money will be the same either way. 

 

I would like to see you driving and enjoying a 7, taking five years to pay off the loan, not taking five years to build something that may not drive as well and definitely won't have any value.

 

Edited Thursday at 03:54 AM by IamScotticus

[Gordy]

I planned to use mostly Miata parts. I would like to stay close to original size. And I will get that reading material soon. I'll look more into the effort. However I really don't like the idea of going into debt for anything. If anything I would just buy a Miata for cheap and make it into a fun car rather than buy a premade car and pay it off. 

[IamScotticus]

The Miata I was referring to is the Westfield Miata kit like this 

https://usa7s.net/ips/topic/13517-danms-westfield-miata/

[Gordy]

4 minutes ago, IamScotticus said:

The Miata I was referring to is the Westfield Miata kit like this 

https://usa7s.net/ips/topic/13517-danms-westfield-miata/

So basically he used a miata to put suspension and brakes around a kit car? Well that's kinda what I had in mind, just without the kit. 

[IamScotticus]

22 hours ago, Gordy said:

So basically he used a miata to put suspension and brakes around a kit car? Well that's kinda what I had in mind, just without the kit. 

Yes, although it was a Westfield chassis designed for Miata donor parts.  

I would try to build that chassis, or get one that you can drop Miata parts onto.

Westies are fiberglass bodies.

https://www.rcnmag.com/garage/sensible-seven

 

Here you go, lucky, Westy is back from the brink of oblivion 

https://westfield-sportscars.co.uk/final-edition-sdv

Edited yesterday at 03:19 AM by IamScotticus

[Gordy]

Well I put some thought into it. As much as I would love to build a car from scratch, I just don't think a 7 is a good option for me with the assurance that it won't get finished. I'll stick to my original plan of buying my dream car and building it up with the parts I want as that will be a much more satisfying project to spend a few years perfecting. Thanks for the help.

[Vovchandr]

7 minutes ago, Gordy said:

Well I put some thought into it. As much as I would love to build a car from scratch, I just don't think a 7 is a good option for me with the assurance that it won't get finished. I'll stick to my original plan of buying my dream car and building it up with the parts I want as that will be a much more satisfying project to spend a few years perfecting. Thanks for the help.

 

It's a reasonable conclusion. 

 

What's the dream car? You're still more than welcome to hang out here and ask questions. Lots of "seasoned" car people here who don't mind shelling out advice. 

 

I personally still remember being in highschool with a Jeggs catalog circling all the things I wanted to put on my CRX with no rhyme or reason. My shop teacher at the time was smart and talked some sense into me. It appears I didn't need shiny hoses and an oil cooler (etc) on a stock 1.6 liter single over head cam motor. 

[Gordy]

1 minute ago, Vovchandr said:

 

It's a reasonable conclusion. 

 

What's the dream car? You're still more than welcome to hang out here and ask questions. Lots of "seasoned" car people here who don't mind shelling out advice. 

 

I personally still remember being in highschool with a Jeggs catalog circling all the things I wanted to put on my CRX with no rhyme or reason. My shop teacher at the time was smart and talked some sense into me. It appears I didn't need shiny hoses and an oil cooler (etc) on a stock 1.6 liter single over head cam motor. 

The dream is a MG midget or a Triumph GT6/ MGB GT. Any of them I'll settle for, but I am more interested in the midget. I'd probably settle for an MGB too. Basically the smaller the better. The midget I would likely keep stock for a while with just a webber carb and 5 speed triumph transmission swap until I get all the parts gathered to swap to a modern 4 cylinder and 6 speed transmission (probably a Miata engine still). That's a build I've had brewing in my brain since I discovered the MG midget in the hot wheels bin at the local M&W years ago. I fell in love with those tiny little cars but sadly have never been able to get my hands on one. I get the engine swap is ambitious, but it's doable. But I figured money would be better spent on one of those cars to drive and enjoy. 

 

It would be a nice car to put my MAC Tools monster tach in. The tach is probably too big for that car lol

[IamScotticus]

Yea, Moss has the stuff for those.

https://mossmotors.com/

 

The AC Cobra and Sunbeam Tiger got big engines squeezed in and they're awesome.  I still remember the Tiger I heard fire up years ago.  Never forgot it.

[Gordy]

2 minutes ago, IamScotticus said:

Yea, Moss has the stuff for those.

https://mossmotors.com/

 

The AC Cobra and Sunbeam Tiger got big engines squeezed in and they're awesome.  I still remember the Tiger I heard fire up years ago.  Never forgot it.

I don't want a big engine, just something a little more modern with a bit better power. 

[IamScotticus]

Just now, Gordy said:

I don't want a big engine, just something a little more modern with a bit better power. 

4AGE!

[Gordy]

2 minutes ago, IamScotticus said:

4AGE!

That's not a bad option. I was more thinking the 1.6 Miata engine. There's tons of wrecked Miatas around I can get for cheap. From everything I've seen the engine is easy to wire up and I can swap to dual Webber carburetors. I really don't mind if I need to do a little bit of a cowel hood or a hood bulge in it either. 

[Vovchandr]

1 hour ago, Gordy said:

The dream is a MG midget or a Triumph GT6/ MGB GT. Any of them I'll settle for, but I am more interested in the midget. I'd probably settle for an MGB too. Basically the smaller the better. The midget I would likely keep stock for a while with just a webber carb and 5 speed triumph transmission swap until I get all the parts gathered to swap to a modern 4 cylinder and 6 speed transmission (probably a Miata engine still). That's a build I've had brewing in my brain since I discovered the MG midget in the hot wheels bin at the local M&W years ago. I fell in love with those tiny little cars but sadly have never been able to get my hands on one. I get the engine swap is ambitious, but it's doable. But I figured money would be better spent on one of those cars to drive and enjoy. 

 

It would be a nice car to put my MAC Tools monster tach in. The tach is probably too big for that car lol

 

This one is at my work. Pretty sure driven by a pretty high up person at a very large company. 

[11Budlite]

10 hours ago, Gordy said:

That's not a bad option. I was more thinking the 1.6 Miata engine. There's tons of wrecked Miatas around I can get for cheap. From everything I've seen the engine is easy to wire up and I can swap to dual Webber carburetors. I really don't mind if I need to do a little bit of a cowel hood or a hood bulge in it either. 

 

My first car was a Bugeye Sprite, and I had a '72 Midget when the Bugeye got totaled when a lady ran a stop sign. She said she never saw it! Great little cars, but they are tiny (much like a Seven). The 4AGE has been done before, but I think I would go with a 1.6L Miata motor like you said. Much easier to find than the 4AGE, and nobody wants to use the 1.6L in a tuned Miata because the 1.8L has a lot more potential and there's a lot more of them. I have a 1.6L Miata motor sitting in my basement out of '92 Miata with 150k miles. I haven't mic'd it yet but the crank looks like new. Still haven't decided what project car it's going to end up in but maybe I'll replicate my first car but with a modern drivetrain!

 

Now if you go a bit larger to an MGB there is a ton more space for any kind of motor you'd want to put under the hood. Miata, Duratec, Ecotec, V6's, V8's have all been done, with lots of build threads for viewing. The later cars are already modified to take the Rover/Buick alum V8. Also a ton more space in the interior too. I owned a '64 MGB for almost 3 decades and drove it all the time. Check out:

 

https://www.mgexp.com/forum/

http://www.britishv8.org/

Edited 16 hours ago by 11Budlite