Crash Safety in a 7?

[the_rainman]

I posted the below on the other USA 7 forum the other day and got the best crash protection 7 thread i have ever seen. I was wondering what this list would be able to add to the conversation. Again, rear and side crash protection are the main questions. If i did have really robust side bars that were high enough to make sure the SUV bumper hit them and not my head and if i had a fuel cell and a spare tire in the back, what exactly will happen in the event of being hit a decent clip (20-50mph?) in the side (at speed) or rear (at a dead stop)??? Thanks! Here is the original post...

 

 

Hi yall...

 

I bought my first 7 this year and have been driving it for about 3

months now, lately as a daily driver to work and back, over 50 miles

a day. These last months have been my 'evaluation period' on owning

a 7, as i couldn't decide if i could live with one in my situation

without having one and driving it.

 

3 main issues have come to the surface after owning one for awhile.

Crash safety, struggling to find time to work on it, and the

possibility of needing to go to Sweden for awhile in a couple of

years. Now, the original builder/owner of my car is ready to have

her back and i am thinking of backing out of a 7 for the moment due

to the above issues.

 

I am a single dad with two pre-teen girls, one autistic, and finding

time to put towards the 7 has been a challenge. My ex is Swedish and

i might end up going to Sweden for 5 or so years in order for our

daughters to be 'part-Swedish'.

 

The big issue though is crash safety. I had told myself for years

that i would put serious sidebars on the 7 when i got one, and that

that would make it 'at least as safe as a miata'. I am really

wondering about this now though as i go thru 4-way after 4-way

driving around town.

 

What are everyone's opinions about crash safety, both in rear and

side impacts? I have a fuel cell and kept the spare tire on so that

will help with rear enders. I was going to put on serious side bars

(thick, sticking farther out and higher up than the stock Caterham

sidebars). Assuming getting hit on the side or rear between say

20mph and 40mph (anything higher i am toast in any car), will we

avoid serious injury?

 

I am ferrying around my kids every day in the car to camps, etc. I

simply cant put them in an unduly dangerous situation, nor can i let

myself get hurt, as i am my autistic daughter's anchor in life. She

depends on me being here and healthy. Am i fooling myself that i

could be even as safe as say a miata, in a 7, even with the right

sidebars and fuel cells, etc?

 

I have scoured the web for threads about this issue and cant find

much. It seems that everyone is doing what i have been doing, which

is to kinda accept the risk and not talk about it much. The safety

issue become more and more of a concern to me as i have lived with

one in traffic in a big city.

 

My plan, should i decide to sell the 7, is to go dump about 18k into

a very nice (somewhat modded, with 200+whp and a serious coilover

suspension) Mini Cooper S. I would drive that very safe car while

the kids are still young, then in 3-5 years or so could get a 7

again, this time put a 'green high mpg' engine in her and use the now

older mini as a fantastic family backup car.

 

However, if i still don't feel that the 7 is safe in the event of a

fairly hard side or rear impact, i shouldn't have one now OR later

either, since, as i said before, i have a responsibility to my

autistic daughter.

 

The 7 is SUCH an awesome car, nothing else like it. Can i make it

safe enough with the right bars on it?

 

Thanks!

Randy

 

 

[yellowss7]

A side hit at 50 eh? I'm no engineer, but you might have trouble surviving in any car much less a 7.

 

Direct Side hits in a seven will not be pretty regardless of the size of the car/truck/suv.

 

As for rear hits at speed...??? not much crush area behind you. Better hope your foot is off the brake and their is no one infront of you.

 

Sorry for the pessimism, but jack the car up and look at the diameter of the chassis tubes.

 

If you're talking about putting a full cage on, you probalby gain some protection, but you better be wearing a helmet, and have good padding on the bars. Just my two cents. Tom

[Mondo]

 

I look at it as a notch above my old sportbike.... while the bike could be argued as more visible (higher) and more nimble (needing less space to get out of harm's way) I always felt it would only take a little oil,sand etc.. in a corner to have me sliding off the road. And I think the 7 is more visible when it comes to making left turns in front of opposing traffic.

 

I wouldn't commute in the 7 or a bike (maybe if gas keeps going up and there are less and less big cars on the road). So, for me, it comes down to having fun in the twisties and on the track. The 7 is safer to me.

 

The most I would do is put on some side bars but I'm not there yet.

[slngsht]

Well, my opinion is the same here as it was over there... keep the seven, buy a used 4 door sedan. I've owned 2 buicks, both of which I bought used. combined, I've put 130K miles on them. Combined they cost me $14K to buy, never left me stranded, and in the 10 years I owned them, I only replaced 2 water pumps and 2 alternators. In addition to the van, they've served our family well.

 

The seven is not going to win any head to head crash battles. I saw the arguments on the sevens list about how it's light and it will "bounce"... EVEN IF true, that does not make it safe. Assuming it does bounce around, can you imagine the G forces your body will experience?

 

I wouldn't drive the seven everyday... it's a pain in the a** to haul kids in it - different if you were by yourself - back when I commuted, if the weather was nice, I always took my seven.

 

It all comes down to risk and reward. I'm sure there are many parents who feel a mini is in no way safe enough for hauling kids. After all, if a F250 hit a mini in the back at 30 mph, the back seat passengers won't stand a chance. The same argument that's being used to justify why a seven is not safe can easily apply to a mini, smart car, etc...

 

I CAN tell you this - I have never even thought about selling my seven, but I did briefly think about selling my vette. My kids were in tears :lol: They love the uniqueness of these cars in the sea of minivans and econoboxes all their friends arrive in. That's worth something

 

[lowflyer]

I was watching a TV show last night about the sport bike scene in Southern California.

 

The fellow made several mentions of the advantage of his sport bike over the "cage" he uses for his daily commute. The "cage" was his word for a modern sedan.

 

He discussed the advantage of quick acceleration and braking, being able to see well and such, but finally admitted that the bike was not going to protect him in a car vs. bike impact.

 

I kind of view our 7's as sport bikes for the balance impaired.

[slngsht]

I was watching a TV show last night about the sport bike scene in Southern California.

 

The fellow made several mentions of the advantage of his sport bike over the "cage" he uses for his daily commute. The "cage" was his word for a modern sedan.

 

He discussed the advantage of quick acceleration and braking, being able to see well and such, but finally admitted that the bike was not going to protect him in a car vs. bike impact.

 

I kind of view our 7's as sport bikes for the balance impaired.

 

heh, you don't need to hit a car with a bike to mess yourself up. You can do that all by yourself with a regular concrete curb or guard rail will do, even if you have full gear on.

[powderbrake]

The safest car is a semi.

The next safest car is a large SUV.

The next is a large sedan.

The next is a small sedan.

The next is a sub compact.

The next is a seven.

The next is a motorcycle.

 

Get the picture? SIZE RULES ! And you can't control the other drivers.

 

There is no justification for a seven. It is driven because it is FUN.

 

We all have to decide between risk and reward in everything we do in life. So if you feel you need some fun, drive a seven, if you feel it is too risky for you or your kids, then don't do it. Just don't kid yourself that a lot of bars around a seven will protect you from a bigger car.

 

There is NO way to take all the risks out of life, and still have an enjoyable life.

[David C]

Just a seven wanna be (dismantling a Miata for a Westy kit) but safety is not black and white. You can add degrees of safety (painting you car a bright color, driving with lights on, adding bars, running a fuel cell instead of a regular tank, driving with a helmet, nomex suit, HANS, etc etc.)

 

And a modern small sedan or even a sub-compact is safer than an older SUV/truck/large sedan. You won't be able to do much about the impact forces but whatever you can do to avoid being squashed/crushed/burned will help as those are the most likely way you will be injured/killed. My son slid the Miata into a power pole (power poles and trees win over any vehicle) sideways and the impact was enough to total the car but it hit right smack on the down tube of a diagonally braced Hard Dog roll bar and he was secured in a Corbeau seat with 5-pt harnesses. He only had a small scratch on his knee and a severly bruised wallet and ego.

 

But mass is certainly a BIG (haha) factor. A lot of crash testing results are smashing into a fixed barrier. So you can have a 5 star rating with a big Mercedes and a 5 star rating with a Smart car but just watch the video of the head on between a Smart car and a Mercedes and the big Merc hardly slows down and the Smart car is punted backwards and sideways and tumbles several times.

 

But my seven will be a bright color, I'll probably drive with my lights on, I plan on running a fuel cell, and plan on adding additional protection.

 

I think being an EMT and going to accident scenes pushes me towards adding whatever degrees of safety I can and still have fun (I was riding a motorcycle at the time and always wore a helment even though it wasn't legally required). I've got two (don't ask) BMW 850's, both with modded V-12's and six-speeds, and they are quite safe but they will never feel like the Miata, much less what I imagine a seven to feel like.

 

Any body want to trade a seven for an 850? You can take your pick - Arrest me red with a 350 HP V-12 or Calypso Red (burgundy) 320 HP V-12.

 

Dave

 

 

 

 

[slngsht]

I've got two (don't ask) BMW 850's, both with modded V-12's and six-speeds

 

I have to ask... Spare parts car?

 

One of my neighbors has one.

[David C]

I have to ask... Spare parts car?

 

What, a V-8 not enough for ya? Got the hankerin' for a V-12 6-speed seven? :_deadhorse:

 

The Arrest-me red one is some assembly required and was bought as a project. A friend had health problems and I bought it midstream in a complete interior changeover & some body panels need to be reinstalled. After wrenching on & driving the Miata my enthusiasm is waning for overly complex heavy cars. Basically you take a Boeing 747 and stuff the hydraulic and electrical systems into a car sized space and drape a bodacious sheetmetal body around it and that's an 850.

 

As a daily driver the car is reliable. As an occaisional use car it is more of a PITA. There are so many computers in the car and they all interconnect that if the voltage isn't maintained one will go insane and affect 10 others so good luck finding out where the problem lies. Recent example: the windows drop down out of their tracks when you pull on the inner/outer door latch. Imagine my surprise when the pop-up headlights started dancing up and down with the windows and then would get hung up part way through their cycle. Or seats and power mirrors that start moving in the reverse direction of the command. Or power adjustable steering wheels that just start moving on their own. Or my auxillary fan that has decided to run forever (due to AC refrigerant running low), or windshield wipers that do a few cycles and then quit mid-wipe (bad windshield squirt motor (one of two of course) that caused a fuse to blow that freaked out a relay that affected the computer that runs the wipers). And there are two of everything so there's twice as much to go wrong (two fuel pumps, filters, systems, two ignition systems, two DOUBLE-WALLED exahust systems, two intake systems, two sets of computers to keep everything running and one computer to keep the two problem children talking to each other). Running it often seems to keep the fluid leakage & electrical gremlins at bay.

 

I've autocrossed it a few times and it does surprisingly well however tire wear equals the GDP of many third world countries.

 

I'm ready for something simpler and lighter.

[JBH]

Per mile driven, a motorcyclist is 20 times more likely to die than the driver of a car. A Seven is probably better than a motorcycle, but I doubt much better. Side bars won't do you much good except in low speed impacts. You really have to think about what would happen to your head and neck in these circumstances. If your head hits the roll bar or a side bar, it really hasn't provided you much protection. Most head injuries in automobiles occur when the head hits the top of the window frame.

 

Look underneath the rear of your car. Is the tank sandwiched between the rear axles and rear panel? It's not hard to imagine an even minor rear end collision squashing and rupturing the tank. Remember the Ford Pinto - same deal. A fuel cell will help, but it has to be mounted above the axles.

 

Given your situation, using your Seven as a daily driver is a mistake. Take the advice given above and buy a car that has front and side impact air bags (not just side curtains). Save the Seven for back roads where you know you have better control over the driving environment and you are not passing through a lot of intersections.

 

Glad you are thinking about this - you are irreplaceable.

[sporqster]

I took my spare tire off, then got to thinking... that's the only thing between the yahoo in the car behind and 10 gallons of premium fuel... maybe oughta put that spare tire and spare tire bracket back on. And make the bracket out of solid rod. Not much of a bumper, but I guess it's better than literally nothing.

 

I don't like to think of my se7en as a dangerous car... it's more like a slightly safer motorcycle.

 

And having said that, I did roll my 7 in a ditch once... got some friends to help me get upright and drove away with no injury and only a cracked fiberglass fender, which I fixed for $6 worth of fiberglass resin and a can of rattle can paint. That was getting off pretty daggum light for driving like an idiot on a public road, I thought.

[Ron Payne]

Here is a link to someone driving a locost that had been hit in the rear at approx. 35 mph. He was stopped. It drove him into the van in front of him. http://www.locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1400&start=105