Are Hoosiers it?

[jimrankin]

(got a little carried away but there is a real question in this post)

I'm going to be tracking my recently purchased WCM S2K and the tires and wheels on it are more for street use (see them in the parts for sale listing) being a bit on the narrow side. I've been tracking an '04 MINI Cooper S since I bought it new and have been through several sets of track tires, the last two sets being the Falken's that really worked well until it gets to over a 100 at ThunderHill (happens quite often there). I have run against other MINI's with Hoosiers and didn't seem to be giving up much, very little in fact, for a half the price tire. Being asemetric you can't swap sides to use the complete tire but I haven't had a lot of uneven wear on the Falkens so it wasn't an issue.

Since I don't like the look of the tire/wheel set up on the car now I know I'll be changing the "Street" set for something a good bit more agressive.

I guess my question is this: Has anyone with a 7, especially an S2K, had a chance to really see if the Hoosiers are enough of an improvement to make it worth the investment of having them for track days only. Seems from what I've been reading on this site that tire wear on the track isn't as big an issue as it is on heavier rides so sharing track/street duty is a real option. Keep in mind that the street tires I will purchase and the street wheels will be bought with grip and weight in mind more than just looks. I don't motocross or drift, just like twisty tracks with some room to get up some serious speed too. Anybody have some info?

[rnr]

I just bought my Ultralite 10 days ago but after spending most of Saturday on opposite lock IMHO the Falkens have nowhere near the grip you need for the cars power. I will likely end up using R888s as my standard street/track tire.

 

I will be running some old Hoosiers (from the PO) at the next Golden Gate Lotus Club autocross (http://gglotus.org/blog/?p=427) in Santa Clara and you are welcome to come down and give the car a try.

Edited September 23, 2009 by rnr
autocross link

[shiva]

Been using the R888 as double-duty track/street tires...

 

It's great tire, never seam to wear out.

I've got over 10 track days on the same set and they are still full of thread (sadly! lol)

 

But they don't have the grip of real slicks. A good threadwear 40 tire will be a couple seconds faster each turn that your average 100 TW (RA-1, R888, etc).

 

But for the fun they provide, excellent starting rubber! And will last at least a full season.

[jimrankin]

Santa Clara autocross, you must be a local to the Bay Area also. I'm in San Mateo but have the car warehoused in Milpitas as I didn't have much luck trying to register it so it's been a paperweight for the trailer since I got it. What are you doing for the DMV, SB100?

The Falkens were pretty decent on the MINI but it's not light for a small car and front wheel drive to boot. Was mostly a question of getting a lot of rubber on the road and the big contact patches on the Falkens did that pretty well. I also down sized to 16" (Just cleared the Wilwoods) and went really light and max width on the wheels when I went to the Falkens so that may have been part of the improvement over the two previous track sets.

Thanks for the input and lets get together and drool over our cars. LOL

[rnr]

Santa Clara autocross, you must be a local to the Bay Area also. I'm in San Mateo but have the car warehoused in Milpitas as I didn't have much luck trying to register it so it's been a paperweight for the trailer since I got it. What are you doing for the DMV, SB100?

I'm from Santa Calara myself - I noticed your mention of Thunderhill which is why I brought up the autocross I bought a pre-registered CA SB-100 car which made the DMV a 10 minute process. One thing I can tell you is that my title says that the car model year is 0000 - I dont know whay they were telling you to be 2006

 

The Falkens were pretty decent on the MINI but it's not light for a small car and front wheel drive to boot. Was mostly a question of getting a lot of rubber on the road and the big contact patches on the Falkens did that pretty well. I also down sized to 16" (Just cleared the Wilwoods) and went really light and max width on the wheels when I went to the Falkens so that may have been part of the improvement over the two previous track sets.

My car currently has 235 width Falkens all around and that just isnt enough tire. I was at the GGLC autocross last weekend and my Elise on RA-1s was several seconds faster than the 7. Will probably move to 235/275 R888s as my street tire instead.

 

Thanks for the input and lets get together and drool over our cars. LOL

Definitely, drop me a line the next time you are in the area. Also you should definitely sign up for the GGLC autocross since its a great way to learn the car.

[powderbrake]

I just bought my Ultralite 10 days ago but after spending most of Saturday on opposite lock IMHO the Falkens have nowhere near the grip you need for the cars power. I will likely end up using R888s as my standard street/track tire.

 

I have Falkens on my S2K, and they are very good on the track and street, particularly when new. They definitely do not like being cold, and tend to loose grip when old and heat cycled ( like most tires)

 

Opposite lock is not unusual in an S2k, prticularly if you hammer it in 1st or 2nd. With my half worn Falkens, full throttle in 2nd gear will break the tires loose continuously in a straight line.

I can't comment on the hoosiers or the r888's as I have only used the falkens ( two sets). I'm not sure if you can ever get enough meat under the back end of a seven, particularly if you have high horepower.

 

Edit: On the road course and on the drag strip, the performance of other similar S2k's with slicks was much better than mine with the Falkens, even the treaded Hoosier Dot Rain tire was better, of course they are in the R25 to R70 range, and the Falkens are 200 treadwear. Softer is stickier.

Edited September 23, 2009 by powderbrake

[rnr]

I have Falkens on my S2K, and they are very good on the track and street, particularly when new. They definitely do not like being cold, and tend to loose grip when old and heat cycled ( like most tires)

 

Thanks Jerry, its possible that the Falkens I got with the car have been heatcycled which could have led to the low grip.

 

Opposite lock is not unusual in an S2k, prticularly if you hammer it in 1st or 2nd. With my half worn Falkens, full throttle in 2nd gear will break the tires loose continuously in a straight line.

I can't comment on the hoosiers or the r888's as I have only used the falkens ( two sets). I'm not sure if you can ever get enough meat under the back end of a seven, particularly if you have high horepower.

 

My newbie opinion is that this car really needs a staggered setup width wise because the back end would run out of grip well before the fronts complained. The lack of balance between front and rear was probably the bigger issue for me than the lack of grip. Do most people run wider rears or even all around?

[jimrankin]

I was told by the CHP officers who added the VIN plates to my car that if I used the 2006 motor year that with all the smog equipment I still had on the car a referee station could give me a "pass" if the tailpipe reading met the '06 standards. Don't know if they were correct or not since the DMV, after all my asking to change from '08 kit year to the '06 motor year ended up making mine a 2009 year title, thus making me have to meet the latest smog standards.

On the tire note; Already figured that Hoosiers are better than just about anything that is street rated as I think tread wear has to be 200 to get a street DOT (that's just from hearsay so don't quote me on it) and that means you have to give up quite a bit of stick. I'm probably going to do some research on wheel weights and size/offsets available and wait to hear a little more on who has had good luck with the different street tires. I'll probably give whatever street setup I do buy a track day or two and see if they seem up to it and if not just spend the money on the Hoosiers for track only. Problem with that is you have to wear them out before they get hard (both the street and the Hoosiers) and although I'd love to spend every week at the track other things like work, other toys and life in general keep me rather busy.

Thanks you everyone for your replys and hope to hear more as people open the thread.

[southwind25]

My se7en came with a set of falkens on them.. i think they are made of teflon not rubber.

 

tires will probably be my next big money item to spend on the car.

[rnr]

On the tire note; Already figured that Hoosiers are better than just about anything that is street rated as I think tread wear has to be 200 to get a street DOT (that's just from hearsay so don't quote me on it) and that means you have to give up quite a bit of stick.

 

RA-1 and R888 are both treadwear 100 and DOT street legal. RA1s are also heat cycle free and grip till the cords - I havent tried the R888s yet but they are supposed to be the same compound as the RA1s

[Mondo]

I have Falkens.. 225/275 on 17in wheels (8 & 9in widths). I can't spin mine in a straight line while in 2nd. It may be more due to the 3.90 STI rear end rather than the regular suburu 4.11. I imagine it's a bit slower as well.

But it's the right set up for a supercharger;)

[powderbrake]

My newbie opinion is that this car really needs a staggered setup width wise because the back end would run out of grip well before the fronts complained. The lack of balance between front and rear was probably the bigger issue for me than the lack of grip. Do most people run wider rears or even all around?

 

I am running the Falken Azenis RT615 225 45 X 17 in front and the 245 45 X 17 in the rear. I have 17 X 7.5 rims in front and 17X8 in the rear ( SSR Compettion wheels)

 

 

My rear axle is a 4:44 so I've got a bit more grunt in the low gears, and that is probably the reasom fo rthe wheelspin.

[Mondo]

Wow! Do you even use first gear;)

[powderbrake]

Wow! Do you even use first gear;)

Not for very long. That's why I keep an eye on my rev indicator lights.

[jimrankin]

I was looking at some of the "ratings" that different tires were being given on a couple of tire retailers sites. Seems most of them just have the customers log on and give a review so it's kind of hit or miss for what the tires have been put on and how they are used, leaving the ratings kind of useless. Thought I had found the perfect tire when I saw that Hankook Ventus R-S3's were rated a perfect 5 of 5 for dry grip and handling. Then saw that only one user had rated them, guess he liked them a LOT. LOL.

Looks like at least one site is from actual testing, not just feedback but they have a limited number of tires to choose from.

Still hope to hear from more 7 owners about their experience with different tires and hopefully someone who has had some real experience with Hoosiers. Would be great to find a street tire that was close to them.

Thanks for any input you may have. JR

[WestTexasS2K]

R25 Hoosier slicks are marked improvement over most street tires. The r25 in bias ply is very light weight in comparison to a radial tire close to 10 pounds per corner. That reduced weight translates into increased acceleration and decreases braking. The added adhesion at low temps make it a great tire for autocross. The Hoosier Radial comes in an R6 and A6 I would use the A6. The R6 is hard to get up to a good temp in a light weight car. Even after 25 min session in Mojito the R6 are at the low side of the temp range. The A6 would be better for autocross and roadcoarse in a 7. If you want to compete in the autocross in an S2k I would go with 15" R25 Hoosier. Diamond racing wheel makes an affordable decent weight steel wheel made to order for about 80.00 per wheel, or you can spend 300.00 a wheel for really light weight wheels like a Douglas wheel.

Going to a 15" wheel also lowers the car about 1" over the 17" wheel which helps too.

 

My .00002 cents worth.